Trial Discussion Thread #6 - 14.03.13-14, Day 9-10

[Interested Bystander]

A while back (last year) we discussed hearing the there were "objects" all over the lounge. We thought maybe Oscar's cups etc but I came across this today. It is one of the photos in the evidence.

http://t.co/qSj40w3BSK

I cannot tell what the mess is - possibly packets of his herbal remedy? Could that have caused the argument?

 

[minor4th]

I think made a post saying that that was incorrect.

Two in the bathroom and two in the bedroom.

Wait, where are you getting two in the bedroom now?

 

[loohoo]

Re: the damaged bedroom door. Could Reeva have damaged it by trying desperately to get out of the bedroom during a struggle? Does the door require a key that she may not have had access to? And then perhaps her only refuge was the toilet to which she had easier access to the key?

Also, I can't get over the widespread nature of the blood spatters throughout the house... including the guest bedroom, living area, etc. How did they all get there? They can't all be from OP carrying Reeva down the stairs. Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[minor4th]

A while back (last year) we discussed hearing the there were "objects" all over the lounge. We thought maybe Oscar's cups etc but I came across this today. It is one of the photos in the evidence.

http://t.co/qSj40w3BSK

I cannot tell what the mess is - possibly packets of his herbal remedy? Could that have caused the argument?

Where exactly is this lounge? I am having a hard time putting all of these pieces together in any sort of context. TIA

 

[canny]

Pictures produced in courtroom today.
Right side of bed BULLETS and Holster.

It does look like the bullet and holster is on the bed So, OP has time to load his gun with expanding 'Mushroom' killer bullets in his bedroom then went to attack the intruder, but had no time to check whether Reeva was sleeping in the same bed?

The gun found in the bathroom was cocked and ready to fire.

Cold blooded murder!

 

[james83]

A while back (last year) we discussed hearing the there were "objects" all over the lounge. We thought maybe Oscar's cups etc but I came across this today. It is one of the photos in the evidence.

http://t.co/qSj40w3BSK

I cannot tell what the mess is - possibly packets of his herbal remedy? Could that have caused the argument?

Check out this page, 3rd picture down a photo of the living room taken pre incident.

http://obehiokoawo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/police-fear-oscar-pistorius-took.html

Compare it to your photo.

Could it be the fake flowers on the floor?.

 

[loohoo]

Check out this page, 3rd picture down a photo of the living room taken pre incident.

http://obehiokoawo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/police-fear-oscar-pistorius-took.html

Could it be the fake flowers on the floor?.

Note some of the commentary in that same article from the initial investigation... could she really have been shot first in the main bedroom?

"Model Reeva was killed by 9mm pistol shots fired through the locked bathroom door at around 3am on Valentine’s Day.
She was hit in the head and body four times in total. But police now believe the first shot was fired at her in the master bedroom — hitting her hip as she fled to the bathroom.
Wounds to the top of her head suggest that as she sat doubled up in pain on the toilet she was hit three more times by bullets that ripped through the door.
Experts say she may have been covering her head protectively with her hands, which explains the bullet wounds to her finger and arm."

 

[james83]

Note some of the commentary in that same article from the initial investigation... could she really have been shot first in the main bedroom?

"Model Reeva was killed by 9mm pistol shots fired through the locked bathroom door at around 3am on Valentine’s Day.
She was hit in the head and body four times in total. But police now believe the first shot was fired at her in the master bedroom — hitting her hip as she fled to the bathroom.
Wounds to the top of her head suggest that as she sat doubled up in pain on the toilet she was hit three more times by bullets that ripped through the door.
Experts say she may have been covering her head protectively with her hands, which explains the bullet wounds to her finger and arm."

The 4 bullet holes in the toilet door are the issue with this theory, also it sounds as if her hip would have been to badly damaged for her to have mobility i believe.

 

[Cherwell]

Note some of the commentary in that same article from the initial investigation... could she really have been shot first in the main bedroom?

"Model Reeva was killed by 9mm pistol shots fired through the locked bathroom door at around 3am on Valentine’s Day.
She was hit in the head and body four times in total. But police now believe the first shot was fired at her in the master bedroom — hitting her hip as she fled to the bathroom.
Wounds to the top of her head suggest that as she sat doubled up in pain on the toilet she was hit three more times by bullets that ripped through the door.
Experts say she may have been covering her head protectively with her hands, which explains the bullet wounds to her finger and arm."

Doubtful that she could have been shot in the hip as they suggest, as according to the pathologist that was a devastating injury. She would have fallen on the spot, wouldn't have made it to the bathroom.

Snap James

 

[Carol70]

Check out this page, 3rd picture down a photo of the living room taken pre incident.

http://obehiokoawo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/police-fear-oscar-pistorius-took.html

Compare it to your photo.

Could it be the fake flowers on the floor?.

That is not a living room, it's a braai/entertainment room...alot of homes have them, lol..south Africans are very well known for their love of braai's so a lot of homes have a room in the house with an indoor braai and bar area etc.

The link you quoted looks like the lounge, sadly I can't really see the pic clearly but I can't really see a mess...I see some couches, a coffee table on some sort of animal skin type carpet.

So much for all the speculation of trophies strewn all over the house and the 4-5 cell phones laying about, looks to me like Reeva didn't even have a cell with her in the bathroom. Nothing I heard today about the state of the house contradicts OP statement but I'm going to watch myself just now. I'm not in the least surprised there was so much blood, she had a fatal head wound among others, she WAS shot 3 times. If anyone knows where I can find a link from today's proceedings, Plse paste

 

[21merc7]

If anyone knows where I can find a link from today's proceedings, Plse paste

Respectfully snipped

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-archive/

It is in 2 parts, but the first part is beneath the second part, so watch that one to begin.

 

[Carol70]

You're welcome, here's some more:

View attachment 41791

View attachment 41792

Thanks again.

So the key was on the outside still in the lock and not in fact laying on the floor in the bathroom as I heard earlier??

 

[FrancesB]

That is not a living room, it's a braai/entertainment room...alot of homes have them, lol..south Africans are very well known for their love of braai's so a lot of homes have a room in the house with an indoor braai and bar area etc.

The link you quoted looks like the lounge, sadly I can't really see the pic clearly but I can't really see a mess...I see some couches, a coffee table on some sort of animal skin type carpet.

So much for all the speculation of trophies strewn all over the house and the 4-5 cell phones laying about, looks to me like Reeva didn't even have a cell with her in the bathroom. Nothing I heard today about the state of the house contradicts OP statement but I'm going to watch myself just now. I'm not in the least surprised there was so much blood, she had a fatal head wound among others, she WAS shot 3 times. If anyone knows where I can find a link from today's proceedings, Plse paste

I agree, I think it is an animal skin rug. Google Pistorius at home, there are a couple of pics of him in his house with animal skin rugs.

I thought the phone they found in the bathroom was Ms Steenkamps. They mistakenly thought there were 2 phones in the bathroom, but there was one, which had a white cover, and the cover had come off and was next to the phone, so they mistakenly thought 2 phones. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

With regards to the blood mentioned today, it seems consistant with Pistorius carrying Ms Steenkamp down the stairs, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, the two fans that he brought back in the bedroom were not plugged in. That was reported today.

For the record, I think Pistorius is guilty and knew who he was shooting at. I don't buy his story one bit.

 

[FrancesB]

Thanks again.

So the key was on the outside still in the lock and not in fact laying on the floor in the bathroom as I heard earlier??

It was a bit ambiguous, I think at one point the key was on the floor, but at another point in the lock on Pistorius's side of the door, very confusing, and not at all clear in the pics that it was on the floor.

I have wondered if when Pistorius went back upstairs, after Dr Stipp and the Standers were there, whether he rearranged evidence, maybe he put the key in the door, but that it had not been available to Ms Steenkamp when she was trying to stay safe in the toilet? It's only the word of Pistorius that the door was locked anyway.

I have just found an article reporting on the key to toilet door as:

A key with a green tag was visible in the door, on the outside of the cubicle.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/photos-show-oscar-crime-scene-carnage-1.1660945#.UyHR_s62Fi0

I find that interesting, because in one of the bad quality pics of the key in the door, I thought it looked like it was on a keyring of some sort. Usually keys are just kept in doors with no keyring. This key was on a green tag, maybe a labelled green tag? One which wasn't usually in the door, but kept by Pistorius in a draw and labelled? My speculation.

 

[Zinn]

Does anyone remember whether OP retained one of his phones for a while after the incident? Like a day or more? I believe I recall this coming up during the bail hearing, that OP was not specifically asked to surrender the phone that was in his possession so he didn't think to offer it. It was recovered later. Was I dreaming or does anybody else remember that? TIA.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

 

[Harmony 2]

Folks: Be sure tweets are from MSM (mainstream media) and be sure to include a link
thanks!

 

[zwiebel]

He was bashing the door panel IN with a cricket bat, but it ends up like this, as though it has flown OUT into the bathroom and landed on the floor? It makes no sense.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JacaNews/status/444090078185267200/photo/1?screen_name=JacaNews

ETA: From that angle, the gap looks plenty wide enough for OP to have heaved himself through sideways and reached a key on the floor inside the toilet.

 

[canny]

Does anyone remember whether OP retained one of his phones for a while after the incident? Like a day or more? I believe I recall this coming up during the bail hearing, that OP was not specifically asked to surrender the phone that was in his possession so he didn't think to offer it. It was recovered later. Was I dreaming or does anybody else remember that? TIA.

As always, all of the above is just my opinion.

Yes, you are right.Hilton Botha had claimed the none of the phones found that night were used to call any emergency No. OP had handed over his iPhone to Roux for safe keeping on his advice.I think he conveniently forgot the pw of this particular iPhone. JMO.

 

[FrancesB]

He was bashing the door panel IN with a cricket bat, but it ends up like this, as though it has flown OUT into the bathroom and landed on the floor? It makes no sense.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JacaNews/status/444090078185267200/photo/1?screen_name=JacaNews

ETA: From that angle, the gap looks plenty wide enough for OP to have heaved himself through sideways and reached a key on the floor inside the toilet.

That's assuming Ms Steenkamp's body was not covering the key, making it out of sight of Pistorius?

I have visions of Pistorius on his stumps reaching for a key and falling forward into the cubicle, being stuck on his head, kicking his stumps around!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.dnaindia.com/sport/repor...ia-home-on-night-of-steenkamps-murder-1812287

I missed a photo of these details above (trophies).

Thank you all for your wonderful updates and posts!!! :smile:

I'm daily reading twitter Barry Bateman and Alex Crawford and fill up with your knowledge.