Trial - Ross Harris #2

[Hope4More]

Lol.




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How is that humorous?

 

[katydid23]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. He wanted Leanna to show up to the daycare and see that Cooper wasn't there. He texted HER to find out when she would be picking him up.

Good point.

If he was leaving early to go to the movies, why would he care what time she was picking up the baby?

 

[katydid23]

Point is what RH meant when he said "we both need escapes," and my point is I find it ridiculous for LE to suggest RH was referring to killing his son, in a text, to a stranger, a text he didn't bother to delete over the next 7 hours when he had the chance to, and an interpretation made by the same LE and the DA who tried to sell the bunk of intent being proven by RH's research on being "child-free."

Not buying it.

I don't interpret it as him wanting to kill his son, ----at least not consciously. But hard to ignore that he is having that discussion at the very moment he 'forgets' to turn towards the daycare drop off---sealing his son's fate. Hard to overlook the synchronicity of that moment.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

How is that humorous?

He had already made plans with his friends to go but still asks Leanna 'can I go to the movies'?

Who does that?

I should have put WTH instead of Lol.


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[katydid23]

Look at the time on the texts. Leanna usually picked Cooper up from daycare, not Ross. Leanna couldn't pick up Cooper, she asked Ross to, who knows when she asked him, she is simply reminding him about a change in plans, because it had happened once before that he needed to pick up Cooper and had forgotten.

Forgetting to pick up Cooper from daycare is not the same thing as forgetting to drop him off and leaving him in the car. If anything, what these texts do IMO is bolster the case RH genuinely forgot or did that brain switch thing Dr. Diamond will testify about.

I stand by my belief that if he had forgotten to pick him up from daycare previously, then he should have been even more careful about keeping track of him. He already KNEW that he was forgetful when it came to his son---as we know from the daily pictures he had to send to his wife.

So since he already knew that ' forgetting him' was a problem, he has no excuse for doing it again---but in the worst possible way.

I don't think the jury is going to completely buy Doc Diamonds smooth excuse theory. jmo

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Do we know who will be testifying tomorrow?


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[AuntB]

So far in the trial, I think the best piece of evidence that Ross didn't do this on purpose is his parking the car in a partially shaded spot and/or not parking along the edge/more remote spot if it existed? It seems like if he was going to attempt a hot car death, he'd select a sunny parking spot to make sure he succeeds. :anguish:

Like many, my opinion about Ross' murder motive was formed in the days immediately following Cooper's death and was based upon the news reports/PC hearing. I'm wavering about the intentional murder because lots of the things I thought I knew seem to be false. So...trying to be objective... I think that his choice of parking spaces--unless there were no sunnier parking places in the lot--might be a point in his favor.

Question for those here who have studied the photos, video and/or know the area: Are there parking spaces that were sunnier but also somewhat private, as in, not close to the building?

 

[Hope4More]

I don't interpret it as him wanting to kill his son, ----at least not consciously. But hard to ignore that he is having that discussion at the very moment he 'forgets' to turn towards the daycare drop off---sealing his son's fate. Hard to overlook the synchronicity of that moment.

Not at the same moment (not sure if you meant that literally). He texted about escapes at 9:15, iirc, and was at the intersection at 9:24.

And I still think he was referring to his past, present, and intended sexual transgressions (RH: "I'm (happily married minus the sex").

After reading his texts with Leanna from earlier in the week, I'm not even convinced any more that he was angry with her. He seemed to not really be struggling very much with guilt or anything else. Just doing as he pleased, and essentially justifying doing as he pleased by making it Leanna's fault.

 

[Hope4More]

So far in the trial, I think the best piece of evidence that Ross didn't do this on purpose is his parking the car in a partially shaded spot and/or not parking along the edge/more remote spot if it existed? It seems like if he was going to attempt a hot car death, he'd select a sunny parking spot to make sure he succeeds. :anguish:

Like many, my opinion about Ross' murder motive was formed in the days immediately following Cooper's death and was based upon the news reports/PC hearing. I'm wavering about the intentional murder because lots of the things I thought I knew seem to be false. So...trying to be objective... I think that his choice of parking spaces--unless there were no sunnier parking places in the lot--might be a point in his favor.

Question for those here who have studied the photos, video and/or know the area: Are there parking spaces that were sunnier but also somewhat private, as in, not close to the building?

Yes, bunches of them, in the part of the semi-circle perimeter furthest away from the one entrance to his building, a part that was also much less trafficked by other cars or employees on foot.

I've wondered whether or not there were even surveillance cameras over there.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

It is the same moment actually. Less than 60 seconds.

He responded to the same post on Whispers less than 1 minute before he's seen on camera pulling into the HD parking lot.

Last response to the Whisper post - 9:24:28am

Seen on camera in parking lot : 9:25:17am

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[Hope4More]

I stand by my belief that if he had forgotten to pick him up from daycare previously, then he should have been even more careful about keeping track of him. He already KNEW that he was forgetful when it came to his son---as we know from the daily pictures he had to send to his wife.

So since he already knew that ' forgetting him' was a problem, he has no excuse for doing it again---but in the worst possible way.

I don't think the jury is going to completely buy Doc Diamonds smooth excuse theory. jmo

I don't equate the fact he had no excuse for forgetting him with a belief it was not possible that he did. And repeatedly, really, in the sense that there were a number of times he COULD have realized Cooper was in the car, but was so preoccupied with his phone he didn't.



What I would find more outrageous would be if he had ever forgotten Cooper and left him in the car, yet hadn't come up with a foolproof system for never repeating that, if there is such a thing.

 

[minor4th]

I feel bad for the young lady. But by her own testimony she was doing it also. He first responded to her post about people being pansies and wouldnt post their pictures after she did hers (paraphrashing)
But Kilgore is just doing his job. Like it or not. Same as State. Don't think the Stater isn't not gonna get on Def witnesses. JMHO

I don't see how why people would feel badly for her, yet be disgusted at Ross for the same behavior. It's Kilgore's job to cast doubt on the prosecution witnesses and also to normalize the sexting behavior as much as possible. After all it is something that quite a lot of people engage in ...as this trial has shown.

 

[katydid23]

I don't see how why people would feel badly for her, yet be disgusted at Ross for the same behavior. It's Kilgore's job to cast doubt on the prosecution witnesses and also to normalize the sexting behavior as much as possible. After all it is something that quite a lot of people engage in ...as this trial has shown.

A lot of people are disgusted at Ross because he was sexting while his toddler was there with him. And because he was so distracted by the horny thoughts , he let his child die a painful, gruesome death. As far as I know, his sexting partner was not replying to him while her child was dying in her car.

She was not on trial---he was. So the defense did not need to have her look at every picture she sent, and be admonished by them on camera. If Ross was sitting alone somewhere , and his kid was safe, then I'd have less of problem with it.

 

[Hope4More]

It is the same moment actually. Less than 60 seconds.

He responded to the same post on Whispers less than 1 minute before he's seen on camera pulling into the HD parking lot.

Last response to the Whisper post - 9:24:28am

Seen on camera in parking lot : 9:25:17am

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I know the chronology, thanks, i posted it and discussed it last night. He 'd been texting with Mrs X on and off since before he went into CFA, if not before that too. Cooper and escapes was about 9 minutes before the light. The "caught light" texts by RH had moved on to what I imagine was RH thinking below his belt, imo.

 

[MsMarple]

Another version:

Leanna is the adult in the relationship. RH never grew up. Leanna handles the money, Leanna is responsible, Leanna is reserved, shy, isn't social, RH wants to be the life of the party, Leanna is deeply religious.

RH feels controlled by her, judged by her, and when he is passed over for a promotion for a position he thought he should have had, he also feels like a failure.

At some point in May RH insists on taking over handling their finances, and in short order charges $4,000 on his credit card "to rack up frequent flier points." Leanna finds out, freaks out about that gross irresponsibility, and the fall out is bad enough she takes Cooper and goes home to her family. She takes the large car seat because it's a long distance on highways and safer. Comfort has nothing to do with it.

After Leanna leaves, RH dives way deep into his online sex life, as well as hooking up with prostitutes. It's late May, the beginning of June. Nothing is resolved by Leanna returning, and in fact, RH has dug himself a deeper hole of guilt, which he deals with by "rebelling" against Leanna, the adult.

No more insulting his ability to take care of Cooper by having him send photos of Cooper's arrival. No more caring what she thinks about his sexting or whatever, or even worrying about her finding out.

On June 17 he suggests to friends they go to a movie, and he neither asks Leanna for permission or asks her to go. He tells Leanna he's going, she tells him she doesn't want him to go, he says he's going anyway.

He stays up late sexting on the 17th, and wakes up early---by 5:30AM or so, and starts sexting again. Cooper hasn't slept well for 2 nights because of all the tension and anger in the house. Both are tired.

Leanna leaves for work, RH is late leaving because he is texting. He's too late by the time he is getting close to the HD complex to get Cooper to daycare in time for breakfast, and it's too late to call to tell them to hold a breakfast. CFA it is. Not the drive thru because he's in the middle of a text exchange and wants to keep going with it. Inside, then.

He texts Mrs. X about his wife never letting him go play because that's his maturity level. He wants Mrs X to commiserate with him in order to fuel his self-pity and to help him rationalize that what he's been doing the last weeks is really ok. Right? We all need escapes, after all.

He doesn't call daycare to say he's running late after CFA because Cooper has had breakfast now, so what if he's "late," and frankly, he hasn't paid any attention to Cooper all morning. He straps Cooper in. He does not tell him any special thing or kiss him as he would later lie to LE about, thinking that made it sound like he and Cooper were super bonded all that morning, and of course, that he was definitely, absolutely not being negligent.

He forgot Cooper as soon as he buckled his own seatbelt, forgot him because he hadn't in any meaningful way connected with him all morning. Perhaps hadn't for days. RH was going through the motions of doing what he was supposed to be doing, but in reality he wasn't paying attention to anything but his online fantasy sex life.

At the light. When he parked. And on through the day.

I didn't present a "version," I listed the facts as we know them, with some commentary of my own opinion. Nothing that you said refutes the possibility that Ross was fed up with his life and decided to make a change as he sat at CFA, texting with women. In fact, your speculation bolsters the possibility that Ross was tired of kowtowing to his wife and having to deal with a child that put a cramp into his desire to be a single guy again.

While I understand that you want to present a plausible alternative scenario, there is no evidence for what you propose. All you're doing is creating a fictional account, dreamed up in your own head, of what you think happened in order to try and explain why Ross "forgot" Cooper. Try as you might, you can't get into Ross' head and speak for him. To pretend to do so by making up a story is just that - a story.

ETA: Hope, I think we're 90% in agreement. I think we diverge only in that I cannot exclude the possibility that Ross left Cooper in the car on purpose. FWIW, I believe it will be challenging to convince the jury that Ross acted maliciously and it may even also be difficult to prove felony murder. But, for me anyway, all the evidence points to Ross wanting to be free of his family and as such I cannot discount premeditation.

 

[katydid23]

I know the chronology, thanks, i posted it and discussed it last night. He 'd been texting with Mrs X on and off since before he went into CFA, if not before that too. Cooper and escapes was about 9 minutes before the light. The "caught light" texts by RH had moved on to what I imagine was RH thinking below his belt, imo.

It was all one big long conversation. And he totally pushed his son out of his mind during all of it.

 

[minor4th]

I haven't had a chance to listen to al of today's testimony.

Has there been testimony that Ross was actually "sexting" on the morning of and during the day that Cooper died? Or did we just have testimony that he was texting with these girls that he had exchanged naughty pictures with at some other time?

For purposes of determining guilt, I don't think it matters - I am just curious about how the state presented this and what actually happened.

 

[minor4th]

A lot of people are disgusted at Ross because he was sexting while his toddler was there with him. And because he was so distracted by the horny thoughts , he let his child die a painful, gruesome death. As far as I know, his sexting partner was not replying to him while her child was dying in her car.

She was not on trial---he was. So the defense did not need to have her look at every picture she sent, and be admonished by them on camera. If Ross was sitting alone somewhere , and his kid was safe, then I'd have less of problem with it.

Are you sure he was sexting while Cooper was with him?

 

[katydid23]

Are you sure he was sexting while Cooper was with him?

YEP. He started on Whisper at 6 am, continued until 9:24 am--------so some texts to a woman on there were sent while he was in CFA with Coop. And another sent while he was in the pking lot, ready to leave. One was sent literally one minute before he pulled into his parking spot at work.


edit---scroll up a few posts to #754---texts and their times

 

[Hope4More]

I didn't present a "version," I listed the facts as we know them, with some commentary of my own opinion. Nothing that you said refutes the possibility that Ross was fed up with his life and decided to make a change as he sat at CFA, texting with women. In fact, your speculation bolsters the possibility that Ross was tired of kowtowing to his wife and having to deal with a child that put a cramp into his desire to be a single guy again.

While I understand that you want to present a plausible alternative scenario, there is no evidence for what you propose. All you're doing is creating a fictional account, dreamed up in your own head, of what you think happened in order to try and explain why Ross "forgot" Cooper. Try as you might, you can't get into Ross' head and speak for him. To pretend to do so by making up a story is just that - a story.

You wove a narrative out of facts, I wove a different narrative using the same facts and more facts. Try as either one of us might, neither of us can get into Ross's head. Nor can anyone else. I don't assume I can. That's why I'm open to hearing the opinions of others, because weighing others' narratives (aka opinions) helps me evaluate the strength of my own.