Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Viper]

Lets remember Oscar's story about being shot at whilst driving when after the incident he can't remember who he called for help or who came and picked him up: snipped
Really?.
With that clearly made up story he has shown the judge he is willing to get up on the stand and lie under oath, what does she make of that i wonder?.

The funny thing too about that incident is that OP did not do what he says is his instinct to do, namely he did not confront the shooter and draw his gun to defend himself.

No, instead OP retreated to safety and even felt so scared and vulnerable that he abandoned his automobile and called for someone to pick him up and drive him home. This fairy tale was written by someone other than OP, it demonstrates to much logical human thinking!

 

[molly333]

I believe it was Dr Stipp that told Stander to call for the ambulance.

wow. No ambulance called until Dr. Stipp got there and pronounced her dead.

Good grief.

 

[Trooper]

what's more, I think Nel was delighted with Oscar's little Stipping.... on a professional basis, not on humanitarian grounds..

it clearly showed Oscar losing the plot, and failing to rein himself in...

 

[molly333]

But according to OP's version he was already near that side of the bed when he heard the noise. OP stated that he was at the foot of the bed, after moving the fans and such by the balcony, to put the jeans on the LED light. His "legs" were near the balcony to "air out".

I was just kidding. lol Somebody turn on the lights! That's what he needed to do first.

 

[katydid23]

Because they were back around on the other side of the bed past two fans and extension cords in a pitch black room.

OK< so he could have asked for Reeva's assistance. She could have gotten up and grabbed them easily. The point is, there was no reason to leave the safety of the locked bedroom, without first grabbing the gun, putting on his legs and calling security.

 

[james83]

Agree. That's one of the reasons I tend to give him benefit of doubt. It all happened too quickly for him to be able make up a plausible story. Well plausible to me at least.

I don't get why people don't think he had time to make up a story, he shot her through a door, all he had to say was he thought it was someone else in there, he then had 5 days until the bail hearing to come up with his affidavit.

 

[TorisMom003]

wow. No ambulance called until Dr. Stipp got there and pronounced her dead.

Good grief.

To be clear, OP's version has him phoning Netcare (ambulance service) for an ambulance after he phoned Stander. However, Netcare (according to OP) told him to put Reeva in the car and bring her to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance. So, in hearing that, then one would naturally think that the ambulance was not on it's way at that time.

Dr Stipp asked, I believe his testimony was, that he asked if an ambulance had been called for and was told no to which Dr Stipp then said to phone for one.

 

[steveml]

BBM - With inveterate liars, it's hard to know when they're being honest or dishonest - but I'd wager a bet that anything OP has said on the stand is to benefit himself, so I'll go for 'dishonest'. He had to find some way of using up a little time, so saying he sat with her is as good a reason as any. And no, he wouldn't have thought that sitting with her would be more likely to land him in jail, as he could just say he was so overwrought with emotion he couldn't move from her side while he cried and cried and cried. Trying to resuscitate her later won't gain him any points because it was obvious she couldn't possibly be saved. Do you still think he's completely innocent?

I've never thought he's completely innocent. I've got him down for all the gun incident charges, and for killing Reeva.

I've not seen enough to make me believe he intentionally killed Reeva, however we're only just into the second half of the trial so anything could happen yet.

I'm still waiting for the state to build their case. As of this moment, they've not ascertained much more than OP killed Reeva, which we know already. I'm not entirely convinced that Nel himself is thinking he can get more than a culpable homicide conviction, though time will tell.

The prosecution is arguing that it was no accident: Pistorius intended to kill Reeva. Nel and OP could argue all day long about whether he did or didn't see Reeva in the bedroom, but at some stage they need to be making progression in the case.

 

[clearskies1]

what's more, I think Nel was delighted with Oscar's little Stipping.... on a professional basis, not on humanitarian grounds..

it clearly showed Oscar losing the plot, and failing to rein himself in...

Yeah, the comment was so outrageous I've got to think it had a strong impact on the judge.

MOO.

 

[jay-jay]

I'm so on the fence with all this. I keep thinking that usually the truth is very simple.
If OP is telling the truth...then why on earth is he acting like such an arrogant, blaming, irresponsible, prat on the stand? Why argue with the state.

He must really think its an accident a kin to mending the tiles on your roof, telling your partner that's what you are doing then them walking underneath, he makes a mistake in loosening too many and they fall on her head and kill her.
Poor him, complete accident, why aren't we being more sympathic.

He shot someone!!! I'm just not hearing him taking responsibility.
Maybe its more shocking to me as I live in a low crime rate area.

There's something not right.
Or is he just a complete idiot.

I've previously made a similar analogy of a gardening related accident where someone might be cutting a branch off a tree and it accidentally falls and hits their wife .. that is what I call a true accident .. an accident is not blasting your g/f, who you say was in bed with you barely a couple of minutes prior, to bits through a toilet door.

 

[BritsKate]

I think the situation with nitpicking the time line is over analyzing.
Broken down in a logical way, it's virtually impossible to believe it was an accident. And impossible to walk away with any other belief than Oscar is a liar and incapable for taking responsibility for any wrong doing, in any and every situation.
IMO

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can use my timeline. It starts at 3 with screams and ends at 3:12 with gunshots (this latter time estimated by the accused).

Simples. :biggrin:

 

[ShadyLady]

Oh man, this is very strange.--no calls out for 19 minutes after 3:00am bangs

1)First call to Stander
2)Second call to ambulance which results in no ambulance coming
[3)First call made 19 minutes after 3:00am bangs]
4)Third call is silent call to security; Next call in from security,brushing off call from security w "everything fine"
5) Who finally called the EMT's?

OP had to let Reeva die. If not she could tell the tale of the whole night.

I also think OP had some sexual dysfunction going, i.e. the supplements. And over compensating with guns, and cars.

That night it came to a head, especially after Reeva's meeting with boyfriend, and the pressure of Valentine's Day.

 

[TorisMom003]

In listening to yesterday's court proceedings I am noticing that OP breaths rather heavily into the microphone when Mr. Nel has him dead to rights on a lie that OP has told. It really is a shame that we can not see OP during his testimony. His body language must be very interesting.

 

[patCee]

To be clear, OP's version has him phoning Netcare (ambulance service) for an ambulance after he phoned Stander. However, Netcare (according to OP) told him to put Reeva in the car and bring her to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance. So, in hearing that, then one would naturally think that the ambulance was not on it's way at that time.

Dr Stipp asked, I believe his testimony was, that he asked if an ambulance had been called for and was told no to which Dr Stipp then said to phone for one.

Dr Stipp did more I understand,

Dr. Stipp went outside and asked Mr. Stander if the ambulance was on their way. He said no, he hadn’t called them yet so Dr. Stipp called the hospital emergency department and asked them to send an ambulance. They told him he had to call an emergency number, not them directly, so Mr. Stander called an emergency number. Dr. Stipp spoke to the dispatcher, explained the injuries, and they proceeded to send out an ambulance.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-4/

 

[Trooper]

I am betting 100 good Australian dollars, that Dr Stipp was a bit short with Oscar that hideous morning.. He didn't know Oscar, never met the man , and didn't know of him either.. when he got back to his wife, he said, he didn't know who it was , but he had a lot of muscles..

Stipp probably didn't pay due deference to Oscar.. I would think that Oscar was a wretched nuisance for Stipp and what he needed to accomplish in that hallway. And I also suspect that when Oscars lawyer rang Stipp , Stipp wasn't interested in whatever the lawyer had to say. Stipp had his own suspicions..

So Stipp and the Missus as well went on Oscar's black list..

 

[Viper]

after reflection.. I think he threw that comment down because it had been boiling in him for a very long time.. .. maybe even as long as a year ago..

it had no rationale, and it made him sound absurd, but something in him wanted to shout it out.

OK, so many posts about what OP said about Dr. Stipp now. I remember that it was derogatory and related to the doctor's medical aptitude but I don't remember the words. Can anyone post what they were? Even paraphrasing as long as it has the one or two key words that OP used.

 

[molly333]

after reflection.. I think he threw that comment down because it had been boiling in him for a very long time.. .. maybe even as long as a year ago..

it had no rationale, and it made him sound absurd, but something in him wanted to shout it out.

Dr. Stipp seems to be the first person on the scene who cared more about Reeva's benefit than OP's.

 

[DebinGA]

what's more, I think Nel was delighted with Oscar's little Stipping.... on a professional basis, not on humanitarian grounds..

it clearly showed Oscar losing the plot, and failing to rein himself in...

The judge will decide whether to believe the Stipps that the bathroom light was on when RS was killed, or OP's claim that he was too frightened to turn it on at the time he fired his gun. No contest imo.

 

[jassy writer]

Agree. That's one of the reasons I tend to give him benefit of doubt. It all happened too quickly for him to be able make up a plausible story. Well plausible to me at least.

Weeeva, he had five days plus all the expertise of his defense team who combed the scene, to come up with a story. ALL he said on the night was that he thought she was an intruder. I guess it was the first and most obvious explanation to grasp at. All the embellishment came later.

 

[TorisMom003]

Aha!!! The keys that were used to open the locked doors in OP's house were on the speaker in his bedroom, the one at the foot of the bed. OP had to grab those keys to go unlock the front door for Stander. So there was no fumbling around trying to find those keys. Those keys, on that speaker, by the way is next to his bedroom door.