Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Cherry]

OP isn't mentally disabled. I've known some physically disabled people in my life, just a few, and none of them have mental issues because of their physical disability, or don't know how to answer a question!

No, but he is highly manipulative to attempt to cry in court and make his voice sound like a chick. I cannot overlook how manipulative he truly is.

 

[molly333]

Do we know that they weren't going to see each other on VD? I know that she was going to be doing a presentation that day but perhaps they were going to meet for dinner on the evening? I can't understand why she would give him a picture of the two of them as a gift if she planned on breaking up with him.

I still think they had an argument, not sure about what. A lot of things were perhaps said and maybe she mentioned that she knows lots about him and would reveal it to the media!

We don't know for sure, but it's heavily inferred, IMO.

Why give him his gift the day before if she was going to be with him?

Why tell her family she would see them tomorrow?

Why didn't he have a gift for her?

Why wasn't she planning to stay with him that night?

Someone else said why give him a picture of them if she was breaking up? They were both celebrities, for one. Their pictures have worth beyond a mere photo. I'm sure she would have wanted to remain friends with him, for two. I think she really liked him but he was not marriage material for a 30 year old atty/model who also wants to have babies and whose clock is ticking.

I think Reeva had finally figured that out and was trying to break it off as adults.

Her emails sounded to me like she was at the end of her tether with him a few weeks before.

 

[Cherry]

I've dropped and accidentally hurled iPad off my own duvet waking in the morning forgetting it was there, several different cases not a one fell off let alone became separated.

 

[kittychi]

Ya know, I don't much like Roux personally. There's something very smarmy about him...but I have immense respect for him and the job he does and have maintained that throughout. Mostly. Our member katydid is the daughter of a defence attorney and has posted some amazing insights into just how difficult their work can be over the years.

I think both men deserve respect for fighting their damndest for their cause. They've certainly earned their reputations over decades. I may not always like it because I want 'my side to win' - but I respect the why behind it. And Roux, I believe most would agree, had a difficult case from the get go with a possibly much more difficult client. Of course, he is being handsomely compensated which should help.

JMO and FWIW

:goodpost:

 

[Cherry]

I agree and she did not like his picking at her she said constant. I also believe she was going to break it off w him, maybe that is what sparked a fight.

 

[TorisMom003]

So Oscar is 5'1' on his stumps. Anyone know how tall Reeva was? I don't think she was that tall. I notice she is always wearing platform shoes in pictures.

From Reeva's Wikipedia page:

Height
5 ft 7.5 in (1.71 m)

 

[TorisMom003]

A couple of photos showing the height difference between Reeva and OP. One with Reeva wearing heels, one without Reeva wearing heels.

links for articles for photos:
http://www.digitalspy.com/celebrity...istorius-reeva-steenkamp.html#~oBkTjrRM4ZO2FQ
http://*************************/20...onally-kill-model-girlfriend-reeva-steenkamp/

 

[clearskies1]

Maybe Nel will put it to him tomorrow, as well as zoom n on that pillow. The color on it is out of context w everything else in that room. Ie it looks. Like a struggle did occur threw off duvet, iPad hurled hard enough that it came out of its cover, all on the floor and in back ground of those photos something reddish is on oscars pillow. I want to knw wth it is.

Do you have a link to the pillow photos 51-53? TIA

 

[DebinGA]

Hilton Botha in Vanity Fair last June ...

“It was just them in the house, and according to the security registers she had been staying there for two to three days, so he had to be used to her by that time.... There was no forced entry. The only place there could have been entrance was the open bathroom window, and we did everything we could to see if anyone went through it, and it was impossible.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

 

[molly333]

Not sure where you're getting this breaking up thing on that night. Reeva texted her friend to say she was staying over. When do you think Reeva was going to dump OP, the next day?

I think she did it that night. I think that's what led to staying up all night talking, the 2am loud fight, the 3am gunshots.

I also think she had decided she was just going to go home in the middle of the night and he stopped her.

I can't imagine what else could have led to that. It's a classic DV situation, breaking off with a controller.

 

[BritsKate]

OP isn't mentally disabled. I've known some physically disabled people in my life, just a few, and none of them have mental issues because of their physical disability, or don't know how to answer a question!

I think that 'normal' disabled people have to struggle with a lot. My husband has battled depression and anxiety since becoming disabled - you have to accept that in a sense your body has betrayed you, you're not capable any longer - which has ravishing consequences to self-esteem, etc. He's very often treated or perceived to be mentally incompetent because his physical disability is quite apparent - even sometimes by the medical community. He's brilliant, witty, and very psychologically sound but he does have mental issues, now, that arise directly from his disability. Obviously nothing that impinges his mental aptitude apart from a worryingly high dosage of pain medication from time to time.

All that said, Oscar Pistorius held in the palm of his hand what the overwhelming majority of disabled people could only ever dream of. I hardly think he is a fair comparison to other people who are disabled - some of whom are much more severely disabled than him - because of that anyway.

MOO and FWIW

 

[weeeva]

OP claims to hear "wood moving" at the same time he claims he was shouting, yelling, screaming various things. If his terror at the sound of the window opening was real, he'd have approached the bathroom silently, listening intently, up until the moment he pulled the trigger.

I think he said he did approach the bathroom through the passage silently, so he would not alert the intruder/s of his position.
It is my impression that he started shouting when he was either in the bathroom or just outside it in the passage.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think she did it that night. I think that's what led to staying up all night talking, the 2pm (changed to 2 AM) loud fight, the 3pm (changed to 3 AM) gunshots.

I also think she had decided she was just going to go home in the middle of the night and he stopped her.

I can't imagine what else could have led to that. It's a classic DV situation, breaking off with a controller.

The times are incorrect. It was 2 AM and 3 AM.

 

[jay-jay]

James, you can feel what you like. The truth is that Nel is a top prosecutor who has won international awards for his previous prosecutions and he is held in extremely high regard. Aggressiveness forms part of his style, as does sarcasm, used to highlight inconsistencies in OP's story. As other posters have said, this is how the law works, this is the harsh reality of what the inside of a courtroom is really like, and you cannot accuse Nel of bullying when his job is to get the truth out of a witness who is prepared to lie, and who has been extensively coached on his "story" by his defense team.

^^^ this ^^^

 

[K.T]

So Oscar is 5'1' on his stumps. Anyone know how tall Reeva was? I don't think she was that tall. I notice she is always wearing platform shoes in pictures.

I don’t think you understand the point of my post:

In both defense and prosecution cases Steenkamp is dying on the floor when Dr Stipp see’s a figure moving from right to left in the window. It’s not her figure in the window.

The defense has intimated that Dr Stipp seeing a figure walking past the window, shows that Pistorious was on his prosthetic legs when he is breaking down the toilet door with cricket bat.

While the prosecution says that in the second set of “sounds” there’s the final shot to Steenkamp’s head. Defense expert says Pistorius was not on his prosthetics at the time.

Whether Dr Stipp saw a taller or shorter person may be relevant to help with either sides case.

My post meant: I don’t think Dr Stipp seeing a person walk across the window, definitely shows that he saw Pistorius wearing his prosthetics walking past window at that time.

This is because the window from Dr Stipp’s angle looking from the oustide, and his own subjective perception of the height of the window, he may have just seen a form –
IMO it means you can’t prove prosthetics were on or off.


Adding quote from Jurer13 about the figure:

Dr. Stipp points out that he was on the large balcony looking at the house and that view is better than the small balcony. He did see a person’s silhouette moving from right to left in that window. This is important because it will come up at some point in the trial whether or not Oscar was wearing his prosthetics at the time of the shooting. If the neighbor can see somebody moving in that window, you have to wonder how tall that person was. They will no doubt be looking at measurements at some point. But it sounds like Dr. Stipp saw this figure after security arrived (so after all the commotion) and Oscar did state in his affidavit that he put his legs on after the shooting, so it might not be such a revelation after all. We’ll have to wait and see.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/08/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-4/

 

[molly333]

Do we know that they weren't going to see each other on VD? I know that she was going to be doing a presentation that day but perhaps they were going to meet for dinner on the evening? I can't understand why she would give him a picture of the two of them as a gift if she planned on breaking up with him.

I still think they had an argument, not sure about what. A lot of things were perhaps said and maybe she mentioned that she knows lots about him and would reveal it to the media!

Reeva wouldn't do that [release or threaten to release stuff about him to the media]. Reeva was a really nice person, according to friends and family.

She wouldn't threaten him. And, this wasn't a run of the mill argument.

It ended in death.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Well, I am not an expert in law or legal proceedings, but the Prosecution declined to call Detective Hilton Botha, because they thought it could be damning to their case. Is it possible for the Defence to call him as a witness?

The further searching could be standard proceedure... It's just a thought!

Defence plus Botha= very bad combination. Botha said, after walking through the house, it was clear, that only a murder could have happened, no break-in and hidden intruder.

 

[molly333]

The times are incorrect. It was 2 AM and 3 AM.

yeah, thanks. Could you fix that for me in my post? :biggrin:

 

[TorisMom003]

Reeva wouldn't do that [release or threaten to release stuff about him to the media]. Reeva was a really nice person, according to friends and family.

She wouldn't threaten him. And, this wasn't a run of the mill argument.

It ended in death.

Reeva would, and in fact was going to on April 15th, talk about her own personal dealings with domestic violence. If Reeva was going to use her time with OP in her speech then you can bet that the media would have gotten wind of it. Perhaps OP was unhappy with Reeva talking about her own history of dealing with domestic violence, especially since he had been pretty brutal to her himself.

MOO

 

[jay-jay]

A pity, that we could not try out the following:

Nel will be very kindly and considerate in the further questioning of OP.
OP will enjoy the respectful questioning (respect, which he is used to in the past) and OP will tell one fairy tail after another without any pressure.
The judge will consider his poor difficult life as a disabled man and OP will be acquitted eventually.
OP will clench his fist and will shout "Yessss!" (We know from his bail "victory".)

~snipped~

Did he really do that??

Edit: just seen a follow up post which confirms it was someone from the gallery, not OP.