Trial Discussion weekend Thread #24

[Lyra500]

The first three witnesses don't agree with you. They all heard woman screaming [and man] and then 4 gunshots at 3am, after which the woman screamed no more.

I don't think it was at 3am. Do you have a link for that?

The Stipps, and Mr Johnson both mention screams and then shots at around 3.15 don't they? I thought the first witness had similar timings for the screams and shots too.

 

[Gryffindor]

Fact is: Unfortunately, in the real world, random fights can and do escalate to death. Add a little alcohol to the rage plus a nearby loaded semi-auto. Happens, really.

Oscar hadn't been drinking. Was tested. Nothing in evidence.

 

[Viper]

We may have a semantics misunderstanding.

Where I come from: "going to bed" and "going to sleep for the evening" are different.

No misunderstanding, the two are completely different where I come from too.

Funny though, if you take the duvet and the jeans on the floor away it looks like they had just gotten on the bed with the iPads in the early evening with the lights on. Her bag still packed or repacked to leave. I'm assuming the magazines on the left hand table are Reeva's, and they are so neatly stacked, as though she hadn't gotten to them yet. I don't see a picture of a couple that went to bed (sleep) that night.

 

[Chelly]

Oscar hadn't been drinking. Was tested. Nothing in evidence.

Do you recall how much time lapsed between the murder and the blood test?

 

[BritsKate]

You think she found out he was having an affair with a man? That would do it.



Nel needs a motive. Random fights don't escalate to death.



I'm sure he has a motive in mind.



So far, he's only given us evidence of domestic violence.

He does not need to establish a motive for a determination of guilt. All he needs to do is prove intent. Remember this is a bench trial - it's basically a very clinical legal exercise.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[Viper]

Oscar hadn't been drinking. Was tested. Nothing in evidence.

When were his medical examination and blood tests discussed in court, and by whom?

 

[Gryffindor]

Do you recall how much time lapsed between the murder and the blood test?

Sure. No worries. It was that morning when he was arrested.

 

[LinasK]

Oscar was fine with it. Evidenced in messages.

That's not proof that he really was. He strikes me as very passive-aggressive.

 

[BritsKate]

Oscar was fine with it. Evidenced in messages.

Further evidenced by Oscar repeatedly phoning her during said meeting.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[soozieqtips]

When were his medical examination and blood tests discussed in court, and by whom?

Good question. I don't recall any of this being discussed in court.

 

[Chelly]

No misunderstanding, the two are completely different where I come from too.

Funny though, if you take the duvet and the jeans on the floor away it looks like they had just gotten on the bed with the iPads in the early evening with the lights on. Her bag still packed or repacked to leave. I'm assuming the magazines on the left hand table are Reeva's, and they are so neatly stacked, as though she hadn't gotten to them yet. I don't see a picture of a couple that went to bed (sleep) that night.

Yes, thanks for following up. Agree with you. I do think they were hanging out in bed together, not yet ready to go to sleep. Evidence shows OP was checking out an automobile on his ipad and evidence has also proved there was a little viewed on an ipad or iphone that night. So, I think we agree that when they were lounging in bed things were first OK, then something happened to cause the evening to unravel and turn deadly.

 

[Gryffindor]

That's not proof that he really was. He strikes me as very passive-aggressive.

That's the evidence the judge has to use. She has to judge on evidence, not subjective inference.

 

[james83]

Oscar was fine with it. Evidenced in messages.

1) "Maybe go see him and come through when your done", does the word maybe come across as someone who is keen for that meeting to take place?, to me personally and from past experience it comes across as him not being keen but making an effort to fight his jealous urge's, maybe i'm wrong but that's how i read it because i find it difficult to believe that a man who had a problem with her touching another man's arm would be o.k with her meeting her long term ex.

2) Again personal experience with a jealous partner, sometimes you think you have avoided an "episode" and the you notice that look on there face and know what's coming, sometimes it's the same day as the trigger event, sometimes it's day's later.

IMO i think the meeting with the ex is a likely trigger point for what happened that night, that's been my feeling all along, but i stress it's JMO.

 

[Gryffindor]

Further evidenced by Oscar repeatedly phoning her during said meeting.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Has that been presented in court during the phone/device evidence?

 

[Magdalyn]

You think she found out he was having an affair with a man? That would do it.

Nel needs a motive. Random fights don't escalate to death.

I'm sure he has a motive in mind.

So far, he's only given us evidence of domestic violence.

They do. Between couples and between strangers. This happens all the time all over the world. At movie theaters (texting murder), at sporting events, and between couples (and even just room mates and friends) where one has extreme anger and impulse control issues.

I'd wager more domestic abuse acts are inflicted over 'random issues' than 'real' issues such as infidelity or divorce papers. They usually start with stupid things like Who were you on the phone with? Why weren't you home when you said you would be? What did you mean by that? Why are you dressed like a ? You sure were touching that guy at the party an awful lot!

Then the victim unwittingly 'incites' their anger further (from the abuser's POV) by either standing up for themselves, trying to leave, or just not tap dancing fast enough.

Then the abuser loses their temper and in some instances, it ends in the death of the victim.

I'd add supporting links but they are sadly to numerous to count and very easy to find.

 

[Viper]

Oscar was fine with it. Evidenced in messages.

BIB. Oh I am not sure about that. He called her so frequently during her coffee meeting with her ex that the man had to start asking Reeva what's OPs problem (paraphrasing). That's jealousy.

 

[zwiebel]

Mmm. Trying to find out if chicken stir fry would be something OP considered he could eat. And 'I've managed to find out he feeds raw chicken to cheetahs. Not helpful, really.

What's an oke? He refers to every oke who has an opinion about him in the article. Also mentions him storming out of a BBC interview, which I hadn't heard about.

http://www.mh.co.za/fitness/the-power-of-oscar-pistorius/

 

[soozieqtips]

I wonder if it could possibly be that there was a row over the meal. I noticed a few times in his testimony OP mentioned being starving/hungry/can't eat that/hadn't eaten properly for weeks. He also brings the subject up a few times in msgs to Reeva, and blames hunger for at least one incident?

He has given me the impression when he has to eat, he has to eat, gets snappy and is also very, very particular about his diet. Low blood sugar or something, perhaps. Also, that he maybe struggles to keep his weight/hunger pangs down? There was just something about the way he made such a point about them carrying the used dishes into the kitchen...made me a bit suspicious.

I also thought I saw a plate on the floor in the bedroom photo, by the ipad, but I can't find the photo back in the thread now.

Yes, food did seem to be a source of some anxiety for him. The night he was speeding (and Reeva got upset because he knew she didn't like him to speed) he said it was because he was hungry and that he had to drive her friend home (or something like that). If he was very strict with his diet, and went hungry sometimes, I could see him getting irritated if he wanted to eat - although to be fair, just about anything irritated him from what we've heard so far.

 

[DebinGA]

Wasn't there testimony that the sites were accessed around 6:30 p.m., which is when OP claims RS was cooking his dinner? IIRC he said he came home and went upstairs to change clothes while RS was in the kitchen fixing a chicken stir-fry. Maybe he watched as a "stress reliever" after his terrible no-good very-bad day.

 

[soozieqtips]

Has that been presented in court during the phone/device evidence?

Have these blood tests you said he had been presented in court as evidence?

It's been referred to twice but you haven't answered.