Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[molly333]

Molly you're apparently an expert on blood spatter, establishing time and cause of death, and also the chemical processes within the body after death. I apologize if my correcting you re: onset times of rigor mortis has offended you. There's no need to be so defensive.

Your initial argument was that enough time had passed as to allow rigor mortis to set in. I corrected you by saying it was instead a perimortem artifact due to her manner of death.

I'm not looking to argue with someone based on random Google searches.

Yes, and I still think time had passed since her death when the doc saw her.

And we know time had passed because she died in the toilet closet.

But, the doc didn't know that. He only knew no vital signs, clenched jaw, and milky eyes, fixed and dilated. She had been dead for a while.

 

[molly333]

That's the very first thing he did Molly. Once he knew Reeva was in there and couldn't open the door, he ran to the balcony and screamed for help.

He doesn't believe in phones or panic buttons on security systems?

 

[wb180]

Nope, but I wouldn't expect him to bring her to the doorway in full view of any tom, dick or harry that could walk in at any moment.

Wait, he carried her outside of the house? I thought RS's body was still inside the house? If inside the house, I didn't realise Tom, Dick and Harry were invited??

 

[james83]

Nope, but I wouldn't expect him to bring her to the doorway in full view of any tom, dick or harry that could walk in at any moment.

What tom dick and harry?, the only people he is expecting to see down those stairs are the good old Standers, he's already told security everything is fine by this stage and took care to turn off the security alarm that would have been triggered by him leaving the bedroom.

 

[Trooper]

Yes, and I still think time had passed since her death when the doc saw her.

And we know time had passed because she died in the toilet closet.

But, the doc didn't know that. He only knew no vital signs, clenched jaw, and milky eyes. She had been dead for a while.

how much time do you reckon, molly?? = what does ' a while ' consist of in your book??

 

[wb180]

He doesn't believe in phones or panic buttons on security systems?

Apparently his screaming in the middle of the night is more effective than panic buttons. I am sure everyone first thought would do the same thing if you really want to save your love of your life

 

[Viper]

That is what it is starting to look like to me [ I hate to say it].

If he thinks he killed an intruder, why pry him out of the bathroom?

If he thinks he shot Reeva, why not call for help first and then pry open the bathroom door.

Maybe Reeva ran out of the house and is safe.

FIRST THING YOU DO WHEN THE THREAT IS CONTAINED--no matter what--CALL FOR HELP.

Did he ever call for help?

Please stop using expert witness testimony, logic, reasoning, and common sense. Those things have no place here.

Tantrum -> :tantrum:

 

[james83]

That's the very first thing he did Molly. Once he knew Reeva was in there and couldn't open the door, he ran to the balcony and screamed for help.

And you are aware that dr stipp heard those shouts for help having already heard both sets of sounds right?.

 

[steveml]

Wait, he carried her outside of the house? I thought RS's body was still inside the house?

Doorway on inside of house. Hallway to be more specific.

 

[Gryffindor]

Wait, he carried her outside of the house? I thought RS's body was still inside the house? If inside the house, I didn't realise Tom, Dick and Harry were invited??

Walk IN, Steve said, which indicates INSIDE

 

[Val1]

Nope, but I wouldn't expect him to bring her to the doorway in full view of any tom, dick or harry that could walk in at any moment.

Hmm, at 3:??am OP worried about visitors beyond the ones he had invited? As it turns out he did, but only because of the ruckus he made in the wee hours and he can blame Ms. Stander for one of them, she let Dr. Stipp in. Oh but then there were those two strange calls.. was his trigger finger still itchy when he called Baba crying and until proven otherwise, accidentally called 911?

Ok, fftobed: I'm getting a wee bit sarcastic.. sorry everyone:seeya:

 

[soozieqtips]

That's the very first thing he did Molly. Once he knew Reeva was in there and couldn't open the door, he ran to the balcony and screamed for help.

BBM - except that he didn't know it was Reeva in there at that point. By his own admission he thought there was perhaps more than one intruder in the house, and yet after murdering Reeva in the toilet, he was no longer concerned about there being another intruder. He ran to the balcony not knowing if any other intruders were lying in wait ready to bludgeon him to death while he had his back to them on the balcony. For all he knew, Reeva could have fled the house while we was on the rampage looking for intruder/s. He assumed it was Reeva in the toilet but he hasn't yet explained why he didn't think she'd fled, or why he suddenly assumed there were no more intruders. I think Nel will question him on that.

 

[steveml]

And you are aware that dr stipp heard those shouts for help having already heard both sets of sounds right?.

Yep, he heard OP screaming initially, after Reeva was already dead.

 

[wb180]

Doorway on inside of house. Hallway to be more specific.

Then your statement that every Tom, Dick and Harry were invited to look inside the house is a bit improbable.

 

[Freya1977]

Yes, and I still think time had passed since her death when the doc saw her.

And we know time had passed because she died in the toilet closet.

But, the doc didn't know that. He only knew no vital signs, clenched jaw, and milky eyes, fixed and dilated. She had been dead for a while.

Well, there's a definite time line of when the shots occurred and when Dr Stipp arrived, so there's no need for you to speculate. I don't get what you're even trying to say. It wasn't a long time from the shots to when he came - he came because he heard the shots. There's no question about that.

 

[Gryffindor]

Doorway on inside of house. Hallway to be more specific.

I like foyer and atrium ;-) hee x

 

[steveml]

Then your statement that every Tom, Dick and Harry were invited to look inside the house is a bit improbable.

It's more or less the nearest you can get to the outside whilst the body is still inside. Not the best place to be if your intentions are anything but sincere. The bathroom is the best place.

 

[Trooper]

BBM - except that he didn't know it was Reeva in there at that point. By his own admission he thought there was perhaps more than one intruder in the house, and yet after murdering Reeva in the toilet, he was no longer concerned about there being another intruder. He ran to the balcony not knowing if any other intruders were lying in wait ready to bludgeon him to death while he had his back to them on the balcony. For all he knew, Reeva could have fled the house while we was on the rampage looking for intruder/s. He assumed it was Reeva in the toilet but he hasn't yet explained why he didn't think she'd fled, or why he suddenly assumed there were no more intruders. I think Nel will question him on that.

actually. he doesn't immediately call for help.. he sits on the bed, puts his prosthetics on,. goes back into the bathroom and he says, 'aims a kick at the door'... then he runs back to the bedroom, to the balcony, tripping over the fans, the duvet, and calls helphelphelp...

 

[asanque]

That's the very first thing he did Molly. Once he knew Reeva was in there and couldn't open the door, he ran to the balcony and screamed for help.

Ran on the balcony hurdling over the fan and duvet that were blocking his way and then was curiously not seen by all the witnesses who were looking at his house after hearing gunshots.

Edit: Or going with the first set of bangs heard at 3 a.m., his screams sounding instead like a woman or two people at once

:jail:

 

[Trooper]

so no.. he didn't immediately call for help in any form.