Trial Discussion Thread #9 - 14.03.18, Day 12

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  • #481
Just name the ringleader of the conspiracy.. once that's known every body can get back to trying to figure out why and when Oscar murdered Reeva.. we already know how he did it..

I suppose a small outline of how Oscar is situated in this conspiracy would he handy, too.. just briefly... nothing convoluted or endless.. merely where he sits in the frame.
 
  • #482
It has always struck me as odd that they really did not seem to be celebrating valentines day as it was really Feb. 13 and I don't hear any mention of plans for the real V day. No question...big fight and I would not doubt if the ex boyfriend with whom she had coffee a day or two prior may have been her date for v day.

It's a little confusing. It sounds like she was not planning on spending the nite to begin with but changed her mind and stayed - according to her message to Myers.
I also remember seeing a picture of "sweets" which Reeva had given to Oscar as a Valentines' present which also could indicate she would not be with him on the 14th?
 
  • #483
OT.....well I am out....8:34 p.m. my time....going to bed and hopefully waking up in time to hear more testimony......more facts......and of course more theories.
G'
Nite all.....pleasant dreams.

:pillowfight2: :offtobed:
 
  • #484
is the theory that in the US of A.. including Texas, that all police work is of the most exemplary and world first standard and never the slightest chance of slip up or , may god forgive me for even hinting at it, corruption and carelessness???


that is a huge claim. So huge that it beggars belief...

The fact that Roux suggests things, does not make it evidence.. it makes it theory.. When Roux puts his defence witnesses on the stand, ( lets see if he puts the picture happy MOtha on the stand )and these defence witnesses testify as to the veracity of their claims, a rational attorney would hardly make the claims ( and I only mention a few of the claims made).. of Lying, corruption, theft, conspiracy, incompetence, evasiveness, perverting the course of justice, etc.. be suspended until they are established as fact??

Until. and unless Roux has his witnesses to these claims testified to, under oath all attorneys I know would understand the difference between an established fact, and a theory, a supposition and a suggestion.. .

Yup.....and this is why I'm glad that this trial does not have a jury. The Judge won't be swayed by suggestions.
 
  • #485
if that's too secret. could I just know if this conspiring gang of random people have planned this to get Oscar done for murder or free as a bird?? I haven't quite figured that bit out, as yet..

The theory so far is.. once the shooting is done, and Oscar claims he thought she was an intruder, the police and neighbors then concoct a story that casts doubt on this claim of Oscars.. then its presented so badly, and investigated so badly, so relentlessly, that all are branded collaborators and liars, thieves etc.. so the judge throws the case out of court and Oscar returns to his gun happy days back at Silverwoods..

was this the plan at the beginning??? to have Oscar charged with Pre meditated murder, go thru the trial, as a civic duty to expose police and private citizen corruption??

or did the charge and the trial be the unforeseen and unexpected factor of a perfect plan that went pear shaped??

curious minds want to know.
 
  • #486
Well, as you say the police are so incompetent, anybody could have got in, couldn't they? :)

True - who knows how many people had access to the crime scene?
 
  • #487
For the defence to claim a cover-up or conspiracy there has to be an associated reason or story put forward. This works exactly the same for the prosecution. To obtain conviction they will be expected to re-create what happened before and after the shooting of RS. They will be expected to provide beyond reasonable doubt that this was not an accident. It's just not good enough for anybody to suggest conspiracy without reason, that's no different to simply saying 'I think he did it'.

I've seen very little evidence presented by Roux that suggests anything more than procedural errors. Procedural errors are made in many murder cases, however what really matters is whether those procedural errors have such an impact that they would not offer the accused a fair trial.


If we look at some of the errors we've seen already can we honestly say that these were made to conspire towards the conviction of OP? Most of these relate to evidence moved out of necessity to be photographed, or removed for forensic purposes, which is quite normal procedure. I would go as far as to suggest that a couple of errors actually work in favour of OP.


Position of flip-flops - despite being moved they do not appear to have been moved from one side of the bed to the other. The only evidence advantage for conspiracy theorists would be for somebody to move them to another side, attempting to make it look like the accused had lied about which side he slept on. The photographs regarding this have remained consistent.


Forensics handled gun without gloves - quite a major error this one. Who does that benefit? Certainly not anyone hoping to conspire. OP has admitted he handled the gun and fired - he's already done a big part of the forensic work himself. If you are being as selective about your photo album as Roux suggests, you'd remove that photograph straight away.


Watch/es missing - Again, if you were conspiring to charge OP with murder, how does this help your case? A conspiracy that is so professional and runs so deep, yet it fails to notice a couple of watches stolen at the crime scene?


Roux appears to be conforming the old adage, 'when the facts aren't on your side, you argue the law', hence his desire to attack the credibility of every single witness. Lawyers often revert to this when they don't feel they have a credible story from the accused.


I think the blood towards the far wall of the bedroom will be the key to unlock this whole incident. If the analysis comes back as Reeva's there will be a huge hole in OP’s story and I can’t see that Roux will have any room for manoeuvre.


OP’s affidavit in it’s most basic form is: went to bathroom with gun, shot four times, went back to bedroom, went back to bathroom, went back to bedroom, went back to bathroom. Only after all this to-ing and fro-ing does he break down the bathroom door, and approaches Reeva. This is the first opportunity he has to be covered in Reeva's blood, and he carries her downstairs. There should be absolutely none of Reevas blood on the far wall of the bedroom.


:justice:

BBM

Awesome post! ITA!

I was trying to remember that old legal adage last night - TY for bringing it up!

Here is another version I found:

If the facts are against you, hammer the law. If the law is against you, hammer the facts. If the facts and the law are against you, hammer opposing counsel.

I think this is what Roux is doing.
 
  • #488
Minor, I agree with you.. OP could be convicted of manslaughter if a USA trial, but not premeditated murder partially because of the incompetent police work. I think some are covering for each other's mistakes...not a conspiracy! Sad, because the outcome might be different. Then again, who knows. People in SA must be upset with their police force in this case. Reeva deserves better. MOO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
  • #489
She was hit on the chest but it didn't enter her body?

How peculiar. That wasn't mentioned in the autopsy evidence, was it? Although someone else did mention a hole in her vest top.

Remember there was an air gun outside the bedroom door. The air gun could cause a non-penetrating bruise.
 
  • #490
“Hi guys, I’m too tired. It’s too far to drive. I’m sleeping at Oscar’s tonight. See you tomorrow,” she wrote.

http://dailyentertainmentnews.com/sports/cecil-myers-is-reeva-steenkamps-second-dad-photos/

Wish we knew the time that text was sent. Then there's always the possibility that that it was Oscar himself who sent the text message from reeva's phone. I am definitely not saying it was, just arother scenario

Also, the jeans outside the window have me baffled. I can't for the life of me imagine how if they were thrown out the window, that they could have landed so neat and perfectly "laid out". I think there was an huge argument, and he was not going to let her leave. I think OP took them out there himself, and layed them there. He was NOT going to let her get dressed and leave. But by throwing them out the window to me anyway, there is no way they landed in that position. Unless his non barking watch dogs are neat freaks too, and straightened them out. :wink:
 
  • #491
  • #492
It has always struck me as odd that they really did not seem to be celebrating valentines day as it was really Feb. 13 and I don't hear any mention of plans for the real V day. No question...big fight and I would not doubt if the ex boyfriend with whom she had coffee a day or two prior may have been her date for v day.
You make a very good point. Considering OP's past incidents of rage and impulsiveness, if after a bitter argument about this man she locked herself in the bathroom and refused to engage with him further, his rage could easily have escalated to firing through the door.

I don't know if the original suspicions police had about OP's steroid use were unfounded or not, but that would be a huge factor in rage escalation as well.
 
  • #493
Can anyone tell me what time court starts for us in the US EST? TIA ~
 
  • #494
To impeach the witness' credibility. This was not an attempt to confuse the witness, it was a confrontation of the witness with a sworn statement and police photographs that directly contradict his testimony. The judge made the right ruling - she admitted them conditionally and for impeachment purposes.

Perfectly stated.
Can't fathom a much better method of impeaching testimony, then contradicting photographs.


Sent from my KFTHWI
 
  • #495
  • #496
  • #497
  • #498
Honestly I can really get into a trial and was set to do so here despite the time problems but this trial could win a prize for the most boring trial ever!!! Maybe I see it that way because to me it is such a clear cut case of murder and he did it...just simple. You know it is moving way too slow when CourtChatter can sum the whole day up so briefly and really include the highpoints (and relevant ones) in a few paragraphs.

I've looked at court chatter a few times, hoping to glean additional info I may have missed after watching the trial. I've found the content to be somewhat lacking, and sometimes wonder if the trial summary is compiled from various MSM sites, rather than from actually watching the trial (especially since this trial is broadcast live in the middle of the night US time, which would make it difficult for anyone to cover this trial as well as all the other cases/trials).

If I wasn't able to watch the trial each night, and was depending on that site to fully inform me as to the daily court goings-on, I'd have a totally different picture of the actual testimony and evidence. Needless to say, it's not my go-to site when looking for in-depth info on this trial.

I mean no offense at all to the blogger of that site. She covers many cases and trials, so I'm sure time is a factor that affects the coverage of each trial.
 
  • #499
BBM

Awesome post! ITA!

I was trying to remember that old legal adage last night - TY for bringing it up!

Here is another version I found:

If the facts are against you, hammer the law. If the law is against you, hammer the facts. If the facts and the law are against you, hammer opposing counsel.

I think this is what Roux is doing.

:goodpost:
 
  • #500
I've looked at court chatter a few times, hoping to glean additional info I may have missed after watching the trial. I've found the content to be somewhat lacking, and sometimes wonder if the trial summary is compiled from various MSM sites, rather than from actually watching the trial (especially since this trial is broadcast live in the middle of the night US time, which would make it difficult for anyone to cover this trial as well as all the other cases/trials).

If I wasn't able to watch the trial each night, and was depending on that site to fully inform me as to the daily court goings-on, I'd have a totally different picture of the actual testimony and evidence. Needless to say, it's not my go-to site when looking for in-depth info on this trial.

I mean no offense at all to the blogger of that site. She covers many cases and trials, so I'm sure time is a factor that affects the coverage of each trial.

I just checked out Court Chatter today, after hearing about it here. Their live feed is the SABC feed which you can stream directly. And, the archive is updated fast. https://www.youtube.com/user/sabcdigitalnews

WAT has lots of articles on all aspects of the case. http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/pistorius-trial-who-are-the-witnesses/ http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-stream/
 
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