Trial Discussion Thread #9 - 14.03.18, Day 12

[kittychi]

Thank you to all of you who have provided a play by play of another trial day! Honorable mention to Zwiebel. Informative and entertaining!

I know I speak for others too, when I tell you all that it is very much appreciated!


:gthanks::yourock: :cheer:

 

[LemonMousse]

I agree with this too, and while I'm playing somewhat of a devil's advocate on the evidence - I'm not at all convinced that Oscar's version is true or that there wasn't a fight leading into the shooting.

By and large, I think you are right.

The are two issues - did he do it (knowing it was Reeva behind the door) and can the prosecution prove he did beyond a reasonable doubt.

It pains me to say it, but on current evidence, I don't think they can. I think Roux IS raising doubt but I don't think he's proving corruption, lying and deceit. He's just using procedural errors of a fairly typical type and highlighting them so completely that they look more suspicious than they are. This is the mark of a very, very good defence attorney - and pretty much what happened in the OJ case.

We've had some big trials in the UK recently (usually involving children, unfortunately) and in every case the forensic and technical evidence was picked apart atom by atom and even the smallest of mistakes focused on. No suggestion of dishonesty - it's just that the only science that's exact is mathematics, everything else is at the mercy of human beings who make mistakes all the time.

Pre-meditated or not, I truly hope the judge comes down very hard on him for what he's admitted to - shooting a supposed intruder that he didn't see using bullets that are designed to kill. This, if nothing else, deserves the full 15 years IMO.

 

[Interested Bystander]

At the end of the day, regardless of what forensics do/say, OP has admitted to killing someone unseen by firing four shots through a closed door. 4 Shots, IMO, shows intention to kill.

WhoopWhoop have archived videos of each day for those who may want to watch the proceedings again. Today's runs for something over two hours - 2 hours, 9 mins 47 seconds to be precise and you can find it here:-

http://whoopwhoop.tv/pistoriusday12.htm

 

[minor4th]

On March 17, during direct exam, Van Staden says the following:

Nel: Who decided to use this particular method? (of compiling albums by room)

VS: I did.

Nel: In compiling your album, did you consult with anybody?

VS: No. ​

On March 18 during cross examination, Van Staden says:

Roux: Who decided to select the photos that must go into the album?

VS: I did, Mi'Lady, upon consultation with Colonel Vermuelen who indicated as to which photos he would like to be in the photo album

(Roux whips out a photo of the cricket bat on an upper mark on the door that Van Staden apparently does not have in his album)

Roux: asks why those photos did not make it into album or Vermuelen report)

VS: I can't determine why Col Vermuelen thought a photo was important to put in the album

Roux: I thought you compiled this album

VS: Mi'Lady, as I testified, I am the one who compiled this album and I'm also the one who chose the photos upon consultation with Col Vermeulen in order for him to choose the photos which he deemed to be important in compiling the album
​

Links:
Oscar Pistorius Trial: Monday 17 March 2014, Session 3 - YouTube
Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 18 March 2014, Session 2 - YouTube

 

[HauntsForHope]

"After the Justice Department announced she would hear the Pistorius case, the media have focused attention on two judgments in which she handed down maximum sentences to men convicted of violence against women.

The Moyo case was one of these. Delivered in May last year, it saw Masipa hand down a 252-year sentence she said was intended to serve as a deterrent."


http://www.jacarandafm.com/post/audio-profile-on-judge-thokozile-matilda-masipa/

 

[minor4th]

Does anyone know if there is video or audio or transcript of the bail hearing? TIA

 

[HauntsForHope]

Does anyone know if there is video or audio or transcript of the bail hearing? TIA

Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JZB3pwgxvY

Defense Bail Hearing Statement Transcript

http://www.3news.co.nz/FULL-TRANSCR...ement/tabid/417/articleID/287516/Default.aspx

 

[minor4th]

Audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JZB3pwgxvY

Defense Bail Hearing Statement Transcript

http://www.3news.co.nz/FULL-TRANSCR...ement/tabid/417/articleID/287516/Default.aspx

I think that is just the judge's ruling and explanation. Is there anything for the bail hearing itself and the witness testimony?

 

[foxbluff]

Well tune in today with session one march 18...same old ...same old...some guy in trenchcoat (must be cold in there) droning on with Roux...only after they decide they are going to have to go without "tea" today because no one was prepared. Frankly at this rate this trial may go all summer. CourtChatter does a nice two or three paragraph summary of each day which really captures what has happened missing little. I would think the state has something better than this.

turaj, thank you so much for mentioning this site. It is of particular interest to me as I'm looking for text, due to my s-l-o-w dial-up ISP not being able to stream videos. (Yes, I'm that one who still has dial-up!)

Just FYI to all, this is CourtChatter's recap from yesterday... ETA or is it today? Date above recap says Tuesday March 18??? I'm confused...lol

http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/03/oscar-pistorius-day-12-recap-more.html

 

[Val1]

[modsnip]

I made general comment about police photographers... meaning either or both would ASSURE their camera time was set correctly. I don't think either would have wrong time.

I haven't read through the whole thread yet and gave up watching the proceedings this am(3am my time) so I apologize if this has been raised in regards to these supposed overlapping photos, but, has it been confirmed if these photos were even taken on the same day? I recall on the first week of the trial when Nell was questioning something that there was a comment made on camera to his team that the date of the photo/s in question was actually timestamped from a totally different day/month so he dropped the objection. I'll try to find it.

 

[Val1]

Perhaps Reeva had snatched up her jeans from the bedroom after a row and decided to get dressed in the bathroom and go home, and OP flung them out of the window to stop her putting them on?

Or, RS knew she was in big trouble and threw them out the window hoping the dogs would start barking and security would come and investigate and save her?

 

[BritsKate]

Stumps.

He needed measurements from OP.

Height of OP 184cm with legs
155cm without
shoulder level with 156cm
without 123cm

elbow level 96cm without legs
66cm shoulder to fingertip length as if he is holding a firearm

Nel wants an adjournment. Granted.

Morning 9.30.

ETA I missed one. Just before the length of arm measurement. What was that?

Think I finally found it. Elbow height, with prostheses, is
126cm.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[james83]

If i can just go back to Oscar's affidavit for a second

he was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me only to open it the next day.


Why would she give him the present and tell him not to open it till the next day?
Why not just give it to him the next day?.
That to me sound's like a comment you make when you are not going to see that person the next day, it suggest's to me that if that is what she said, she wasn't planning to stay the night.
Bear in mind that at this point according to Oscar they had already established that they were staying in together and not going out with friends.

 

[Really?]

Oh, this is the handsome guy I've been admiring for two weeks. Lol

LOL, perhaps this is why MiLady wanted to procede.......eye candy and such

 

[minor4th]

turaj, thank you so much for mentioning this site. It is of particular interest to me as I'm looking for text, due to my s-l-o-w dial-up ISP not being able to stream videos. (Yes, I'm that one who still has dial-up!)

Just FYI to all, this is CourtChatter's recap from yesterday... ETA or is it today? Date above recap says Tuesday March 18??? I'm confused...lol

http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/03/oscar-pistorius-day-12-recap-more.html

These are very good and concise summaries. I believe it is from today's testimony

 

[zwiebel]

Spooky spooky. I was deeply engrossed in catching up with a deadline on something at my desk, and suddenly the Telegraph link which remained stubbornly crashed throughout today's hearing, blared into life for a few seconds.

Mr Roux's voice came at me from out of nowhere and I nearly fell off my chair. Then all fell silent again. I've no idea what happened.......

I see there is lots of interesting info being posted here. I'm going to rush my work so I can catch up. Just needed to share my little haunting.....

 

[soozieqtips]

If i can just go back to Oscar's affidavit for a second

he was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine's Day but asked me only to open it the next day.


Why would she give him the present and tell him not to open it till the next day?
Why not just give it to him the next day?.
That to me sound's like a comment you make when you are not going to see that person the next day, it suggest's to me that if that is what she said, she wasn't planning to stay the night.
Bear in mind that at this point according to Oscar they had already established that they were staying in together and not going out with friends.

BBM - she wasn't planning to stay the night. She sent a text later that evening to say it was too late to drive home so she was going stay over.

 

[Val1]

BBM - she wasn't planning to stay the night. She sent a text later that evening to say it was too late to drive home so she was going stay over.

Let me raise another theory, that RS did not send that text and that perhaps the reason OP couldn't remember the password for a certain cellphone was because it wasn't his?

 

[Really?]

Pic of Jeans laying in OP's garden. They sure look like a female's to me.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news

ETA: Do we know if Reeva was wearing jeans or her shorts when she arrived?

How weird is that?....jeans....lying in the garden........under the bathroom window?

No doubt part the the "argument" heard.....domestics (DV) might contain things being thrown out of windows.

 

[Really?]

4th possibility: Both camera times are right and someone is covering for someone else

Ha......:floorlaugh:

possible ....yes

probable.....no