Trial Discussion Thread #9 - 14.03.18, Day 12

[Cherwell]

It's going to get very technical, so for the challenged at understanding this evidence the photos are essential.

Is there anywhere where we can see any or all of the photos shown in court?

 

[zwiebel]

Surely a bullet can't go through her clothes and then deflect off her body only leaving a bruise?

Wondering if the air gun played a role.

Possibly a ricochet off a ricochet would do it.

Or maybe she was hit against something/with something before she ever reached the toilet? Maybe the chest/buttock bruises are the reason Reeva ran (airpistol shots even?) and locking herself in the toilet and screaming mortified someone so much, they shot her dead.....

 

[04009margaret]

Is it too early to float the concept of Oscar actually testifying?? I know on his bail aff he vowed and determined that he would, but he always has the out not to..

Roux is setting it up for him to testify. A legal expert on the Oscar Trial radio show said that he can't testify unless his advocate puts his story before witnesses.

 

[LemonMousse]

Woo, I totally missed this Laying in OP's garden? Where they thrown out the window? I am confused. Where these jeans in the crime scene pictures?

Yes - during Nel's initial questioning of the photographer. No one commented on them, just said what number picture it was. I noticed and thought it odd.

They are also visible in the pic of the bathroom window where the dog is seen - he's standing right in front of them.

Hope they are not going to claim that the dog put them there - most dogs aren't that neat!

They look like ladies to me too - legs are very slim, plus it looks like a thin white belt through the loops at the top.

 

[04009margaret]

Ha.. I see that Courtney Love has found the missing Malaysian airways plane.. she has come up with co ordinates and all. maybe she can find Oscars watch..

Lol, that's as crazy as the Gilligan's Island photo doing the rounds

 

[zwiebel]

Yes - during Nel's initial questioning of the photographer. No one commented on them, just said what number picture it was. I noticed and thought it odd.

They are also visible in the pic of the bathroom window where the dog is seen - he's standing right in front of them.

Hope they are not going to claim that the dog put them there - most dogs aren't that neat!

They look like ladies to me too - legs are very slim, plus it looks like a thin white belt through the loops at the top.

Perhaps Reeva had snatched up her jeans from the bedroom after a row and decided to get dressed in the bathroom and go home, and OP flung them out of the window to stop her putting them on?

 

[04009margaret]

Is there anywhere where we can see any or all of the photos shown in court
UK media is a good source for some, but not all. I think there's been too many the last few days & they've only been putting the main photos in their coverage

 

[zwiebel]

If there had been a row in the bathroom where Reeva's jeans went out of the window, I can imagine that is where OP damaged his leg too - kicking the bath panel in fury.

 

[soozieqtips]

Anyone know if the phone service providers will be testifying about the contents of calls that night? Like what was actually said in OP's call to Netcare, and what they advised him to do? In the UK, we generally record emergency calls, so I was wondering if SA do the same. Even though Roux said he has proof of the Netcare call, the content of the call is very important as it will show whether OP downplayed Reeva's injuries (knowing she was already dead or close to dead) and will prove one way or another what was actually said in that call. If OP is lying about that, surely the judge would want to know why.

 

[LemonMousse]

Perhaps Reeva had snatched up her jeans from the bedroom after a row and decided to get dressed in the bathroom and go home, and OP flung them out of the window to stop her putting them on?

Yes - maybe locking the bedroom door too.

 

[G.bng]

to be fair to Vermulen.. no one could demonstrate hitting the door without they , themselves removing their own legs in front of the court for the purposes of the demo.

Vermulen tried it on his knees, but those pesky lower tibulas wtih feet attached jutted out.

I thought Vermulen had a small padded stool of around 20cm high to kneel on as I certainly saw it in pics in front of the door. At least I assumed it was for him to kneel on when explaining the bat hits because OP was amputated at ankle height not at knee height so he has a good part of the lower leg still present to raise his height if standing on his stumps when he shot.

 

[minor4th]

BBM: INCLUDING Oscar's sister Aimee and Clarice Standar, no?

Yes. I can't imagine why they were allowed in unless it was after the crime scene was released.

 

[minor4th]

[modsnip]

Two cameras - three possibilities:

Van Stadt's time is wrong
Motha's time is wrong
Both camera times were wrong

An equal chance of Motha making the mistake as van Stadt - but you've decided it was van Stadt. Why? That's confirmation bias.

Are we going to hear from Motha? Is he going to tell us that he was with van Stadt as they were taking photos? If not, why not? This would be important evidence - cameras are merely tools, it's the actions of the people that matter. If Roux is planning on this, why doesn't Nel know all about it?

4th possibility: Both camera times are right and someone is covering for someone else

 

[minor4th]

Why would his superiors instruct him to lie?

Because they contaminated the crime scene but don't want that to be known

 

[minor4th]

Who can judge who is missing the point? IMBW, but we may all be missing it as I get the feeling that in the end the judge may not be able to determine this case on forensics, ballistics, photos, what witnesses heard or saw, etc. but only on the SA laws in respect of the use of deadly force, i.e. whether it was reasonable for OP to shoot 4 times blindly through a door. And SA law runs more on the lines of the UK in respect of guns and self defence, so even if in countries such as the US, in many states at least, it can be considered reasonable to use deadly force just on the belief of a threat, e.g. the Japanese student shot when going to a door to ask the way, in other countries it is not, and don't forget OP's answer on his gun licence questionnaire:



and OP very clearly didn't "know" either !

You may be absolutely right about that. When you take out all of the questionable aspects and disputed evidence - what are you left with? By OP's own statement she could find him guilty of culpable homicide.

 

[Trooper]

I really think its time to lay out the conspiracy in full, Minor..its been hints for weeks, now.... maybe it could start off small... like..

(a).. who benefits from the conspiracy??

(b) who pays for the conspiracy??

and..

(c).... who is actually running this conspiracy as I type??

 

[turaj]

Well tune in today with session one march 18...same old ...same old...some guy in trenchcoat (must be cold in there) droning on with Roux...only after they decide they are going to have to go without "tea" today because no one was prepared. Frankly at this rate this trial may go all summer. CourtChatter does a nice two or three paragraph summary of each day which really captures what has happened missing little. I would think the state has something better than this.

 

[LemonMousse]

4th possibility: Both camera times are right and someone is covering for someone else

The least likely possibility (three out of the four suggest mistake rather than deceit), but the one you've personally decided to go with?

Again, that's confirmation bias, the most common of all logical fallacies.

You keep saying (rightly) that it's all about the evidence, and yet you've decided, in the basis of precisely none, that this officer is a liar and involved in wholesale cover up.

As Nel pointed out, if both photographers were in the hall at the same time as Roux asserted, then they should be in each other's photos. They weren't.

 

[Zinn]

Catching up on today's testimony. Haven't read through everything here, so forgive me if this has already been posted. A courtroom reporter posted testimony from ballistics person regarding height of bullet holes from floor: http://twitter.com/barrybateman/status/445906964187717632

 

[foxbluff]

Given the amount of double amputees there are in the world today, I'm surprised they never used one for their demonstrations.

I know. And they have one sitting right there in CT.