Trial Discussion weekend Thread #18

[G.bng]

I can't seem to find Duchy's post with the photo now .. have gone back several pages, so I think it must've been deleted by the mods (maybe no link/photo credit given?)

Anyway .. this is the photo of the bed for the photoshoot ..

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-first-picture-blade-1724074

.. that one definitely does appear to have blocked in sides .. and the beside table appears to be part of the bed .. it's like an all-in-one type thing .. but the bedside table and lamp looks quite different to this photo of the crime scene which I posted upthread ..

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjARo9PCcAAWOTi.jpg:medium

.. the side of that bed does look the same though, doesn't it .. it deffo looks blocked in .. how odd that he says the gun was under the bed, then??!

As roux would say... "I put it to you"...

Seriously speaking, look again and you will see the lamp is the same it is only the lampshade that is different. In the Mirror's photo the lampshade is a large plain white plastic looking square block (fashionable a few years back), in the crime scene photo the lampshade has been changed for a much smaller round one in a brocade. The lamp itself has the same wooden block legs. It looks as if there are only three legs in both photos, one each side and one in the middle, but it just may be (I doubt it) that there is a fourth leg at the back hidden by the the shadows and perspective and by the poor quality of the photos.

In respect of the actual table it also one and the same. It is rectangular. In the Mirror's photo it has been sited running length-wise against the bed with the drawer opening away from the bed, (i.e. perpendicular to the length of the bed), while in the crime scene photo it has been sited with the drawer opening parallel with the bed. The kick-plank base over which the drawer overhangs can be seen clearly on the right side in the Mirror's photo, while in the crime scene photo the frontal angle does not permit seeing the kick plank as you can't see either of the sides to see the recess over which the drawer overhangs.

 

[soozieqtips]

I wonder if Uncle Arnold and the rest of the clan have been extra careful not to make any noise in the night for fear of being shot dead!

 

[bessie]

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[MeeBee]

Sorry, bess.

 

[kittychi]

I think VDM will be called because it sounds like his testimony will be helpful to the DT, but I think there is a more immediate neighbor of OP's who called security that night. I think he is who is being referred to and I think he might be the one to say he recognized the screaming to be OP, or, at least, to be male.

MeeBee, are you talking about Estelle Van der Merwe's testimony? It was crying that they were talking about, not screaming, I believe.

'Estelle was called to testify about an argument she heard about two hours before the shooting, when, she claimed, she heard a "woman crying".
That was until Roux, who no doubt had seen a statement from her husband, pointed out to her that her husband had told her: "No, that is Oscar crying."
It seems Van der Merwe is one of the witnesses who can attest to Roux's claim that Pistorius sounds like a woman when he screams - and apparently also when he cries.'

I have no problem believing there was crying during arguing two hours before the "event." But screaming and crying have been lumped into one by Roux, not unintentionally I think!

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...led-to-testify

I could be wrong, of course, but I do think this is one of Roux's sly tricks to muck things up so if it is believed that it was Oscar crying at that time, then it could have been him screaming during the shooting.

If Roux succeeds in this very uphill battle to convince the judge and assessors that Oscar screams like a woman, he will be the most famous and in-demand defense lawyer in the world, IMO.

hwow:

.

 

[G.bng]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but it's quite a useful click-able graphic showing movement in house compared to neighbours responses, with a simple timeline from 10:00pm...

http://www.channel4.com/news/pistorius-murder-trial-gun-reeva-clickable-graphic

Especially useful to watch how Reeva teleports herself to the toilet in the same position as she was when lying in bed ! ;-)

 

[Gryffindor]

Does anyone think Oscar will actually tell the exact truth about what happened in the early hours of 14/2/13 ???

 

[G.bng]

Try zooming in on both tables, you will see the same drawer in both images. They are the same table. It is just that in the images they are turned 90 degrees. The table does not attach to the bed, it just sits next to the bed.

Wish I could have explained it with the same simplicity instead of having to write a whole paragraph to explain the same... words just escape me!

 

[MeeBee]

MeeBee, are you talking about Estelle Van der Merwe's testimony? It was crying that they were talking about, not screaming, I believe.

'Estelle was called to testify about an argument she heard about two hours before the shooting, when, she claimed, she heard a "woman crying".

That was until Roux, who no doubt had seen a statement from her husband, pointed out to her that her husband had told her: "No, that is Oscar crying."

It seems Van der Merwe is one of the witnesses who can attest to Roux's claim that Pistorius sounds like a woman when he screams - and apparently also when he cries.'

I have no problem believing there was crying during arguing two hours before the "event." But screaming and crying have been lumped into one by Roux, not unintentionally I think!

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/201...led-to-testify

I could be wrong, of course, but I do think this is one of Roux's sly tricks to muck things up so if it is believed that it was Oscar screaming at that time, then it could have been him screaming during the shooting.

If Roux succeeds in this very uphill battle to convince the judge and assessors that Oscar screams like a woman, he will be the most famous and in-demand defense lawyer in the world, IMO.

hwow:

.

Again, I was talking about Nglengthwa. He is OP's next door neighbor. I was merely speculating as to what he might say and why he might not have been called by the PT. The only reason I can think of is he identified the actual screaming to be male.

 

[G.bng]

Yes, you're right .. the tables are the same, aren't they (but different lamps) .. really odd angles those pix and really confused me, espesh the table having been turned, lol! Looks the it is the same bed then, and it deffo looks blocked in ..

Maybe there's a woman's touch to be seen there... someone who explained to him that you don't put the drawers facing outwards but along with the bed so you can reach into them at night!

 

[steveml]

Especially useful to watch how Reeva teleports herself to the toilet in the same position as she was when lying in bed ! ;-)

It is 4 News though, even their own logo for the number 4 is rubbish :smile:

 

[Bazinga]

That will become clear during defense.

What has already been determined is that the reenactment of OP wearing his prosthesis didn't work when the state tried it out. As this was their initial claim.

I dread to think of the meltdown if OP had changed his initial statement from stumps to no-stumps. A fan and a word was bad enough.

It's fine for the PT to do that though, not a single query about that.

This is an example why we should never presume the prosecution are merely seeking the truth.They will on occasion actively pursue the result that they want.

When the PT change an initial theory it is reasonable as they are starting with only circumstantial evidence and some ear/eye witness accounts but none who directly EYE-witnessed the killing as it happened.

When the OP and DT change an account or statement of course it is unreasonable as they have an EYE-witness to the killing as it happened, the ONLY witness. There is no reasonable explanation to change OPs's account of what happened.

I get it if he was adding further detail in his second statement but to me he has omitted detail from statement 2 (plea) and added details that would seem to better fit his defence.

 

[Gryffindor]

Bessie, my SINCERE apologies. As a relative newbie, I didn't realise regarding the content of your post. I do now, so thank you for posting x

 

[G.bng]

Unless my bad eyes deceive me, they've got OP sleeping on the right side of the bed and retrieving the gun from the floor on the right side of the foot of the bed [pic 3]?

And his legs on the left side even though I believe it is fact that he keeps them at the end of the bed! Never trust the media is my motto!

 

[Cherwell]

Right. But the Stipps are even closer. So how can JVDM be the neighbor closest to OP?

As I said - I don't know how accurate the journalist's information is.

 

[Gryffindor]

As I said - I don't know how accurate the journalist's information is.

Are there neighbours who live either side (left and right) of Oscar's house?

 

[Bazinga]

This is a little disingenuous, is it not.

The prosecution team have to infer the course of events from the evidence. This will involve testing out theories.

Oscar Pistorius knows what happened. There is no reason for him to change his version at all.

Yes!
What I meant but more efficiently said!
Sorry I'm trying to catch up.
Must read faster - can't seem to close the gap of 7-8 pages!!

 

[steveml]

Does anyone think Oscar will actually tell the exact truth about what happened in the early hours of 14/2/13 ???

I hope so.

I think his statement it too complex to falsify. Any of us could catch him out if he's lying, never mind Nel.

 

[Gryffindor]

I hope so.

I think his statement it too complex to falsify. Any of us could catch him out if he's lying, never mind Nel.

I've always thought it was too embellished also, Steve Incongruent phrases peppered throughout too.

 

[MeeBee]

I've always thought it was too embellished also, Steve Incongruent phrases peppered throughout too.

BBM: That's for sure.