Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[wb180]

As a member of the public, the only "tainting the public against OP" I can see is really from the OP himself and lots of fan women who keep thinking OP isn't guilty and should walk free.

 

[Viper]

I am still in the dark about why OP killed Reeva without seeing her, without seeing her face. I mean he killed a woman "in a box." At any point while Reeva was locked in the WC OP could have broken through and done whatever, but he did not, and instead he chose to kill her in a box without seeing her face. That really bothers me...

 

[BritsKate]

I am still in the dark about why OP killed Reeva without seeing her, without seeing her face. I mean he killed a woman "in a box." At any point while Reeva was locked in the WC OP could have broken through and done whatever, but he did not, and instead he chose to kill her in a box without seeing her face. That really bothers me...

I don't believe that was intentional - not looking at her. My theory is, after he was beating on the door trying to get her to come out on her own, she said she was going to call Myers, the police, etc.

I think his sole intent was stopping her from completing that call.

As for her face - there's a piece of me that's bothered more by murderers who can spend years sleeping next to their spouse in the same bed and manually strangle, stab, suffocate, or beat them to death. How do you look someone in the eyes while you're stealing their life away? And in too many cases the life of an unborn baby as well? It defies humanity itself. (The Coleman case about did me in. )

Not to discount the brutality of Reeva's death, of course. I truly do believe she knew exactly who was shooting at her and unfortunately, I think she knew she would die at his hands.

 

[04009margaret]

it would be a long stretch to claim that Oscar was only paranoid in regard to sounds translating into an imminent attack on his person and Reeva's on one occasion.. and on the one occasion where his guest uses the toilet at exactly the same time as a 'sound ' is heard...


that isn't how paranoia works..

His actions are the complete opposite of genuine paranoia. Having a close family member who has suffered from paranoia for 20+ years I can speak from experience. I have spent many years surrounded by others who also suffer from the same debilitating disease, when my family member has been hospitalized during an event. When a genuine sufferer fears that someone is after them or there is a threat to their safety, they cower from the threat, they would never confront the threat or seek it out.

 

[sorrell skye]

I understand that and know they are not the same thing. It seems there are two different issues that are getting mixed up. Nel also provided no evidence that OP "forgot" his iPhone pin either, though, which I feel would be a win for him. There seems to be a lot of incorrect info coming from one side and not a lot of "whoops, guess we were wrong." Whatever they were doing worked.

BBM

I'd say that having to fly an investigator from South Africa all the way to Apple headquarters in California in order to access phone data is evidence that OP was not forthcoming in providing the necessary passcode(s).

 

[Val1]

I am still in the dark about why OP killed Reeva without seeing her, without seeing her face. I mean he killed a woman "in a box." At any point while Reeva was locked in the WC OP could have broken through and done whatever, but he did not, and instead he chose to kill her in a box without seeing her face. That really bothers me...

Especially after seeing this on her twitter.:/
https://twitter.com/reevasteenkamp/status/285101132211183616/photo/1

However, I still think he could see her even if it was just from light from the outside street/security lights, the gap is certainly big enough to get a pretty close idea whether she was left or right, standing or down, not forgetting he was likely somewhere close to the sinks and firing at an angle.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/oscar-pistorius-new-crime-scene-pics/

 

[Deleted member 102539]

there is a history of Oscar wanting sounds to sound like alternative sounds , other than the sound that was..

in the restaurant shooting, he wanted people to believe it was a gas canister that had gone off in the kitchen..

I enjoy the Screaming Oscar theory as much as anyone could.. it needed Roux to think it up , though..... however.. even Oscar doesn't claim to have screamed for minutes on end , in a womans voice.. his only claim, and it repeats itself in each statement, is that he , and only once , screamed.. he describes all his other verbalizations as , yelling (2) and calling (1).. and 1 bout of screaming, wherein he screams help help help..

So even Oscar forgot about his long and womanly screaming episode before Roux got up and , to general disbelief, claimed it was Oscar who made each and every sound anyone heard on Silverwoods estate that night.

IMO
If OP cried after Reeva's death, then out of shame and despair.
If OP screamed before the shots, then out of anger and despair, knowing Reeva was in the toilet.
If OP screamed during the shots, then he certainly knew too, he would shoot at Reeva.
Who is loudly roaring with woman's voice at an unknown burglar behind a door? No normal man, who bravely runs after the burglar towards the most dangerous room of his home, would do this! You would rather yell with deepest male voice you are able to produce.
OP is doing himself any favors by declaring, he could scream loudly and like a woman - I hope so.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Now times for unrelevant things on the edge:

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/reeva-s-ex-boyfriend-speaks-1.1647370#.U0DbJVenZVs

Reeva’s ex-boyfriend speaks

 

[steveml]

I enjoyed this clip... a happy pair of babblers, but oddly, they left out, and I am wondering if they even noticed, the Assessors, or know what their role is ...

I was cringing watching it, within the first few minutes you just know there's not gonna be much credible info. in there.

It seemed like a day out for them - they probably came back with less information they went with.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

JUST A THOUGHT

Imagine that we could replace the British (and its cousins) Judicial system with...

TRIAL BY FORUM

Would that be good or bad?

Forget presumption of innocence, and rules of evidence. Everything that people can find online is permissible to be considered. Past acts, comments from anybody who knows anything about the Defendant etc. The views of the "victim" and their family given special weight, and not questioned because that would be "bashing the victim"

The final deliberations could be in the form of a Forum Poll... we know how dead accurate they are.

I put it to you that would get a lot of people convicted and given harsh sentences. :jail:

Would that be good or bad? :scared:

I'm convinced of OP's guilt and would condemn him harshly.
But I'm also glad not to be the judge.

 

[steveml]

It does not appear to be a credible article because the writer says he gave the password, it didn't work, and in the next sentence says it did work. It is also date February 13th.

Here is a more credible source from February 27th:

Quote:
"The lead detective investigating Oscar Pistorius over the shooting of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp has been sent to the Apple headquarters in California to seek help in bypassing password protection on the athlete's iPhone, just days before his murder trial is due to begin.

The South African Police Service has been struggling for months to access text and Whatsapp messages on the iPhone 5 they found lying on the bathmat outside the lavatory where Miss Steenkamp was shot in the early hours of St Valentine's Day morning last year."

Snipped

"Mr Pistorius told detectives that he could not remember the Apple ID code needed to log in to the phone. The South African authorities claimed earlier this month that America's FBI was dragging its heels on authorising Apple to disclose the encrypted information."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-HQ-to-crack-Oscar-Pistorius-iPhone-code.html

We just have to accept that both are different sources of information, and decide for ourselves. There's no reason to believe one is more reliable than the other. They all want to sell a story at the end of the day.

What does seem to have become apparent is that the phone itself was not locked, despite early media spin indicating this.

 

[Trooper]

I was cringing watching it, within the first few minutes you just know there's not gonna be much credible info. in there.

It seemed like a day out for them - they probably came back with less information they went with.

are you up to speed with Eugene Ionescu's plays?? these two were surely part of an Ionescu play... his writings are labeled the Theatre of the Absurd, and often, during a performance, there will be one or two sudden flits across the stage of people who mutter non sequiturs , giggle madly , have a very serious exchange of a few words, then get flummoxed by a question thrown at them, reel back in pseudo shock and astonishment, flutter their hands ...

Known in French Theatre as 'les bavards heureux'...the Happy Babblers.

 

[strydohj]

I wonder if some of the initial "sounds" that were heard was maybe related to some toilet door slamming going on before. IMO door slamming would also result in the small wall tiles that overlapped the door frame to fell off on the left outside and right inside (not seen). The door was pivoting on the left side and when it was swung close hard and stop their would be and opposing force towards the outside on the left that might have knocked the tiles off. I find it hard to believe that those rigid panels (that is normally fitted to the rails and styles of the door with a tongue type of joint would be whacked out with only the two tor three bat strikes according to marks on door.

Other interesting facts: The solid panels inside these doors are glued up from thinner pieces say 4-5 inches wide. I do woodwork as a hobby and have on some occasions dropped similar panels onto a flat surface on one face. Result is that it breaks at several of the glue line because of the rigidness of the cured glue. So slamming would dislodge the constituting pieces of the panels from each other making it easier to remove them without much effort or sound. Just another scenario. Of course the door could have been kicked close as well...

However for the door to be successfully slammed either the toilet window had to be open or there would have needed to be hole in the door already to vent the trapped air created by door.

 

[steveml]

are you up to speed with Eugene Ionescu's plays?? these two were surely part of an Ionescu play... his writings are labeled the Theatre of the Absurd, and often, during a performance, there will be one or two sudden flits across the stage of people who mutter non sequiturs , giggle madly , have a very serious exchange of a few words, then get flummoxed by a question thrown at them, reel back in pseudo shock and astonishment, flutter their hands ...

Known in French Theatre as 'les bavards heureux'...the Happy Babblers.

Haha, I know what you mean.

We did some stuff about the plays at school, (think a bit of it went over my head at the time), but yep I can see where your coming from.

 

[steveml]

I wonder if some of the initial "sounds" that were heard was maybe related to some toilet door slamming going on before. IMO door slamming would also result in the small wall tiles that overlapped the door frame to fell off on the left outside and right inside (not seen). The door was pivoting on the left side and when it was swung close hard and stop their would be and opposing force towards the outside on the left that might have knocked the tiles off. I find it hard to believe that those rigid panels (that is normally fitted to the rails and styles of the door with a tongue type of joint would be whacked out with only the two tor three bat strikes according to marks on door.

There's a thought.

It does look like they could have come off during a consistent movement as a single line of tiles is missing all the way down. It could even be one really large door slam.

You've started something now you know... :scared:


ETA: As the force looks like it was acting against the right hand side of the door from the outside, this would tie in with OP's kicking of the door.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

As for Oscar's version , it still doesn't seem probable to me at all that they didn't see / realize each other in the bedroom .

Acc to him , Reeva was in bed on the balcony side and at that exact moment he was out in the balcony grabbing the fan.
She gets up , passes near the bed (not realizing him tangling with tha fan ?)
and when she is just on the footside of the bed , Oscar would come in imo.

Was she teleported to get to the bathroom while OP was coming in ?

both didn't see/ realize each other ,
she didn't hear him coming in from the balcony on her way to bathroom
she didn't hear him closing the blinds and curtains
he didn't hear her in the bedroom , hallway walking towards the bathroom

sounds like a silent movie, or an invisibility cloak from Harry Potter maybe.. :facepalm:

 

[Suthrnqt]

Mark....

 

[strydohj]

There's a thought.

It does look like they could have come off during a consistent movement as a single line of tiles is missing all the way down. It could even be one really large door slam.

You've started something now you know... :scared:

Also check the other info I have just edited onto the post above.

 

[Mango33]

We just have to accept that both are different sources of information, and decide for ourselves. There's no reason to believe one is more reliable than the other. They all want to sell a story at the end of the day.

What does seem to have become apparent is that the phone itself was not locked, despite early media spin indicating this.

Agreed. It seems to me that the police may have struggled with passwords at some point but the media meme of "OP forgot/refused to give the correct password " always seemed odd to me.

The Iphone pincode can be reset at any old Apple store.
The Apple/iTunes ID is not related to a specific device. If we had his id and password any of us could login to OPs account from our computer. Apple could reset that without seeing a physical phone.

If the actual phone needed to be taken to the US it was for recovering deleted data or downloading other records or phone usage, I think. Stuff that needs special software or know how. Not to change a password. IMO.

 

[steveml]

It is also the defense's position that the State was trying to log into OP's iTunes account. From what I remember it is the State's position that they were trying to log into the phone itself or the WhatsApp (I think that is the correct word) and did not have the proper password because OP claimed to have forgotten it.

I sincerely doubt that the State would spend the time and money to send their investigators here to the US to unlock an iTunes account. That makes no sense.

MOO

ETA: I have tried to watch the video of court for the beginning of the investigators testimony that dealt with the phones but can not find one that has sound on it.

No worries, I think I may be able to clarify this.

There's a bit of confusion because the iTunes account was mentioned, however it was just a bit of a tongue in cheek reporting from the magazine regarding his taste in music.

The Apple ID was required to enable access to iCloud. All the Whatsapp messages are backed up onto iCloud (Whatsap do not hold any message info. themselves).

Sure, once you have the Apple ID you do get access to iTunes and other stuff, but that wasn't what the investigators were interested in.

It was just a remark made in jest by the media.

:smile: