Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[Viper]

And his legs on the left side even though I believe it is fact that he keeps them at the end of the bed! Never trust the media is my motto!

Actually IIRC ST said OP kept them at his bedside. He is shown putting them on at the foot of the bed in that interview photography session, that was staged; he keeps them at the side of the bed where he sleeps. Which is logical.

Edit: ST said that OP would either place his gun on his nightstand or sometimes in one of his prosthetic legs. OP definitely wanted that gun at hand! Hard for me to even consider that he stuck it under the bed. Harder still to believe that he grabbed his gun but pushed his legs aside. Anyway...

 

[Gryffindor]

Out of interest, where do you guys watch live please?

I've only followed through live tweets from @DeboraPatta and @BarryBateman until now, as I've always been at work.

As it's the second week of our Easter school holidays, I'll actually be able to watch :-D

TIA x

 

[steveml]

When the PT change an initial theory it is reasonable as they are starting with only circumstantial evidence and some ear/eye witness accounts but none who directly EYE-witnessed the killing as it happened.

When the OP and DT change an account or statement of course it is unreasonable as they have an EYE-witness to the killing as it happened, the ONLY witness. There is no reasonable explanation to change OPs's account of what happened.

I get it if he was adding further detail in his second statement but to me he has omitted detail from statement 2 (plea) and added details that would seem to better fit his defence.

Nevertheless, PT had all the information and exhibits and held their change of claim details back until the trial. Roux thought this was underhand and made a complaint to the Judge. I would have done so too. There's no right or wrong about it so we could disagree forever. It's a procedural issue. SA appear to have a much more informal way of doing things.

OP is entitled to change his statement, and add or omit if he feels there's something he's missed or should have included. It's a point of law - reasonable isn't even an issue.
It's a constitutional right.

 

[kittychi]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but it's quite a useful click-able graphic showing movement in house compared to neighbours responses, with a simple timeline from 10:00pm...

http://www.channel4.com/news/pistorius-murder-trial-gun-reeva-clickable-graphic

Thank you steveml...nice to have this tool, but is the location of the gun is correct? And it shows OP on the side of the bed where it shows Reeva sleeping later on. Other things are helpful in it, though.

ETA: It very clearly shows the maize that Oscar had to go through to get her downstairs. Quite a feat.

 

[MeeBee]

Out of interest, where do you guys watch live please?

I've only followed through live tweets from @DeboraPatta and @BarryBateman until now, as I've always been at work.

As it's the second week of our Easter school holidays, I'll actually be able to watch :-D

TIA x

There's two places I watch.

Wild About Trial:

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/oscar-pistorius-trial-live-stream/

And The Telegraph. If you google 'Oscar Pistorius live stream' this will be one of the first links. I like this one the best:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Watch-live-Oscar-Pistorius-murder-trial.html

 

[steveml]

Thank you steveml...nice to have this tool, but is the location of the gun is correct? And it shows OP on the side of the bed where it shows Reeva sleeping later on. Other things are helpful in it, though.

Thank you.

I know, there are a few funny anomalies in there.

Just think of it as adding another mysterious dimension to the case :wink:

Seriously tho, it's a shame, as I think the idea is quite good and they could have developed that a lot further.


ETA: There's only one fan on it as well.

(cue OP rushing back to change his statement yet again) :scared:

 

[steveml]

I've always thought it was too embellished also, Steve Incongruent phrases peppered throughout too.

A bit like some of my posts! :smile:

 

[kittychi]

http://www.channel4.com/news/pistorius-murder-trial-gun-reeva-clickable-graphic

After looking at those photos, doorways and distance I just can't believe he did what he did instead of grabbing Reeva and his legs and gun and running out the bedroom door to try to get to safety. Such a lack of common sense. Sooo I believe what the prosecution presents. Oscar is going to have a impossible road to hoe convincing the Court he used his only resources or in this case he didn't shoot Reeva on purpose. This will be very interesting tomorrow and the day after and so on. Poor defense, I kinda feel sorry for them, OP will make them look I can't find the words.

I am very reluctant to underestimate Roux at this juncture. It will no doubt be a very, very interesting few weeks.

 

[Gryffindor]

Thanks MeeBee! You're a star :-D x

 

[Gryffindor]

A bit like some of my posts! :smile:

Never! Always informative :-D x

 

[G.bng]

Actually IIRC ST said OP kept them at his bedside. He is shown putting them on at the foot of the bed in that interview photography session, that was staged; he keeps them at the side of the bed where he sleeps. Which is logical.

Edit: ST said that OP would either place his gun on his nightstand or sometimes in one of his prosthetic legs. OP definitely wanted that gun at hand! Hard for me to even consider that he stuck it under the bed. Harder still to believe that he grabbed his gun but pushed his legs aside. Anyway...

Yep, I'd forgotten ST said he kept his legs at the side of the bed, but I was so surprised he would keep the gun in one of them I just had to check. In fact, ST said, "He placed his firearm next to his bedside... on the bedside table, or next to his legs, on the floor". So unless she changed it later (this was at the beginning with Nel), it seems he sometimes placed them next to his legs... just as handy but still not under the bed.

 

[kittychi]

Again, I was talking about Nglengthwa. He is OP's next door neighbor. I was merely speculating as to what he might say and why he might not have been called by the PT. The only reason I can think of is he identified the actual screaming to be male.

Okay, you did say VDM in the post I responded to.

 

[MeeBee]

Okay, you did say VDM in the post I responded to.

Yes, I was talking about both of them. I said they'll probably cal JVDM, as Cherwell said, but was saying that Patta's tweet is probably referring to a neighbor even closer to OP (Nglengthwa) who had called security that night and may have identified the screaming before the second bangs as OP.

 

[Viper]

Yep, I'd forgotten ST said he kept his legs at the side of the bed, but I was so surprised he would keep the gun in one of them I just had to check. In fact, ST said, "He placed his firearm next to his bedside... on the bedside table, or next to his legs, on the floor". So unless she changed it later (this was at the beginning with Nel), it seems he sometimes placed them next to his legs... just as handy but still not under the bed.

Don't you think it's funny, since he felt so vulnerable without his legs, that he would only grab his gun and not his legs? They were right there.

 

[MeeBee]

Well, see you dudes later. Less than eight hours to go now. Hopefully the pathologist doesn't take long. :seeya:

 

[BritsKate]

Nevertheless, PT had all the information and exhibits and held their change of claim details back until the trial. Roux thought this was underhand and made a complaint to the Judge. I would have done so too. There's no right or wrong about it so we could disagree forever. It's a procedural issue. SA appear to have a much more informal way of doing things.

OP is entitled to change his statement, and add or omit if he feels there's something he's missed or should have included. It's a point of law - reasonable isn't even an issue.
It's a constitutional right.

The prosecution is bound by the rules of criminal procedure but at no time, ever, are they required to disclose their case strategy to the defence. Its protected as work product which isn't mandated by discovery.

They did nothing wrong ethically by not disclosing their strategy or even changing theories.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Feynman]

I read that one of the side effects is increased aggression. Sorry can't post link but if you google side effects then it will show.

How can a homeopathic treatment have side effects? Seriously, this testis compositum business is a huge waste of time on these boards IMO. If there was anything to it, don't you think Nel would have brought in an expert to testify to its possible malicious influence?

 

[Gryffindor]

Night meebee See ya later this morning . . Yikes! X

 

[TrueDetective]

Hi all. Just joined the forums on the basis of my interest in the OP case and trial.
I have greatly enjoyed the discussion and debate here and want to thank you all for your contributions and efforts so far. Hopefully I can add something myself now.

I want to pay particular respect to Trooper who I find a very well informed and interesting poster. Also Viper, Val, Lisa etc. KT is a great new poster too. You all are actually - its a great group which is why i decided to join in.

Although I am leaning on the side of the prosecution and sometimes find overtly pro-defence comments difficult to reason (and understand the motive for), it is healthy debate and often valid as I do have some doubts and concerns myself about certain issues.

Ok, enough waffle. Lets get sleuthing :websleuther:

 

[lisasalinger]

Just saw that June Steenkamp is going to be on The Today Show tomorrow morning.