TRIAL - Ross Harris #1

[DexterMorgan]

Yeah, I don't know why those measurements were included or how they were done - I can find no information of crown-rump, rump-heel being of any value other than determining the age of an embryo or fetus so I'll wait until the ME is on the stand to explain it.

To be clear, my posts were intended for one reason - to agree with another poster that Cooper's height (33") exceeded the maximum height (30") the car seat manufacturer stipulates. I think I understand why some posters prefer using the crown to rump and rump to heel measurements and frankly I don't care anymore. Both numbers are clearly stated - if the car seat manufacturer wanted to use crown to rump and rump to heel measurements then those measurements would be in the manual. They're not - and for a good reason. I'm satisfied that Cooper exceeded the height maximum so I'm finally done with this subject.

The rear facing car seat we had came with a hood for shade and would obstruct head view.

Did Ross carseat have a hood attachment?

 

[blue22]

I will reply to your post tho. No, they (he) would not want uniformity in the testimony. Quite the opposite.

You don't think they would want the witnesses to allude to a similar smell? If Stoddard said decomposition, I would think they'd want the witnesses to allude to the smell of death or decomp. (Not necessarily using those words, but suggesting it.) Sweat, dirty diapers...do not do that. It does nothing to support Stoddard's statements. I just can't get behind the theory that these witnesses (all of them that smelled something) are perguring about what they smelled.

JMO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just curious, how are so many posters determining that the State overcharged before they have finished presenting their case?

I for one am not determining anything regarding charges until the trial is finished and jury get the case for deliberation. Only thing I am doing is conversing on testimony under oath. I personally don't know how anyone can determine yet anything regarding guilt of charges. We don't have all the evidence yet. But so far .. well I want the State to step it up not impressed so far. I guess if one is emotionally looking at it well that would be different. I choose not to look at the trial that way. It is horrible about the baby. But I just want to follow the legal part of it. JMHO

 

[DaleTray]

Anybody else kind of suspicious of Lt/Capt Ferrel?

Is Ferrell the LE that said something to the effect if "No, I didn't write the report. I forgot. I guess I got busy." "But Stoddard verbally reminded me while passing in the hallway 12 months later" and I told Stoddard "Yes,I did forget and w go write it now"?
I am too lazy to go back and look at who said what so maybe I shouldn't have used quotation marks. Lets go Redskins

 

[arkansasmimi]

You don't think they would want the witnesses to allude to a similar smell? If Stoddard said decomposition, I would think they'd want the witnesses to allude to the smell of death or decomp. (Not necessarily using those words, but suggesting it.) Sweat, dirty diapers...do not do that. It does nothing to support Stoddard's statements. I just can't get behind the theory that these witnesses (all of them that smelled something) are perguring about what they smelled.

JMO

JMHO it not that they didn't or did smell but the fact that they did not put that in their very detailed first report. And the ones that have added, added it a year after the fact and it was after a meeting. One being the Supervisor over the case Lt Ferrell. Also James Hawkins the witness that help do CPR, he said dirty diaper smell. For some reason and haven't went back and listened but IIRC it was Grimstead that the State asked if he knew Hawkins or had interviewed him. Only thing I can think of is maybe Grimstead said something that Hawkins had said. JMHO

 

[Safeguard]

IMHO... The reason that law enforcement went directly to murder was the that Cooper was in rigor mortis. Of the cases that I have viewed over time.. finding a dead child in the backseat is somewhat immediate upon the adult reentering a car...and prior to rigor.

Bells and whistles perhaps went off because that meant hours since death and due to the rigor mortis.

According to: A watch group dedicated to awareness and prevention: http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

"On average, 37 children die from heat-related deaths after being trapped inside vehicles. Even the best of parents or caregivers can unknowingly leave a sleeping baby in a car; and the end result can be injury or even death."

As for the issue of a "smell" and timing of discovery... Some parents have driven considerably farther, and never noticed anything:

"Several people have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat."

 

[arkansasmimi]

Is Ferrell the LE that said something to the effect if "No, I didn't write the report. I forgot. I guess I got busy." "But Stoddard verbally reminded me while passing in the hallway 12 months later" and I told Stoddard "Yes,I did forget and w go write it now"?
I am too lazy to go back and look at who said what so maybe I shouldn't have used quotation marks. Lets go Redskins

That is exactly who it is. His Supervisor. I curious who he told prior to writing that report 8/2015 about smelling an odor.

Also curious about Stoddard being at the Crime Scene Shed during time the SW was going on. Grimstead said started on 6/18 and past midnight into 6/19/14.

 

[arkansasmimi]

According to: A watch group dedicated to awareness and prevention: http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

"On average, 37 children die from heat-related deaths after being trapped inside vehicles. Even the best of parents or caregivers can unknowingly leave a sleeping baby in a car; and the end result can be injury or even death."

As for the issue of a "smell" and timing of discovery... Some parents have driven considerably farther, and never noticed anything:

"Several people have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat."

Kilgore said in OS (which are not evidence) but that there was going to be an expert who will talk about slides of tissue and how not possible to smell anything at that time. So I await that. Pretty interesting listening to that AJC podcast with those medical professionals talk about it too.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The rear facing car seat we had came with a hood for shade and would obstruct head view.

Did Ross carseat have a hood attachment?

yes but it was folded down in behind the head of the car seat (from photos we have seen of it in car 6/18/14 not obstructing view.

 

[Hope4More]

Quote button not working ...

Hope4More - I have also been thinking that all the evidence of texting and sexting on the day Cooper died is strong circumstantial evidence that he really did forget Cooper was in the car. Of course he wouldn't be engaging in that behavior if he planned Cooper's death, knowing police would find this on his phone and use it against him. He was clueless!

I agree. Not so much about the sexting to adult women, but yes about sexting with a minor on that day, more so if it's true he researched the law and knew the consequences (that the State says he did is meaningless at this point, imo).

Putting some pieces together, I'm sorry, but I increasingly find the State's theory of his intent absurd, start to finish.

What's wrong with this picture? On the day RH intends to murder his son, he takes his son to breakfast, inside, ensuring that he's even later for work, making his deviation in schedule all the more obvious.

He then drives Cooper into his workplace parking lot, and chooses a spot that is not out of the way at all. Video of the lot makes that point better than any words could.

For that matter, if RH wanted to kill Cooper and make it took like a hot car death, could he have chosen a more unbelievable scenario than he did? It's the very fact he says he forgot Cooper between CFA and the intersection, in a matter of seconds, that many find most incomprehensible and unbelievable.

Why, if planning ahead did he choose that most unlikely of all scenarios? And why choose to kill Cooper on a workday at all, since besides the too quickly forgetting thing, a workday killing meant he would be on surveillance cameras or observed for virtually every minute of the day, other than his driving time?

And, if Cooper's car seat was so small that his head was clearly visible over the top, and if RH was well aware of the seat regs (per LE, per RH's acknowledging this), and if he planned on killing Cooper, isn't putting Cooper in that car seat about the very LAST thing he would do? Since, no matter what else, LE is absolutely going to notice that car seat, even if they don't start off thinking murder? But might be more inclined to wonder , or think negligence, if the carseat was so terribly, egregiously suspiciously too small?

Imo, their narrative becomes more Alice in Wonderland upsidedown the more I think about it, and that's without even considering the mounting pile of LE irregularities.

 

[DaleTray]

I have seen reference on here but had no idea what AJC podcast was until I just Googled. I am a huge podcaster and I look forward to listening to these. I think I saw 5. Thanks everyone. Now back to NFL. Redskins need me

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think he went to his car at lunch so he could sound the alarm then. But notice Cooper wasn't dead yet.

Also I wondered if he told his coworkers at lunch that he took Cooper for breakfast in the morning before dropping him off at school.

 

[Safeguard]

I agree. Not so much about the sexting to adult women, but yes about sexting with a minor on that day, more so if it's true he researched the law and knew the consequences (that the State says he did is meaningless at this point, imo).

Putting some pieces together, I'm sorry, but I increasingly find the State's theory of his intent absurd, start to finish.

What's wrong with this picture? On the day RH intends to murder his son, he takes his son to breakfast, inside, ensuring that he's even later for work, making his deviation in schedule all the more obvious.

He then drives Cooper into his workplace parking lot, and chooses a spot that is not out of the way at all. Video of the lot makes that point better than any words could.

For that matter, if RH wanted to kill Cooper and make it took like a hot car death, could he have chosen a more unbelievable scenario than he did? It's the very fact he says he forgot Cooper between CFA and the intersection, in a matter of seconds, that many find most incomprehensible and unbelievable.

Why, if planning ahead did he choose that most unlikely of all scenarios? And why choose to kill Cooper on a workday at all, since besides the too quickly forgetting thing, a workday killing meant he would be on surveillance cameras or observed for virtually every minute of the day, other than his driving time?

And, if Cooper's car seat was so small that his head was clearly visible over the top, and if RH was well aware of the seat regs (per LE, per RH's acknowledging this), and if he planned on killing Cooper, isn't putting Cooper in that car seat about the very LAST thing he would do? Since, no matter what else, LE is absolutely going to notice that car seat, even if they don't start off thinking murder? But might be more inclined to wonder , or think negligence, if the carseat was so terribly, egregiously suspiciously too small?

Imo, their narrative becomes more Alice in Wonderland upsidedown the more I think about it, and that's without even considering the mounting pile of LE irregularities.

Exactly. These are all the same reasons I find the charges ludicrous also! Not to mention, if this was planned, why didn't RH bother to leave some search history related to the joys of parenthood, (perhaps he might have looked into the age of a Cub scout, or cool places to bring your toddler, whatever)... or send a few texts from work suggesting that he adored his child? No, instead he thought it would be a better idea to send pics of his genitals to minors on this crucial day of days in his murder plot?

Why are all the sources that are saying, (daycare workers who saw RH with Cooper DAILY, and his EX-wife), he was a loving and devoted parent to cooper, being disregarded? They would know better than I, so I choose to believe what those who know him have to say, more than what LE would like for me to believe.

I think it also comes down to, "A little child is dead, and people want blood. They want somebody to pay.

 

[magnolia]

You don't think they would want the witnesses to allude to a similar smell? If Stoddard said decomposition, I would think they'd want the witnesses to allude to the smell of death or decomp. (Not necessarily using those words, but suggesting it.) Sweat, dirty diapers...do not do that. It does nothing to support Stoddard's statements. I just can't get behind the theory that these witnesses (all of them that smelled something) are perguring about what they smelled.

JMO

I'm confused. Who said all the witnesses perjured themselves about what they smelled?

 

[EquallyDivided]

Forgive the info dump, I'm catching up here. Of course this is all MOO, IMHO, IIRC, etc...

And for what it's worth, macro analysis speaks volumes to me, and I feel like some of the micro is an attempt to mislead.

1. Searching for child free Vs typing in the URL shows that he was aware of the existence of this website in such a familiar way, that he knew the Web address and didn't need to search for it. I would assume he has used the website in the past, if he knows the direct Web address.

2. So we surmise that RH does not turn around to back-up and therefore wouldn't have seen Cooper - Yet we know from his own statements that he didn't rely solely on mirrors when he turned his head to check for blinds pots in order to change lanes (and then discovered Cooper).

3. There is no smoking gun for me. But the totality of events and behaviors that are inconsistent with his normal, baseline behavior leads me to believe that RH probably did these things in premeditation, and not as an excuse as to why he forgot his child. As sick as it is, taking Cooper to CFA and carrying him inside, inconsistent with normal behavior REEKS of taking your dog out for burgers right before you have to put them to sleep... it really slaps me across the face that way. One last hurrah.

4. If he called the childcare center routinely, he's aware of the prompts through the corporate number to quickly route his call to the childcare center. I would assume it wouldn't take 6 minutes for anyone who knows the routine, and we know he has called previously.

5. I write incident reports and investigative reports on a routine vasis. I also audit investigative reports for accuracy. You would be surprised at how many details are left out, it's not uncommon. There are many things that are common sense that you feel should be assumed. There are things that people put in that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Most of the time, you don't realize how important small unassuming or assumed details are until you go to trial. Most of the time, I find armchair quarterbacks in these situations laughable. I could ask you what you ate for lunch today, then pick it apart because you don't know exactly WHAT information is relevant depending on why I asked that question. Maybe I wanted to know the portion size, sodium contents, how many calories, did it contain peanuts for goodness sake.

6. Using prostitutes, sexting underage girls, showing a corrupt or reprehensible lifestyle just goes to paint a picture that the choir boy persona isn't an accurate representation. Yes, it's bad bahvior but not murderous - but it DOES show a double-life, and misconception of his true self. It DOES show that no matter how dedicated he looks as a father, he doesn't semi to have a problem with routinely breaking the law.







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[DexterMorgan]

The point of the smell is would Ross have immediately noticed it upon first getting in his hot car that had the windows up.

Especially since the odor would have been much stronger.

So he would have looked around the inside of the car at the work parking lot before taking off.

 

[Hope4More]

Exactly. These are all the same reasons I find the charges ludicrous also! Not to mention, if this was planned, why didn't RH bother to leave some search history related to the joys of parenthood, (perhaps he might have looked into the age of a Cub scout, or cool places to bring your toddler, whatever)... or send a few texts from work suggesting that he adored his child? No, instead he thought it would be a better idea to send pics of his genitals to minors on this crucial day of days in his murder plot?

Why are all the sources that are saying, (daycare workers who saw RH with Cooper DAILY, and his EX-wife), he was a loving and devoted parent to cooper, being disregarded? They would know better than I, so I choose to believe what those who know him have to say, more than what LE would like for me to believe.

I think it also comes down to, "A little child is dead, and people want blood. They want somebody to pay.

Or, it came down to, the media ate up and amplified all the misleading, inflammatory information LE put out there from the very beginning, stoking the public's outrage and folks' calls for every nasty form of vengeance imaginable, including for LEANNA.

In real life, it is sadly not all that surprising the (elected) DA didn't reverse course after reviewing where the evidence was leading, and drop the charge of malice murder

 

[Safeguard]

Forgive the info dump, I'm catching up here. Of course this is all MOO, IMHO, IIRC, etc...

And for what it's worth, macro analysis speaks volumes to me, and I feel like some of the micro is an attempt to mislead.

1. Searching for child free Vs typing in the URL shows that he was aware of the existence of this website in such a familiar way, that he knew the Web address and didn't need to search for it.

2. So we surmise that RH does not turn around to back-up and therefore wouldn't have seen Cooper - Yet we know he didnt rely solely on mirrors when he turned his head to check for blinds pots in order to change lanes (and then discovered Cooper).

3. There is no smoking gun for me. But the totality of events and behaviors that are inconsistent with his normal, baseline behavior leads me to believe that RH probably did these things in premeditation, and not as an excuse as to why he forgot his child. As sick as it is, taking Cooper to CFA and carrying him inside inconsistent with normal behavior REELS of taking your dog out for burgers right before you have to put them to sleep... it really slaps me across the face that way.

4. If he called the childcare center routinely, he's aaare of the prompts through the corporate number to quickly route his call to the childcare center. I would assume it wouldn't take 6 minutes for anyone who knows the routine.

5. I write incident reports and investigative reports on a routine vasis. I also audit investigative reports for accuracy. You would be surprised at how many details are left out, it's not uncommon. There are many things that are common sense that you feel should be assumed. There are things that people put in that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China. Most of the time, you don't realize how important small unassuming or assumed details are until you go to trial. Most of the time, I find armchair quarterbacks in these situations laughable.

6. Using prostitutes, sextile underage girls, showing a corrupt or reprehensible lifestyle just goes to paint a picture that the choir boy persona isn't an accurate representation. Yes, it's bad bahvior but not murderous - but it DOES show a double-life, and misconception of his true self. It DOES show that no matter how dedicated he looks as a father, he doesn't semi to have a problem with routinely breaking the law.







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bbm
r/childfree has always been a pretty controversial subreddit. Most redditors are " aware of the existence" of it. (it's not a website unto itself btw). Many people, myself included, have checked out that sub just to see for ourselves what all the hype is about. Even if RH had subscribed to that sub, it would mean absolutely nothing. He never posted a thing there.


Most of the time I find Non-Users opinion of how people use Reddit laughable! JMO

**Oh and fwiw, you can click on any topic from Reddit front page, or hyperlinked within a post, and it will take you to different subs. Could that mean he didn't actually type in the url manually, but was instead automatically redirected? Yes. yes it does.

 

[EquallyDivided]

bbm
r/childfree has always been a pretty controversial subreddit. Most redditors are " aware of the existence" of it. (it's not a website unto itself btw). Many people, myself included, have checked out that sub just to see for ourselves what all the hype is about. Even if RH had subscribed to that sub, it would mean absolutely nothing. He never posted a thing there.

Most of the time I find Non-Users opinion of how people use Reddit laughable! JMO

It absolutely confirms my statement, so I'm not aware of what's so funny to you, but as long as you're amusing yourself - go for it.

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[cricket49]

According to: A watch group dedicated to awareness and prevention: http://www.kidsandcars.org/how-kids-get-hurt/heat-stroke/

"On average, 37 children die from heat-related deaths after being trapped inside vehicles. Even the best of parents or caregivers can unknowingly leave a sleeping baby in a car; and the end result can be injury or even death."

As for the issue of a "smell" and timing of discovery... Some parents have driven considerably farther, and never noticed anything:

"Several people have driven from their workplace to the day-care center to pick up the child they’d thought they’d dropped off, never noticing the corpse in the back seat."

This site has so much information that addresses how parents forget their child in a car to the issue of driving miles without smelling urine or the body of a child.

The defense needs to get Dr. David Diamond to testify regarding some of the issues that are being brought up. He has testified at many civil and criminal trials when a child has been left in a hot car. He addresses the issue of how good and caring parents can forget a child in the car.

https://theconversation.com/an-epid...ot-cars-a-tragedy-that-can-be-prevented-60909