Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[clearskies1]

OK, so many posts about what OP said about Dr. Stipp now. I remember that it was derogatory and related to the doctor's medical aptitude but I don't remember the words. Can anyone post what they were? Even paraphrasing as long as it has the one or two key words that OP used.

What I recall is OP saying that Dr. Stipp didn't seem to know what he was doing, that he (OP) was already doing the things that Dr. Stipp wanted done.

MOO

 

[Viper]

Yes, he was. Doctors often are. And, like God, don't accept bribes!

BIB I think that may have something to do with OPs angst for Dr. Stipp - that Dr. Stipp did not perform a miracle and reverse the damage that OP had done to Reeva.

Well that and the fact that Dr. Stipp heard and saw almost all of the event and testified to that, delivering a brutal blow to OP's fairy tale!

 

[lisasalinger]

The human heart pumps about 5 liters per minute. The human body only contains about 5 liters of blood.

The arteries in her right arm were severed. According to OP's timeline, she would have bled out long before he carried her down the steps 10 minutes after shooting her.

There would be no arterial blood splatter anywhere except the toilet stall.

He bashed the door first - screams- shot her - pulled out the pieces of the door - made calls - carried her down the steps

I put it to you, <modsnip>, to explain how the arterial blood splatter got on the walls and the couch downstairs if Reeva had been shot through the arm 10 minutes earlier. Why were there no large pools of blood in the bathroom? OP's timeline is physically impossible.

I also would love to know why Oscar needed to have his selective amnesia for the first portion of his trip to the stairs. He says he doesn't remember carrying her from the bathroom to the middle landing, not the top, of the stairs.

You know why he can't remember... Because there is arterial spurt only in that section of the walk and there's a REASON he doesn't want us to know something

He remembers perfectly well exactly how he pulled her out of the bathroom, her head rested on his shoulder, he couldn't lift her, he placed her gently on the bathroom towel/carpet, he asked Stander for help...

BUT... He doesn't remember:

1. The first half of his call to Netcare, what HE told them but he specifically remembers what THEY said to him.

2. Telling Baba "Everything is fine"

3. The first half of his walk with her in his arms, to the middle landing of the stairs

4. Getting plastic bags, rope and/or tape

No, that's not slightly suspicious whatsoever!

Anybody who genuinely thinks he was helping her and wasn't trying to cover something up and/or wait for her to die is simply ignoring HIS evidence and in denial.

I loved LindaNJ7's comment about take Oscar out of the equation and insert some other random person and would we even be pondering this right now (paraphrasing). I think not.

 

[DebinGA]

OK, so many posts about what OP said about Dr. Stipp now. I remember that it was derogatory and related to the doctor's medical aptitude but I don't remember the words. Can anyone post what they were? Even paraphrasing as long as it has the one or two key words that OP used.

OP about Dr. Stipp: "He didn't seem to know what he was doing."

 

[jay-jay]

I can't remember, did Nel dwell on this when Dr Stipp's was on the stand ?
I know Dr Stipp's said it because I read the other day but can't remember what Nel responded with or whether he asked any further questions .
Dr Stipp's was the first independent witness on the premises after the shooting so his testimony must be very valid .

I don't recall him doing so .. I think he wanted to save it for his CE of OP!

 

[lisasalinger]

I also would love to know why Oscar needed to have his selective amnesia for the first portion of his trip to the stairs. He says he doesn't remember carrying her from the bathroom to the middle landing, not the top, of the stairs.

You know why he can't remember... Because there is arterial spurt only in that section of the walk and there's a REASON he doesn't want us to know something

He remembers perfectly well exactly how he pulled her out of the bathroom, her head rested on his shoulder, he couldn't lift her, he placed her gently on the bathroom towel/carpet, he asked Stander for help...

BUT... He doesn't remember:

1. The first half of his call to Netcare, what HE told them but he specifically remembers what THEY said to him.

2. Telling Baba "Everything is fine"

3. The first half of his walk with her in his arms, to the middle landing of the stairs

4. Getting plastic bags, rope and/or tape

No, that's not slightly suspicious whatsoever!

Anybody who genuinely thinks he was helping her and wasn't trying to cover something up and/or wait for her to die is simply ignoring HIS evidence and in denial.

I loved LindaNJ7's comment about take Oscar out of the equation and insert some other random person and would we even be pondering this right now (paraphrasing). I think not.

And also don't forget... Baba testified that Oscar was just standing upstairs and didn't start walking down the stairs with her until he saw them all in the doorway!

Oscar wants to come off like it was Netcare's fault that they didn't arrive, the Stander's fault for not driving her, Dr Stipp's fault for being a crappy doctor.. And he dramatically inserts while crying "I was yelling for Dr. Stipp to come back and help her". Nobody heard that, nobody testified that. Dr. Stipp went to Oscar's house after a shooting on his own free will to help. Do you really think he stood there for two minutes, barely did anything and didn't give a crap? Of course not!

Oscar has proven over and over and over on the stand that he will literally say and do anything, no matter how absurd, to get out of ALL of this.

Why? Because he's a murderer.

 

[kittychi]

For Oscar.... he is forever impaled on that split second when he pulled the trigger the first time ....everything he did before and after is predicated on that nanosecond of time, the decision, the act and the consequences.. in that order.

He has had to move with time forward from that point but at the same time, he has to work backwards to get to that point of the trigger pulling moment that avoids the consequences that come after it.

It requires a split mind that can hold two unequivocal and irreconcilable memories at the same time and call one up , then the other without stumbling.. because the human intellect doesn't do that without its own set of inevitable consequences.. which is what we are seeing on the stand when he speaks..

he is impaled on the unequivocal and the irreconcilable at the one and the same time.

Hi Trooper, I totally agree with you.

This is why I feel he is getting his version and what really happened mixed up and they are both coming out in his testimony at different times.

 

[jassy writer]

I think he said Dr Stipp didn't seem to know what he was doing simply because every witness who testifies against OP must be shown to be either incompetent or a liar.

 

[K.T]

Agree with the other poster and imagine it&#8217;s easy to see the situation if you just replace them with any other couple. Also, I think Pistorius' South African crime fear is now just a red herring, from his testimony I think he continually uses fear of crime to feed his aggression and risk taking. (Pistorius is also the worst ambassador for South African tourism in the world:facepalm

Important thing to remember is that he has never, presumably from a young age, been censored or punished for any illegal acts or transgressions. You see this often in professional, and professionally protected, athletes and famous people. They start to inhabit self perpetuating fantasy world.

5 min Video: "The Cycle of Abuse - Oscar Pistorius" Criminologist &#8211; Lisa Grobler

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/Video/SouthAfrica/Oscar-Reeva-messages-show-abuse-cycle-20140328

&#8220;Let&#8217;s look broadly, basically acts of aggression in the past tend to escalate, with certain offenders. To put it basically there&#8217;s always a history. When one looks at where Oscar sits today, it&#8217;s not his first act of aggression. There is always a history. Not where he is actually killed someone but other incidents.

This history in a lot of cases ultimately culminates in a crime like murder, primarily because it&#8217;s [the early transgressions] never been punished."

 

[steveml]

Just get the ambulance on its way. Then you can attend to other things.

So the ambulance is there and can attend immediately when you get the person out of the closet.

Not that it mattered in this case, she died instantly.

When was an ambulance finally called? 25 minutes later? I don't even know who called the ambulance yet.

Let's put it this way, if she hadn't been hit in the head, she probably would have bled out from the other wounds by the time the ambulance got there.

The scenario is so difficult to imagine, and people react in different ways.

For example, if I was driving along a dark stretch of road, and I saw someone trapped inside a car that had the potential of setting on fire, I'd jump out, and try to get that person out of that car. I'd need both my hands for this, I'd be going at full tilt, and I wouldn't be able to do it with a mobile under my chin.
Once I got them out I'd call an ambulance. I couldn't do both at the same time.

In an ideal situation, there would be other people around whilst I was doing this, and they would be able to call emergency services.

People's quick reactions to situations have saved potential fatalities in the past.
There is always going to be a best way of doing something, but in emergencies a lot of time were working on adrenalin and fear.
It's a lot easier to imagine what you'd do in the calmness of reason and afterthought.

 

[jay-jay]

For me this is one of the few things I could give OP the benefit of the doubt on .
Sometimes clothes can fall off a smooth surface long after they have been placed there. It has certainly been the case with some of my possessions over the years .
Not saying I do necessarily believe him just saying reasonable doubt
Just adding here that I have still not figured out exactly what it means yet lol

No, but the point is that the jeans never even got to cover the LED light as far as I am aware .. I'm almost certain OP testified to dropping the jeans on the floor (I don't actually recall him saying that myself, but have read a number of posts here to that effect) .. so, if he dropped them on the floor almost immediately after going to cover the LED light, then at that point he was saying the duvet was on the bed. OP is saying that the police chucked the duvet on the floor in order to incriminate him somehow, but seeing as the jeans (which he himself dropped on the floor) were slightly overlapping the duvet, then there is no way that the policed could've moved the duvet to that position. I'm pretty sure that I haven't explained that very well!

 

[soozieqtips]

OK, so many posts about what OP said about Dr. Stipp now. I remember that it was derogatory and related to the doctor's medical aptitude but I don't remember the words. Can anyone post what they were? Even paraphrasing as long as it has the one or two key words that OP used.

Dr Stipp appeared "overwhelmed" and "unsure" about what he was doing.

Yup. There is no one OP won't send to the dogs.

 

[kittychi]

And also don't forget... Baba testified that Oscar was just standing upstairs and didn't start walking down the stairs with her until he saw them all in the doorway!

Oscar wants to come off like it was Netcare's fault that they didn't arrive, the Stander's fault for not driving her, Dr Stipp's fault for being a crappy doctor.. And he dramatically inserts while crying "I was yelling for Dr. Stipp to come back and help her". Nobody heard that, nobody testified that. Dr. Stipp went to Oscar's house after a shooting on his own free will to help. Do you really think he stood there for two minutes, barely did anything and didn't give a crap? Of course not!

Oscar has proven over and over and over on the stand that he will literally say and do anything, no matter how absurd, to get out of ALL of this.

Why? Because he's a murderer.

I.E., "Please come and help her so I, Oscar Pistorius, do not get charged for murder and lose everything I have."

It gets confirmed every time he makes an appearance. It is all "me, me, me, I, I, I."

 

[kittychi]

No, but the point is that the jeans never even got to cover the LED light as far as I am aware .. I'm almost certain OP testified to dropping the jeans on the floor (I don't actually recall him saying that myself, but have read a number of posts here to that effect) .. so, if he dropped them on the floor almost immediately after going to cover the LED light, then at that point he was saying the duvet was on the bed. OP is saying that the police chucked the duvet on the floor in order to incriminate him somehow, but seeing as the jeans (which he himself dropped on the floor) were slightly overlapping the duvet, then there is no way that the policed could've moved the duvet to that position. I'm pretty sure that I haven't explained that very well!

BTW, it was pitch dark. How did he see the jeans?

 

[molly333]

OP about Dr. Stipp: "He didn't seem to know what he was doing."

Right. Dr. Stipps was doing 'nothing' because she was long dead.

Did no one else in that room perceive she was dead?

Or just what OP would like us to believe?

 

[jay-jay]

I don't think he's paranoid either, but in order for anyone to believe his story, all the witnesses must be out to frame him for murder... for no apparent reason!

Oh, absolutely! .. beggars belief, doesn't it :facepalm:

 

[kittychi]

I don't recall him doing so .. I think he wanted to save it for his CE of OP!

Yes, I have a feeling that Prosecutor Nel has a lot more up his sleeve for Oscar.

 

[TorisMom003]

The open balcony doors wouldn't bother OP while he was awake. Yet he claims to have gone to sleep at 10 pm (or 9 pm depending on which version one believes) leaving the balcony doors open, only to awake at 3 am to close them.

Does this make sense?

 

[molly333]

BIB I think that may have something to do with OPs angst for Dr. Stipp - that Dr. Stipp did not perform a miracle and reverse the damage that OP had done to Reeva.

Well that and the fact that Dr. Stipp heard and saw almost all of the event and testified to that, delivering a brutal blow to OP's fairy tale!

Plus, Dr. Stipp was not invited to the party!

He invited himself.

 

[TorisMom003]

When talking about the highway incident.....

I could hear a bang and I associated it with a firearm.......

Wonder why he didn't think cricket bat since they sound just alike according to OP and his defense?