Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[MeeBee]

So the defense handed over OP's ID and password to the press? Hmmm, who is it that is supposedly leaking info to the press again?

Well, if the iPhone is still in the state's possession, then it's possible it might have been someone on the state's side leaking information since the article implies they tried the password themselves and it worked. If it was the DT, then I'd imagine it's to combat all the incorrect and leaked info coming from the other side.

 

[Viper]

BBM: That's not what it says, viper.

"However, Pistorius’s lawyer Brian Webber says this is not true and presented eNCA with a letter sent to prosecutor Gerrie Nel in June last year, containing Pistorius’s iTunes ID and password.

While the National Prosecuting Authority won’t formally comment on this, investigators have told us the password is incorrect.

However, when eNCA tried using the password it clearly worked. All it appears to reveal is that Oscar Pistorius likes legal TV dramas, cello concertos and dance music."

It's a he said/she said.

Investigators say it was incorrect, the reporters says it works and have proof OP provided the password in June of last year.

If you snip a quoted article it is common courtesy and may be a forum rule that you say so in your post. That keeps people from intentionally causing confusion to better their argument.

Here from your article, not snipped:

Quote:
"While the National Prosecuting Authority won’t formally comment on this, investigators have told us the password is incorrect.

However, when eNCA tried using the password it clearly worked. All it appears to reveal is that Oscar Pistorius likes legal TV dramas, cello concertos and dance music."

So as I said previously, the article said OP gave the password, the password he gave was incorrect, but the password worked. Rubbish article.

 

[MeeBee]

If you snip a quoted article it is common courtesy and may be a forum rule that you say so in your post. That keeps people from intentionally causing confusion to better their argument.

Here from your article, not snipped:

Quote:
"While the National Prosecuting Authority won’t formally comment on this, investigators have told us the password is incorrect.

However, when eNCA tried using the password it clearly worked. All it appears to reveal is that Oscar Pistorius likes legal TV dramas, cello concertos and dance music."

So as I said previously, the article said OP gave the password, the password he gave was incorrect, but the password worked. Rubbish article.

Yes, viper I snipped the important information. The snipped bit you just posted is the same snipped bit I posted.

The point is that when these investigators tell the press that the password was incorrect, that it is perhaps not the truth because the reporters of this piece tried the password themselves it worked. Your leading people to believe the writer of the article says it didn't work and then says it did all in one breath. That is not true. They are attributing the bit about the password not working to investigators, they are not saying it themselves. They are skeptical of investigators saying this because they tried the password and it worked.

 

[Viper]

Yes, viper I snipped the important information. You're being misleading.

The point is that when these investigators tell the press that the password was incorrect, that it is perhaps not the truth because the reporters of this piece tried the password themselves it worked. Your leading people to believe the writer of the article says it didn't work and then says it did all in one breath. That is not true. They are attributing the bit about the password not working to investigators, they are not saying it themselves. They are skeptical of investigators saying this because they tried the password and it worked.

BIB No, that is incorrect. That much is crystal clear!

As for the rest. I am not following you at all.

 

[TorisMom003]

Well, if the iPhone is still in the state's possession, then it's possible it might have been someone on the state's side leaking information since the article implies they tried the password themselves and it worked. If it was the DT, then I'd imagine it's to combat all the incorrect and leaked info coming from the other side.

From the article that was posted concerning the media trying the password and it working:

"However, Pistorius’s lawyer Brian Webber says this is not true and presented eNCA with a letter sent to prosecutor Gerrie Nel in June last year, containing Pistorius’s iTunes ID and password."

That paragraph states that one of OP's lawyers is the one that gave a letter containing the ID and password to the media.

So again, who leaked it to the media?

 

[BritsKate]

Thanks so much for taking the time to give such a detailed explanation . I have been trying to get my head around the legal aspects a bit more instead of getting distracted by some of things I have personally found to be implausible about his statement .
I was re reading the indictment again today and keep being drawn to the part where the prosecution basically say it doesn't matter whether he thought it was Reeva or not ie error in persona because it is still murder anyway because he shot to kill a person .
Just out of interest how do you think the prosecution have done so far in the case in establishing the basic murder charge that OP will now need to defend and justify.

:seeya:

You're very welcome. Opinion only: I believe the State has proven a case for murder. If Oscar intended to kill Reeva, it's murder. If he meant to kill an intruder, it's murder. If he never intended to kill anyone, but should have foreseen shooting four bullets into a closed door could result in someone's death, it's still murder.

MOO

 

[Val1]

I enjoyed this clip... a happy pair of babblers, but oddly, they left out, and I am wondering if they even noticed, the Assessors, or know what their role is ...

I wonder what they make of this... I found it interesting.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/208363280/Pistorius-Documents

 

[MeeBee]

From the article that was posted concerning the media trying the password and it working:

"However, Pistorius’s lawyer Brian Webber says this is not true and presented eNCA with a letter sent to prosecutor Gerrie Nel in June last year, containing Pistorius’s iTunes ID and password."

That paragraph states that one of OP's lawyers is the one that gave a letter containing the ID and password to the media.

So again, who leaked it to the media?

Yes, his lawyer Brian Webber gave the reporter a letter showing that OP gave the password to the prosecutors last year. He is named.

The rest isn't clear and the writer hasn't made it clear. The leaked info about OP not giving the password over had to have been leaked by the investigators or someone close to the case.

But in this case, it doesn't appear anything was leaked. The reporters appear to have done their due diligence and probably met with someone for their story who gave them the phone and the password to try. Who could have done that if the phone is still with the prosecution team?

 

[MeeBee]

BIB No, that is incorrect. That much is crystal clear!

As for the rest. I am not following you at all.

I've edited my post viper. Maybe you're not being misleading, maybe you genuinely don't understand...

 

[Trooper]

one thing the defence never ever leaked at any time, and kept totally silent about was Oscar's talented ways with the human voice..


they sure kept that one under wraps..


and oddly, the defence never leaked the info that in the Silverwoods estate, right where Oscar resides, there are actually people who on a regular basis mistake a males voice for a womans voice.

5 of em!!.. all at the same time.

 

[Viper]

I've edited my post viper. Maybe you're not being misleading, maybe you genuinely don't understand...

I understand what I was commenting on. From your unedited post:

"Originally Posted by MeeBee
Yes, viper I snipped the important information."

That wraps it up for me.

 

[TorisMom003]

Yes, his lawyer Brian Webber gave the reporter a letter showing that OP gave the password to the prosecutors last year. He is named.

The rest isn't clear and the writer hasn't made it clear. The leaked info about OP not giving the password over had to have been leaked by the investigators or someone close to the case.

But in this case, it doesn't appear anything was leaked. The reporters appear to have done their due diligence and probably met with someone for their story who gave them the phone and the password to try. Who could have done that if the phone is still with the prosecution team?

With iTunes you do not need the actual device to log into your account. I can log into both of my daughters iTunes from my laptop even though the iTunes accounts are set up for their iPod and iPhone. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from then. The State has not given anyone, other OP and/or his defense perhaps, the actual phone. The defense handed over OP's ID name and password to OP's iTunes account enabling the media to log into OP's account.

 

[MeeBee]

I understand what I was commenting on. From your unedited post:

"Originally Posted by MeeBee
Yes, viper I snipped the important information."

That wraps it up for me.

Why is that?

I was accused of being misleading somehow by snipping the article and leaving out information. Yet when yourself provided a snipped portion, it was the exact same portion that I snipped. The exact same one. I implore you to go back and look at the post to see and to check the editing history, just in case.

So how exactly was I being misleading when I snipped from the article the exact same portion you snipped?

 

[MeeBee]

With iTunes you do not need the actual device to log into your account. I can log into both of my daughters iTunes from my laptop even though the iTunes accounts are set up for their iPod and iPhone. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from then. The State has not given anyone, other OP and/or his defense perhaps, the actual phone. The defense handed over OP's ID name and password to OP's iTunes account enabling the media to log into OP's account.

Good point. That is true.

 

[TorisMom003]

It is also the defense's position that the State was trying to log into OP's iTunes account. From what I remember it is the State's position that they were trying to log into the phone itself or the WhatsApp (I think that is the correct word) and did not have the proper password because OP claimed to have forgotten it.

I sincerely doubt that the State would spend the time and money to send their investigators here to the US to unlock an iTunes account. That makes no sense.

MOO

ETA: I have tried to watch the video of court for the beginning of the investigators testimony that dealt with the phones but can not find one that has sound on it.

 

[Trooper]

what we should have, is a poll before the defence lay their case on the table..


(a) has Roux eradicated the Screaming woman from all involvement with the death of Reeva Steenkamp.. and

(b) has this Screaming Woman been replaced unarguably with Oscar Screaming?


keeping in mind, that any witnesses to come will be Defence witnesses.. Roux wont be cross-examining them, just as Nel didn't cross examine the State witnesses..

Roux will be leading them on to tell the story, and once he's done that, he has to step back and leave them in the hands of Nel as cross examiner..

All Roux can do from now on, is object during cross examination. and he has to have solid legal foundation, just as Nel had to have to make any objection..

so (a) yes/no

and (b) yes/no

 

[MeeBee]

It is also the defense's position that the State was trying to log into OP's iTunes account. From what I remember it is the State's position that they were trying to log into the phone itself or the WhatsApp (I think that is the correct word) and did not have the proper password because OP claimed to have forgotten it.

I sincerely doubt that the State would spend the time and money to send their investigators here to the US to unlock an iTunes account. That makes no sense.

MOO

Well, we'll probably find out soon enough. You'd think if that is what happened then the state would have made a stink about it in their CIC. It would certainly show a consciousness of guilt on OP's part. Something is not coming together.

There's always the possibility that the state tried the password provided without realizing the first letter must be capitalized and drew the conclusion that the password was incorrect. But then it's a little goofy to run to the press claiming OP lied when they could have just asked OP for specification.

If Roux provides this same letter to prove OP did give the state the password last year and Nel does not object, claiming he received no such letter, for instance, then my red flag will definitely go up.

 

[TorisMom003]

Trooper,

A - No
B - No

IMO of course

 

[BritsKate]

Just a theory on the iPhone...apple ID/password is different to a four digit pin number usually required to unlock the phone itself. Oscar provided the former but apparently forgot the latter. It's likely the apple ID only leads to partial information anyway - like apps downloaded or iTunes history. Texts likely wouldn't be saved, independent of the device, unless the iPhone was backed up to iCloud. (I think some people may be confusing password with pin, though.)

http://mybroadband.co.za/news/general/96849-hurdles-in-cracking-pistorius-iphone-code-report.html

 

[TorisMom003]

Well, we'll probably find out soon enough. You'd think if that is what happened then the state would have made a stink about it in their CIC. It would certainly show a consciousness of guilt on OP's part. Something is not coming together.

There's always the possibility that the state tried the password provided without realizing the first letter must be capitalized and drew the conclusion that the password was incorrect. But then it's a little goofy to run to the press claiming OP lied when they could have just asked OP for specification.

If Roux provides this same letter to prove OP did give the state the password last year and Nel does not object, claiming he received no such letter, for instance, then my red flag will definitely go up.

After handing this letter over to the press, the defense better bring it up in court. If they don't then that tells me that they simply wanted to smear the State with false information to the media and put out there that OP simply enjoys things on iTunes that normal, everyday people do.

MOO