Trial - Ross Harris #7

[LeeCR7]

Well, unlike his friends and family and coworkers, we know a great many of RH's dirty little secrets, and imo what's becoming sillier by the day is the State's argument that his dirty little secrets made Ross capable of murdering Cooper.

I wouldn't buy that as an argument. However, my feel is that the state is trying to show that none of the people thought RH was capable of cheating to the extent he did, yet there is solid evidence that RH shocked almost all of them with the extent of his infidelity. The state is saying the same thing could apply to poor Cooper; no one thought he was capable of harming him, but maybe he was.

In terms of motive, I'm not sure. To be fair, I have only been reading recaps and here so I may not be totally informed, but I didn't think they were saying that the cheating led directly to the death of Cooper; instead, that both the cheating and death were ways where RH tried to escape his responsibilities to his family. Again, I could have missed more about the motive.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just curious, if Ross had told all his buddies that he was cheating on his wife, and sexting teens, would it make anyone feel like he was a better person? Would it still not be a 'double life'?

The idea that you cannot truly *know* a person unless you know every secret about them, means that not one of my friends or family members knows me or can vouch for the type of person I am. I find that pretty silly.

:cheers:

 

[LeeCR7]

Sorry, double post.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I'm beginning to think that the only defense testimony that rang true was from Leanna when she ended with:

He destroyed my life. I’m humiliated. I may never trust anybody again, the way that I did. If I never see him again after this day, that’s fine.”

Too bad she didn't start her testimony with that line of thinking, it's a shame every other friend/family member didn't have the guts to say it themselves.

:thinking: guess we are watching different trials again... I have heard disappointment being said on the witness stand. And how would RH destroyed any of these other friend/;coworkers lives? LH is who lost her child, found out her husband cheated on her. VERY different ends of the spectrum jmho

 

[katydid23]

What percentage of people who visit prostitutes tell their friends?

Very few, especially if married with children. And that is my point. Ross was stubbornly clinging to some very dark secrets.

 

[Hope4More]

I wouldn't buy that as an argument. However, my feel is that the state is trying to show that none of the people thought RH was capable of cheating to the extent he did, yet there is solid evidence that RH shocked almost all of them with the extent of his infidelity. The state is saying the same thing could apply to poor Cooper; no one thought he was capable of harming him, but maybe he was.

In terms of motive, I'm not sure. To be fair, I have only been reading recaps and here so I may not be totally informed, but I didn't think they were saying that the cheating led directly to the death of Cooper; instead, that both the cheating and death were ways where RH tried to escape his responsibilities to his family. Again, I could have missed more about the motive.

I don't think there's much doubt that the State is using the sexual double life meme to argue two things , one explicit, the other implied:


Explicit- yes, RH's double life reveals that he wanted to escape his responsibilities, etc.

Implicit- that the "depth" of his sexual transgressions, and the fact he could hide them so well, is evidence he was capable of murdering Cooper. An argument, to point out the obvious, that holds sway with a number of posters here.

 

[minor4th]

If I was planning on murdering my family member, I'd book a trip with them too.

And if you were planning a vacation with your family might you also book a trip?

 

[arkansasmimi]

Each of them rang true to me

JMHO difference is you don't already have him convicted and sentenced. You are actually weighing each witness and working towards finishing the trial. Some just bypassed that. Ya know why have a trial or innocent til proven guilty principal? ... OH but that is the way our judicial system is here in the US.

One of the most sacred principles in the American criminal justice system, holding that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty. In other words, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each essential element of the crime charged. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/presumption_of_innocence

 

[Gardenista]

Just curious, if Ross had told all his buddies that he was cheating on his wife, and sexting teens, would it make anyone feel like he was a better person? Would it still not be a 'double life'?

The idea that you cannot truly *know* a person unless you know every secret about them, means that not one of my friends or family members knows me or can vouch for the type of person I am. I find that pretty silly.

Yup. And the defense will use this to show the absurdity of the State's case.

 

[katydid23]

Just curious, if Ross had told all his buddies that he was cheating on his wife, and sexting teens, would it make anyone feel like he was a better person? Would it still not be a 'double life'?

The idea that you cannot truly *know* a person unless you know every secret about them, means that not one of my friends or family members knows me or can vouch for the type of person I am. I find that pretty silly.

I don't think it is silly at all. If someone is stealing money from their cash register at work every day, and their co-workers don't know, but they vouch for his character and say what a great employee he is, wouldn't that be silly?

And yes, if Ross had truly confided in those that were trying to counsel him, and told them the TRUTH about what he was really doing, then I would believe he was truly remorseful and wanting some help. But by pretending he was only going on Ashley Madison and looking at online, and not mentioning the hookups with strangers on his couch, and the minors and the hookers---that leads me to believe that he had no intentions of changing his behavior at all.

 

[PaperDoll]

I understand the State is showing Ross' character, and it's not a pretty one at that. All the things that Ross has done, doesn't make him a child killer in itself. HOWEVER, Cooper died in his care, needs to be investigated. Ross claims accident or forgot and I believe he thought he would get away with that, MO! To me the key evidence, and it's not whether he loved Cooper, a inch or 2 of car seat, etc., but, yes, here I go again, lol, but when he went to CFA, walked Cooper in and you all know the rest. If I were on that jury, I would be looking at his 30 second decision point, take Cooper to daycare or work and he choose work. I would be looking at the parking lot, 30 seconds in car and not seeing Cooper? The jurors saw the car and the car seat, I would HOPE they would really take that into consideration over all this other stuff about Ross. Some on that jury may wonder how he didn't see Cooper. Ross is tall and IMO would loom over the car seat. I'm smaller than Ross and in my SUV I would be able to see a toddler in the rear facing car seat. The lunch ordeal would be another big factor and why he didn't mention it to LE in his interview with them. He hesitated. To me these are the key to this whole trial. Some men cheat on their wives, some wives still stayed married to them. Some men love , some men will hide it from friends etc, while others may not. None of this makes a killer. But in Ross' case, you add it all up and you may find a motive, or not. I find motive.

UGH! I need to stop eating all this left over Halloween candy. :tantrum: Oh, and, GO CUBS!!!!!! I'm on your side.. WIN.. WIN..WIN...

 

[just the facts pls]

Very few, especially if married with children. And that is my point. Ross was stubbornly clinging to some very dark secrets.

Not only that, he was keeping things from friends and family who are obviously compassionate and sympathetic people.

Every day I find myself amazed at how privileged JRH is, what a good life he had, the kind and loving people around him, and how despite all that threw it all away on illicit sex.

 

[DeDee]

Boring is trying to get a reaction (his job) when he throws stuff out there like he has. Try to trip people up with the way they are asking questions. Each Def witness as paused, thought about how and what the actual question was, prior to answering, and if unsure of question witness asks State to explain or ask again But he has not gotten the reaction he has tried to many many times. Like when he went over the May 31, 2014 text messages between LH and RH. Then asked her if she knew that was the day and time RH met with the prostitute. She held her composure and went right along with her testimony. To blame witnesses as the State has tried to do about being rehearsed is kinda funny in a way. Kilgore is prepared. State is showing time and time again they weren't JMHO

I find both sides to be equally well prepared considering the Change in Venue. Chuck Boring was able to get Defense witnesses to admit that the illicit actions of the defendant were "different" from the JRH that they knew. It is a very different and dark side of JRH as proven by his ex-wife's testimony that he has humiliated her by conducting himself in such a reckless, selfish, risky business. Moreover, JRH was siphoning their finances to support his illicit activity. His job performance slacked off causing the team's productivity to suffer. Sex was dominating nearly his every waking moment. He had sex in the martial home. Cooper was observant and learning to talk. Something had to give. Unfortunately, it was Cooper whose life was extinguished.

It must be most difficult to launch and operate a prosecution or defense case when placed 300 miles from home. My prayers (good thoughts for the non-religious among us) go to all of the legal eagles and especially to this jury who has an arduous task ahead.

O/T The CFA job that JRH was seeking provided free child care. The job would be a step up the corp ladder. JMHO

 

[arkansasmimi]

Hmm. Not sure it meant the DT plans on recalling Stoddard, but one can only hope.

What I heard was Kilgore wanting everything about that potential Brady violation put on the record, including the fact the State still had not turned over the material, despite Boring's committing to the Court he would do so, on a date that had already passed.

That too, but the information that was obtained and the State has had in their possession since Nov 5 2015 had info about Dr Diamond in it. Kilgore doen't know when Stoddard went to the FBI. He did ask about it when had Kilgore on stand. And Judge has said well yall can talk among your selves, umm yep see how that has worked out... Kilgore getting it on the record.

ETA: Kilgore stated that day (that Monday ) that he wanted a subpoena for Stoddard. All I know not sure how ended up. Stoddard has been in the courtroom as of yesterday. He going to be back on jmho by someone or he wouldn't be in there still listening to testimony. does he not have other cases to attend to if he is done testifying

 

[katydid23]

Well, unlike his friends and family and coworkers, we know a great many of RH's dirty little secrets, and imo what's becoming sillier by the day is the State's argument that his dirty little secrets made Ross capable of murdering Cooper.

I don't understand why you think that is such a silly argument by the State.

Ross's compulsions and dirty secrets paint a picture of a very self indulgent, selfish, impulsive, immature narcissistic type of individual. Why would they ignore that type of behavior when trying to figure out if he had the compulsion to get rid of his kid?

 

[dizzychick]

:thinking: guess we are watching different trials again... I have heard disappointment being said on the witness stand. And how would RH destroyed any of these other friend/;coworkers lives? LH is who lost her child, found out her husband cheated on her. VERY different ends of the spectrum jmho

No he hurt many people. Her best friend was tore up I could see it, because she knows and loves Leanna she loved Ross too as I do my married friends and family. I flat do not get why Leanna's mom testified, she must not want to think someone could do this to a child much less her own grandchild. Denial aint just a river in Egypt

 

[Hope4More]

Today's testimony, Boring on cross soliciting from RH's coworker that Ross didnt seemed stressed about the project meeting, and that there was no reason for Ross to be stressed, given it was an initial meet and plan session.

1.Ross was assigned as project manager for the project, the first time he'd been given that responsibility.

Questions that raises-- Just how bad could his work performance have been to have been given that responsibility? And, is it unreasonable to believe Ross might have been stressed by taking on the rsponsiblity, given he was behind on other projects?

Related. The State wants on the one hand to say RH wasn't stressed on the 18th, but on the other hand, to argue RH was so stressed by his double life and ready to crack that he decided to kill Cooper that day. Which is it?

 

[SuperTmo]

I don't think there's much doubt that the State is using the sexual double life meme to argue two things , one explicit, the other implied:


Explicit- yes, RH's double life reveals that he wanted to escape his responsibilities, etc.

Implicit- that the "depth" of his sexual transgressions, and the fact he could hide them so well, is evidence he was capable of murdering Cooper. An argument, to point out the obvious, that holds sway with a number of posters here.

I don't think that is what the State is implying at all. They are implying that he hated his life and wanted out of it. His ex wouldn't leave him despite is constant cheating (and I don't buy that she didn't know he went outside of the marriage because he wasn't hiding it well, if at all...). Him cheating doesn't make him capable of killing Cooper. He killed Cooper; that isn't in dispute. But either his sex issues made him want to kill Cooper because he wanted out of his unhappy marriage OR he was so consumed by his sex issues that he neglected Cooper to the point of his death on the day he "forgot" him in the car.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I find both sides to be equally well prepared considering the Change in Venue. Chuck Boring was able to get Defense witnesses to admit that the illicit actions of the defendant were "different" from the JRH that they knew. It is a very different and dark side of JRH as proven by his ex-wife's testimony that he has humiliated her by conducting himself in such a reckless, selfish, risky business. Moreover, JRH was siphoning their finances to support his illicit activity. His job performance slacked off causing the team's productivity to suffer. Sex was dominating nearly his every waking moment. He had sex in the martial home. Cooper was observant and learning to talk. Something had to give. Unfortunately, it was Cooper whose life was extinguished.

It must be most difficult to launch and operate a prosecution or defense case when placed 300 miles from home. My prayers (good thoughts for the non-religious among us) go to all of the legal eagles and especially to this jury who has an arduous task ahead.

O/T The CFA job that JRH was seeking provided free child care. The job would be a step up the corp ladder. JMHO

RBBM. I don't think Boring "was able to get" them admit. I think all those things were a given. Facts known. But it was also proven by the Defense that there were MANY people who were aware of this side of RH life. Just they didn't know it was going on at the extent it was at the moment of Coopers death. And as far as child free child care. I have not seen where child care had been an issue in this case. And it was obvious that would been a step up, that why he applied. He had been passed over he felt, or that has been the testimony. IIRC

I am sure it is hard being so far away. But it is the fault of the Judge that cause it to happen to begin with. She allowed so now she and the court are paying the price. And her decisions helped cause the public opinions to be as they are. Misinformation highway. JMHO

 

[rob]

The defense keeps asking the witnesses what do they think about RH.
Is he a great guy/friend? Oh yes.
Did you know about all this other crap? Oh no, I never dreamed.
Was he a good dad? Oh, yes, a great dad.
Would he kill his child? Oh no, never.

What they know and what he is, are not necessarily the same thing. Whether they 'think' he would kill his child has no bearing on whether he 'would' kill his child.
Truth is, do you ever REALLY know someone, if they don't want you to?

MOO