Trial - Ross Harris #8

[DaleTray]

Can we name tomorrows testimony "50 Files of Grey"?

 

[arkansasmimi]

He was quite pleasant, I feel sorry for him as well. But I don't think his performance was a reflection on him, rather...a reflection on the defense. Does anyone know why McRea is supposedly not testifying anymore??

Who is that? That a new name for me. Is it possibly the Forensic Pathologist? TIA

 

[TexMex]

Even so, that car seat proximity to RH was astounding and he was in the car 30 secs gathering his things and reaching across the car to get them. He's a large man in a tight space....and a bright red car seat.

He also said the car seat being in sight is a trigger to remember

 

[NCTeacher]

Who is that? That a new name for me. Is it possibly the Forensic Pathologist? TIA

It was all over social media that Ross's longtime friend Ben McRea (who now goes by Rachel McRea) was supposed to testify on Ross's behalf. Now, s/he no longer is.

 

[GA_Peach]

Who is that? That a new name for me. Is it possibly the Forensic Pathologist? TIA

No. He/she was in Ross's wedding.

Depending on who testifies tomorrow, we will have at least three witnesses who were previously scheduled to testify no longer testifying. These four witnesses were scheduled to testify at some point in time - Dr. Diamond, Dr. A, the forensic pathologist, and Ross's friend.

 

[katydid23]

Definitely agree now with your thought that Kilgore deliberately used Mr. Memory as bait, including not supplying him with complete case info on some specific key points he anticipated Boring would bring up on cross. I think he wanted a preview so he could better prep Diamond, and he knew Boring is arrogant enough to tear into Mr. Memory , not realizing he'd tipped his hand.

LOL. It's strategy. Sacrifice a pawn to advance your Queen. The DT is too meticulous and well prepared to allow an unintentional ambush. jmo.

I also still very much believe Mr. Memory laid down, effectively, several crucial points that the jury could not have missed.

But it gives the State a chance to look at their cross and what worked and what didn't and what they missed too. It is like a 'free chance' at rehearsal for them too. I don't see it as an ambush on the State. Imo, they came off better in the eyes of the jury, quite possibly.

Why is it arrogant for Boring to tear into a witness, but not for Kilgore or his cohorts?

 

[monkeypants]

It was all over social media that Ross's longtime friend Ben McRea (who now goes by Rachel McRea) was supposed to testify on Ross's behalf. Now, s/he no longer is.

You lost me...was there a gender change there?

 

[arkansasmimi]

It appears to be a Rolex, and he only looks at it for an instant, but does it repetitively.

I sure we all have little tics, (giggle sorry no pun intended). And they are all in a stressful situation (all the lawyers). Guess it makes sense. They are animated for sure. Evans is the one I see looking towards the Jury a lot. Did anyone notice the balding guy on the Def side. I had thought he was LH attorney (he was also at the PC hearing and Kilgore whispered in his ear a few times then) I thinking he must be an investigator for the Def? I thinking that the guy behind the State is the same. IIRC Kilgore pointed the one behind the State out to a witness the other day.

 

[DaleTray]

Even so, that car seat proximity to RH was astounding and he was in the car 30 secs gathering his things and reaching across the car to get them. He's a large man in a tight space....and a bright red car seat.

I understand your position. That's why I mentioned many other factors to consider come into play. My intent was to just express i could see how this could happen. Actually, I am surprised it doesn't happen more. I hope FBS info doesn't grow so public on MSM that it becomes a murder avenue for bad parents needing a method.
I am guessing we will either have car seat mftr's or auto mftr's coming up w technology soon to help FBS. We have audio reminders to remind to turn off headlights. We have weight sensors in seats to automatically turn off airbags. I am sure it could easily be done and hopefully will be soon.

 

[TexMex]

But it gives the State a chance to look at their cross and what worked and what didn't and what they missed too. It is like a 'free chance' at rehearsal for them too. I don't see it as an ambush on the State. Imo, they came off better in the eyes of the jury, quite possibly.

Why is it arrogant for Boring to tear into a witness, but not for Kilgore or his cohorts?

Can you imagine a Juan Martinez cross of Brewer? Boring did fine IMO

 

[LyndyLoo]

I thought the bolded portion, the things that can protect one from memory lapse, worked against the DT. Because both parents said they had big fears about Cooper being left in the car. And the defendant had only days previously, seen a video about it, and commented about how bad it would be if it happened to his son. And he mentioned the 'Take A Second Look' movement, So NOT taking simple precautions, seems negligent in itself, imo.

Yikes Kaydid..I have left the house with my list of shopping on my desk...BUT even though it wasn't my grandbaby..once I walked thru the store's door I remembered..Yikes forgot my list. So why in the Heck does a parent forget their child? It just does NOT Compute !! Besides he did have an actual motive..than many wish to dispel..His lifestyle required unleashing ties to marriage and financial responsibilities....never ind his soon to happen firing..and denial of Job prospect...and tho Judge refused to allow Insurance payout with Cooper's death..I'm sure that too played into his calculations...

He went on and on about his fears of HOT CAR deaths and stipulated in interview about watching video's blah blah..SO it's not something he never considered and was some idiot who never knew the consequences!!

This case has no connection to any other case documented when forgotten innocently..tho there are some who cause similar deaths because of sure negligence..BUT ROSS and his wife were well aware of the danger.... BUT Ross thought he could rid his financial drain..be able to divorce due to stress..and move onto high profile of advocate for HOTcaredeaths..and make$$$$$

Can say it enough..but Ross is a Mental Midget..he only see's the goal..NOT the path to it and all the Pitfalls and lies he will have to sell in order to get his wish...

I told the story to my youngest this evening..He said My stomach aches..unbelieveable ..NO way can any parent do what Ross did unless he wanted to.. ..

Parents really do have to look at themselves now..and willing to bet..most if not ALL could ever do what Ross did!! 22 month old child in carseat inches from his elbow..and NOT KNOW he was there!!!!! ..RE-DIC-U-LOUS!!

 

[arkansasmimi]

Does it matter really..He came across as someone who repeated his and Dr. D's hypothesis..BUT DT didn't give them ALL evidence... I would never blame him ..regardless of his testimonial experience....It appears even Dr. D. refuses to testify now that his understudy was crucified on the stand today..But have to hand it to him..He was responding honestly..however.. redirect he did actually agree with Kilgore ( oppositely to his cross answers ) :facepalm:

Maybe I'm just old..But do appreciate a nice looking young man :facepalm: when I see 'em!!

RBBM, Whether Dr. Diamond will or will not testify is only people speculating on here and on other social media. We have no factual information to this. Will have to wait for trial to begin in the morning. Also whether he does or does not, WE will not know who decision it is unless, in case if if he did not, either Def or Dr. Diamond speak to media about it. Otherwise just speculation and rumor. JMHO

 

[GA_Peach]

Here is the one line of questioning that I wish CB pursued today.

Your theory assumes that a memory failure actually occurred, correct? [Dr. Brewer repeatedly stated "assuming a memory failure occurred."]
If the defendant actually left his child in the car on purpose, would any of those triggers been effective?

Or similarly,
Is it possible that the trigger was actually effective and the defendant chose to ignore it?

 

[NCTeacher]

You lost me...was there a gender change there?

Yes. Ben McRea is currently transitioning into a woman and now goes by the name Rachel.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Soooo confused about the DTs declaration that they will be done by noon tomorrow??? I like many figured Dr Diamond would be their biggest witness and on the stand for at least a couple of days. Can u imagine being on verdict watch Tuesday? How could we even focus when the country's biggest "verdict" is coming down the same day? Honestly don't know how I could decently split my attention.

I don't think the jury will get the case until Wednesday at the earliest. Too much to do between now and then, and the half day on Tues. They have Def to finish, State Rebuttal, Closing, and the charging orders to go over before the jury getting the case. The Judge isn't going to give them the case then send them home afterwards. JMHO

ETA: there are some issues JMHO that will be argued again on the sentence for the one charge with Life, that has since been changed in sentencing. I see the judge siding with the State but a big argument going to go on. JMHO . The Defense has already talked about certain issues of this is the "first" something and may be heard by Appeal Court.

 

[Hope4More]

KEY POINTS MADE BY MR. BREWER (“MEMORY MAN&#8221 ON DIRECT (translated into English and condensed):
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1. It is scientifically proven that yes, it is possible to forget.

“If you have something you intend to do, but your routine/habitual behavior is COUNTER to that thing, you can lose track of what you intend to do and lapse into your routine behavior.

This has been demonstrated in research studies; the why of it is that in your mind (at the biochemical level), what you INTEND to do is literally not as powerful as what you ROUTINELY do

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2. DISTRACTION-INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL, contribute to that forgetting.

Distractions defined as—something in your environment that demands some level of concentration from you.

Kilgore suggests-- a phone call or music on the radio can be external distraction?

Brewer: YES to phone call (I think I know where Kilgore and Diamond will go with that)

Not so much the radio.


Process of forgetting: distraction, mind wanders, mind defaults to routine.


3. ASSIGNING A HIGH LEVEL OF IMPORTANCE TO GOAL

Really key, because it addresses the “a baby is not a cup of coffee” argument.

Kilgore: Does the level of importance one assigns a thing affect/change one’s ability to remember?

Brewer: YES. If you know there are consequences for NOT remembering, you are more likely to remember. You prioritize your goals.

Kilgore- so, you’re less likely to have memory failure, but are you saying it can’t happen?

Brewer: NO.

It happens. There is nothing unique in this case relative to other cases where this (hot car deaths ) has happened.

And, there are other examples of “forgetting” that have resulted in fatalities: surgeons who forget instruments in patients they are operating on, pilots who forget part of their preflight checklist, and the plane crashes, killing all on board.

(In other words, Brewer is providing powerful examples of how the importance assigned to what must be done doesn’t always make the crucial difference, even in circumstances where clearly the person responsible for the fatality/fatalities had nothing to gain, and everything to lose by "forgetting."

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5. CUES: (triggers) Help us remember “appropriate behavior,” (translation) something in your environment that prompts you to remember what you meant to do.

There are different kinds of cues, with varying degrees of ability to alert you to remember.

Example : Leaving one shoe in your car, next to your child.

Kilgore: Does leaving yourself an intentional cue meant so you can’t possibly forget?

Brewer: NO. The shoe, etc. supports remembering in case you forget. It is a backup, a Plan B.

Just because at some point you become aware you have left a shoe in the car does NOT mean that triggers you remembering your child is there. Probably does, but not necessarily. It just ensures you can’t skip the step of going back to check. It is an indirect cue.

(In other words, this goes to negligence. Brewer is saying that RH might not have remembered Cooper even if had left that shoe in the car).
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Examples of direct cues:

Hearing a child in the back seat is a cue (suggesting…&#8230
Seeing your child in the back seat (hello, Boring)

Examples of indirect cues:

Talking about child, seeing pictures (obvious)
These cues are not direct triggers, because they aren’t signaling anything is different, or anything needs to be tended to.

They CAN cue, and we can just remember….but..not necessarily

As opposed to—a call from daycare saying—Cooper is not here, which would compel attention and consideration.

(In other words: This did not happen. RH would be culpable had he received such a cue and not responded to it).



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Kilgore: Rapidity of memory loss-forgetting. How quickly can info be lost?

Brewer: “anything you aren’t thinking about you’re in the process of forgetting.’

Kilgore : Can this rapid loss of memory be researched and studied?

Yes. Do it or lose it. One can forget as quickly as in 30 seconds.


FALSE MEMORY

Definition: An assumption that gets made based on one’s routine behavior.

Brewer: Parents believe they did what they meant to do—drop their children off at daycare, because nothing says they did not, and they have no reason to question themselves.

As Ross told police when he was being interviewed : “I thought I had taken Cooper to daycare, I could have sworn I took him to daycare.”

And that happens in other cases like this. His statement to LE is entirely consistent with having a false memory. .

 

[monkeypants]

Yes. Ben McRea is currently transitioning into a woman and now goes by the name Rachel.

Wow this trial is like an onion...so many layers

 

[PaperDoll]

Even so, that car seat proximity to RH was astounding and he was in the car 30 secs gathering his things and reaching across the car to get them. He's a large man in a tight space....and a bright red car seat.

Yup, the car seat :gaah:.. lol.. I believe with all my heart that he saw Cooper in that car seat. AND, AND, AND, Ross remembered, in detail, what he did that day. So there is no memory lapse here, IMO, for Ross.

 

[GA_Peach]

The insert video button isn't working for me (sorry), but I encourage people to watch the 4 or 5 minutes of testimony starting at 3:20:38 in the below video. It's when the exchange gets a little testy, and Dr. Brewer denies that Ross knows more about hot car deaths than any other parent.

https://livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/5184001/videos/140868793

Hope4More, post #139 gave me a good laugh. My notes from this morning's testimony look nothing like yours. While the main bullet points are the same, my included quotes tell a completely different story. It just reinforces how two people see the same information so differently. :loveyou:

 

[Hope4More]

I thought Kilgore missed a great opportunity in not going back to RH's cumulative nights of sleep deprivation. Boring, on cross, brought out that he had not slept much in the 3 nights before the 18th, in fact, that he had slept more the night before than the he had the other nights...That seemed to surprise Brewer, and I would think that that could have been used to his advantage in claiming fatigue..If I were on the jury, I would have caught that, but he didn't go back to it. Of course, this is all based on whether you buy the memory failure due to distractions, fatigue, stress...

He's reserving that for Dr. Diamond, methinks.