Trial - Ross Harris #8

[arkansasmimi]

This witness was not there to weigh every piece of information and tell the jury whether Ross forgot his baby or deliberately murdered him.

He was there to explain how it can happen and in fact has happened hundreds of times.

When he said there is nothing unique about this case compared to the hundreds of others - that's the crux of his testimony. We can draw the conclusion that Ross had a memory lapse just like hundreds of other parents have. And the things that point to that possibility are: sleep deprivation, external distraction from complex traffic situation, stress about a project at work, and habit of driving straight from CFA to work. Those are the kinds of things that are seen in this and other cases of such fatal memory lapses

RBBM. THIS^^^^^ It was brought up big time in the Hearings. Ultimate Issue...
Rule 704. Opinion on an Ultimate Issue
(a) In General — Not Automatically Objectionable. An opinion is not objectionable just because it embraces an ultimate issue.

(b) Exception. In a criminal case, an expert witness must not state an opinion about whether the defendant did or did not have a mental state or condition that constitutes an element of the crime charged or of a defense. Those matters are for the trier of fact alone. https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_704


2014 Georgia Code
Title 24 - EVIDENCE
Chapter 7 - OPINIONS AND EXPERT TESTIMONY
§ 24-7-704 - Ultimate issue opinion

Universal Citation: GA Code § 24-7-704 (2014)
(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this Code section, testimony in the form of an opinion or inference otherwise admissible shall not be objectionable because it embraces an ultimate issue to be decided by the trier of fact.

(b) No expert witness testifying with respect to the mental state or condition of an accused in a criminal proceeding shall state an opinion or inference as to whether the accused did or did not have the mental state or condition constituting an element of the crime charged or of a defense thereto. Such ultimate issues are matters for the trier of fact alone.

 

[LyndyLoo]

Ah...got it. I wonder if Brewer has ever testified before this...I missed the first couple of minutes

Does it matter really..He came across as someone who repeated his and Dr. D's hypothesis..BUT DT didn't give them ALL evidence... I would never blame him ..regardless of his testimonial experience....It appears even Dr. D. refuses to testify now that his understudy was crucified on the stand today..But have to hand it to him..He was responding honestly..however.. redirect he did actually agree with Kilgore ( oppositely to his cross answers ) :facepalm:

Maybe I'm just old..But do appreciate a nice looking young man :facepalm: when I see 'em!!

 

[SuperTmo]

Its so sad really. Every day I put my damn heat shield up in my front car window. Whether it's next to me in the passneger seat or behind me when I park. Because I don't want my car to be so hot when I get in it and I don't want my dashboard to fade and crack. But people can't figure out something to not forget their precious baby? Geez! Just make it a damn habit to look in the back seat before you lock the car. Habit. Whether in a hurry or not. That's your routine. If it's routine to lock the car it can be routine to check the back. Heck, despite not having babies or toddlers, I check the back before I leave for fear a stray animal jumped in when I was getting in.

If this sort of thing was prosecuted and the person convicted every single time it happens, I bet you people would stop "forgetting" their kids in the car. While I personally do not believe FBS is a real, truly accidental thing, I am willing to say that IF it is having a steep punishment will likely encourage parents to look twice, put their bag next to the baby, tie a string to their wrist and the car door, whatever it takes to make absolute sure they don't forget.

 

[minor4th]

I feel like a vast sum of questions posed to him by boring ended with boring saying were you aware of.....and memory dude saying, no I didn't know that in one form or another

But the witness never gave his opinion about what happened in Ross' case. He merely explained the phenomenon and pointed to certain circumstances in Ross' situation that could have contributed to memory lapse or protected against memory lapse.

The things Boring was asking him about do not change any of that. He already explained that cues might trigger the failed memory and also explained why they might not.


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[PenElaine]

Soooo confused about the DTs declaration that they will be done by noon tomorrow??? I like many figured Dr Diamond would be their biggest witness and on the stand for at least a couple of days. Can u imagine being on verdict watch Tuesday? How could we even focus when the country's biggest "verdict" is coming down the same day? Honestly don't know how I could decently split my attention.

 

[DaleTray]

IIRC he got the witness to agree all of those things could have triggered the memory

A point that has been often discussed but that I can't wrap my arms around. This is being spoken from a man that quite often has a very poor memory. Many, to most, feel there were several small indicators that could have, or should have, jogged RH memory that he may have forgotten CH inside the car June 18 morning. If I had thought I had dropped my son off at daycare then went to work, my mind more than likely wouldn't have been refreshed to the possibility until I physically learned my mistake by either, later seeing my son, or someone calling me inquiring, where is CH. My mind would have transferred the responsibility of CH and his little day to daycare until he was picked up. My mind would have been a normal day (work,lunch, chatting with clients/co-workers). I could have received my daily email from daycare never giving one iota of thought regarding my dropping him off that morning. With my mind 100% assuming CH was in daycare, just like most every day, I'm sure thoughts of my son would enter my brain (I want to take my little buddy to the zoo this weekend as the weather sounds perfect,or a Braves game) w/o my morning son daycare drop-off ever entering my mind. I just don't see what would force my mind to make the jump from any normal drop-off day to did I drop my son off today. Maybe men and women think differently and refresh these memories differently. Or, maybe it's just my brain is wired differently. Somewhat along these same lines, much discussion about how much time it takes to forget or get distracted. Much emphasis has been placed on 30-40 seconds before the turn. I see the distraction jump needing 1 second. Maybe you receive a cell call or text, maybe work enters your mind. Whatever the distraction that takes your brain from one thought to a different thought and then forgetting to jump back on track a second or few seconds later...all the while continuing your mindless drive from habit. Again, I clearly know I am wired a little differently than most maternal instinct, protective, loving mom's...with me loving my son just as much as any of those mom's. I clearly understand many other factors come into play, but, am just saying I could see how someone could legitimately have this horrendously happen

 

[minor4th]

If this sort of thing was prosecuted and the person convicted every single time it happens, I bet you people would stop "forgetting" their kids in the car. While I personally do not believe FBS is a real, truly accidental thing, I am willing to say that IF it is having a steep punishment will likely encourage parents to look twice, put their bag next to the baby, tie a string to their wrist and the car door, whatever it takes to make absolute sure they don't forget.

Maybe it would raise awareness, but prosecution is not going to be a stronger deterrent than a dead baby.

 

[NCTeacher]

Does it matter really..He came across as someone who repeated his and Dr. D's hypothesis..BUT DT didn't give them ALL evidence... I would never blame him ..regardless of his testimonial experience....It appears even Dr. D. refuses to testify now that his understudy was crucified on the stand today..But have to hand it to him..He was responding honestly..however.. redirect he did actually agree with Kilgore ( oppositely to his cross answers ) :facepalm:

Maybe I'm just old..But do appreciate a nice looking young man :facepalm: when I see 'em!!

Yes, I found him pleasant to look at as well.

 

[Hope4More]

I did the same thing and I agree - especially if he is the lead in to Diamond.

Definitely agree now with your thought that Kilgore deliberately used Mr. Memory as bait, including not supplying him with complete case info on some specific key points he anticipated Boring would bring up on cross. I think he wanted a preview so he could better prep Diamond, and he knew Boring is arrogant enough to tear into Mr. Memory , not realizing he'd tipped his hand.

LOL. It's strategy. Sacrifice a pawn to advance your Queen. The DT is too meticulous and well prepared to allow an unintentional ambush. jmo.

I also still very much believe Mr. Memory laid down, effectively, several crucial points that the jury could not have missed.

 

[GA_Peach]

I am relistening to the testimony from this morning. Dr. Brewer stated that his conclusion that JRH was fatigued/stressed was based entirely on the one email sent to Mr. Brown at 12:30 a.m. on June 18. That was the only piece of evidence pointing to work stress. Wow. I missed that this morning.

http://www.wildabouttrial.com/trial_videos/justin-ross-harris-trial-archive/

Day 21 - Morning Session around 2:51:30 into the video.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I would bet that they have a chart with timelines on it for Closing.. I have to go back and listen but it seemed like Boring on the fly went and gave the times he had been up the last 4 days, and then he got more sleep (couple hours of no texting/chat) and the Dr said something about yes because he was fatigued right. And the whole not shaving part, I thought that was interesting that he brought up.

We have the advantage of going back and reviewing the testimony... surely the jury wont do that too.

 

[Gardenista]

I think Dr. Diamond is a crucial, and wonderful witness for the defense. But I would've thought his testimony would last at least two days with direct, cross and rebuttal. What's up with that? Maybe his testimony is going to be very limited as to the generalities of FBS? I can't think of another witness who has 50 slides. But what would his slides show? What about FBS is out on slides?
So confusing. I'm in trial tomorrow so I won't get to check in until much later. And Diamond's is the only testimony I'm really interested in watching.

DT likely can't afford to pay him for two full days when they are only getting $50-60/hour

 

[arkansasmimi]

Lol but slide amount increased substantially ! Going to be a long morning...

I see that no different than the State going back and redoing their scans. JMHO (after the Defense pointed out the State was wrong to begin with) JMHO that was something the State should have caught right off the bat with all their smart people going over records. To me that put the State evidence in a bad light ..JMHO)

 

[TexMex]

But the witness never gave his opinion about what happened in Ross' case. He merely explained the phenomenon and pointed to certain circumstances in Ross' situation that could have contributed to memory lapse or protected against memory lapse.

The things Boring was asking him about do not change any of that. He already explained that cues might trigger the failed memory and also explained why they might not.


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It just seemed like very little useful information. People lose their car keys or aren't sure if they locked the front door. I already know that happens...I'm sure the jury does too. All the defense did was give the pros a chance to run through all the evidence with this kid who wasn't prepared enough
JMO

 

[minor4th]

A point that has been often discussed but that I can't wrap my arms around. This is being spoken from a man that quite often has a very poor memory. Many, to most, feel there were several small indicators that could have, or should have, jogged RH memory that he may have forgotten CH inside the car June 18 morning. If I had thought I had dropped my son off at daycare then went to work, my mind more than likely wouldn't have been refreshed to the possibility until I physically learned my mistake by either, later seeing my son, or someone calling me inquiring, where is CH. My mind would have transferred the responsibility of CH and his little day to daycare until he was picked up. My mind would have been a normal day (work,lunch, chatting with clients/co-workers). I could have received my daily email from daycare never giving one iota of thought regarding my dropping him off that morning. With my mind 100% assuming CH was in daycare, just like most every day, I'm sure thoughts of my son would enter my brain (I want to take my little buddy to the zoo this weekend as the weather sounds perfect,or a Braves game) w/o my morning son daycare drop-off ever entering my mind. I just don't see what would force my mind to make the jump from any normal drop-off day to did I drop my son off today. Maybe men and women think differently and refresh these memories differently. Or, maybe it's just my brain is wired differently. Somewhat along these same lines, much discussion about how much time it takes to forget or get distracted. Much emphasis has been placed on 30-40 seconds before the turn. I see the distraction jump needing 1 second. Maybe you receive a cell call or text, maybe work enters your mind. Whatever the distraction that takes your brain from one thought to a different thought and then forgetting to jump back on track a second or few seconds later...all the while continuing your mindless drive from habit. Again, I clearly know I am wired a little differently than most maternal instinct, protective, loving mom's...with me loving my son just as much as any of those mom's.

This is precisely what the expert was explaining today. In the blink of an eye, your attention is focused elsewhere and lose awareness of your child in the car - not realizing your shift in awareness, you form a mistaken belief that the child is safe and sound where he's supposed to be.

I can totally see how that could happen and that none of these so-called triggers would clue you in because you don't see them as relevant or significant.

It doesn't happen more often because remembering your child is the most important thing you ever have to remember. Despite that importance, it does happen when circumstances line up in just the wrong way.

 

[katydid23]

Maybe it's a smart watch and he's reading messages.,

maybe he is on Whisper...lol

 

[monkeypants]

A point that has been often discussed but that I can't wrap my arms around. This is being spoken from a man that quite often has a very poor memory. Many, to most, feel there were several small indicators that could have, or should have, jogged RH memory that he may have forgotten CH inside the car June 18 morning. If I had thought I had dropped my son off at daycare then went to work, my mind more than likely wouldn't have been refreshed to the possibility until I physically learned my mistake by either, later seeing my son, or someone calling me inquiring, where is CH. My mind would have transferred the responsibility of CH and his little day to daycare until he was picked up. My mind would have been a normal day (work,lunch, chatting with clients/co-workers). I could have received my daily email from daycare never giving one iota of thought regarding my dropping him off that morning. With my mind 100% assuming CH was in daycare, just like most every day, I'm sure thoughts of my son would enter my brain (I want to take my little buddy to the zoo this weekend as the weather sounds perfect,or a Braves game) w/o my morning son daycare drop-off ever entering my mind. I just don't see what would force my mind to make the jump from any normal drop-off day to did I drop my son off today. Maybe men and women think differently and refresh these memories differently. Or, maybe it's just my brain is wired differently. Somewhat along these same lines, much discussion about how much time it takes to forget or get distracted. Much emphasis has been placed on 30-40 seconds before the turn. I see the distraction jump needing 1 second. Maybe you receive a cell call or text, maybe work enters your mind. Whatever the distraction that takes your brain from one thought to a different thought and then forgetting to jump back on track a second or few seconds later...all the while continuing your mindless drive from habit. Again, I clearly know I am wired a little differently than most maternal instinct, protective, loving mom's...with me loving my son just as much as any of those mom's. I clearly understand many other factors come into play, but, am just saying I could see how someone could legitimately have this horrendously happen

Even so, that car seat proximity to RH was astounding and he was in the car 30 secs gathering his things and reaching across the car to get them. He's a large man in a tight space....and a bright red car seat.

 

[katydid23]

But the witness never gave his opinion about what happened in Ross' case. He merely explained the phenomenon and pointed to certain circumstances in Ross' situation that could have contributed to memory lapse or protected against memory lapse.

The things Boring was asking him about do not change any of that. He already explained that cues might trigger the failed memory and also explained why they might not.


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I thought the bolded portion, the things that can protect one from memory lapse, worked against the DT. Because both parents said they had big fears about Cooper being left in the car. And the defendant had only days previously, seen a video about it, and commented about how bad it would be if it happened to his son. And he mentioned the 'Take A Second Look' movement, So NOT taking simple precautions, seems negligent in itself, imo.

 

[Gardenista]

I completely agree with you. This witness looked repeatedly stunned and gave visual cues that he was actually starting to disbelieve this theory on Ross (nodding his head, grimaces, facial expressions). Obviously, I have no proof, but methinks that if someone randomly approached this guy 2 months from now and asked him if that theory still flies---I bet he would say "no comment."

I felt the prosecution definitely, definitely had the upper hand on this. The defense was surely reeling.

He made so many weird expressions during direct I wondered if he had a neurological disorder.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Tonight on Websleuths Radio We go inside the courtroom and find out the latest in the trial of Ross Harris
Harris is accused of deliberately killing his son by leaving him in a hot car to die.
Cathy from @courtchatter has the details.
Listen to Websleuths Radio RIGHT HERE after 10:30 PM Eastern TONIGHT

http://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag