trial thread: 04/03/2012

[flipflop]

..and if following the defense theory..would you THEN get in the car for the ride back with the whacko and the hammer if you were innocent???or would you take a chance and make a run for it or even...just maybe...be a HERO and do all you could to protect whatever was left of that little girl. Geesh.:banghead::twocents: The only way I can see them getting back in that car together is if they acted together IMO

If MR was completely innocent and thought TLM was babysitting (all the way to MF...ya right!), as soon as she pulled out the hammer and went nuts with it....he could have taken off and left her. The nearest OPP station is less than 5km away. But no, he stuck around to help her clean up and gave her a ride home, why would he do this if he was just an innocent bystander. I believe "good things are coming my way" was written in regards to the plan that the pair had set out to accomplish on April 8, 2009.

 

[Ardy]

(BBM)

Standard judge's instructions to the jury:

Every juror must be impartial, which means that every juror must approach the trial with an open mind and without preconceived ideas. He or she must decide the case solely on the basis of the evidence at trial and the instructions on the law from (me) the trial judge.

I'm having a hard time believing that an impartial jury is going to base their verdict in any way, shape, or form on the colour of the defendant's clothing. To have this brought up during deliberations for debate seems petty and ludicrous. Any subconscious deduction about it should be repressed. It's a trial, not "What Not To Wear". A man's whole life is at stake here.

JMO

They wouldn't of course.

There are 12 jurors, and the group wouldn't tolerate such discussions from one or two jurors, as they would be not only be non productive, but would violate the judge's charge to the jury...........which most jurors take very, very seriously.

 

[snoofer]

:goodpost: Should say GREAT POST. I've thought this many of times when using that similes. Smart thinking SB. :seeya:

BTW I only give credit where credit is due. Thanks.

skirt, tights and panties:twocents:

 

[Ardy]

Tori was still wearing her shirt when she was found..from what we know to date it wasn't removed for any reason...IF she was sexually attacked one would think they would be able to find some fibers etc. on it to connect to MR as he would have had to be very close to her body if he had done what some think he did.. lets just assume that he did do that awful deed...why not remove the shirt and throw it away with the rest of her clothing..why take the chance and leave it on her...doesn't make sense to me:banghead: :moo::moo:

Good point.

As I recall, MR was also described by TLM as being naked from the waist down, but having his shirt on. TLM also said that VS was sitting in MR's lap, so both their shirts could have touched each other.

Maybe there will be some forensic evidence on that.

 

[Macright]

Well that would be suggesting that MR was expecting the body to be found and that it would be linked to him. IMO, only the items of clothing that were impeding a sexual assault would need to be removed.

And Dr Pollanen testified that the shirt was hard to make out on the remains due to decompositional fluid so it's unlikely that any fibers would have been found on the shirt. I also understood that MR discarded the shirt he was wearing according to TLM.

MOO

:moo: it could also confirm that he did nothing at all to her..why would he expect the body to be found and leave evidence of him on her...if he did what some think to Tori don't you think she would have done an awful lot of moving around in that shirt... it looks like a rather long shirt.... why not chuck it like the rest of her clothing...:maddening:

 

[roseofsharon]

Being mixed with TS's DNA/blood is a different story.

My post was in reference to finding MTR's seminal fluid only.

MOO

 

[snoofer]

If MR was completely innocent and thought TLM was babysitting (all the way to MF...ya right!), as soon as she pulled out the hammer and went nuts with it....he could have taken off and left her. The nearest OPP station is less than 5km away. But no, he stuck around to help her clean up and gave her a ride home, why would he do this if he was just an innocent bystander. I believe "good things are coming my way" was written in regards to the plan that the pair had set out to accomplish on April 8, 2009.

good point!:twocents:

 

[roseofsharon]

Couldn't the shirt have been removed and then put back on?

MOO

 

[flipflop]

Couldn't the shirt have been removed and then put back on?

MOO

possibly, but why???

 

[roseofsharon]

If he did assault TS, to prevent the fibre transfer from his shirt to TS's.



MOO

 

[Ardy]

If a body is never found...does it mean there was no murder. People have been trialed and convicted in absence of a body.:twocents:

True..........but there has to be an awful lot of supporting evidence.

 

[flipflop]

If he did assault TS, to prevent the fibre transfer from his shirt to TS's.



MOO

it would make sense to remove it, but can't see him bothering to put it back on her.

 

[swedie]

But again, the jury would have to assume that TLM was solely responsible for the kidnapping for some reason and they have not been given any evidence to that effect. They'd have to believe that Victoria went along with the abduction as if she was being babysat by a trusted friend. That at no point during her ride to Guelph was she ever scared or worried that she was being driven away from Woodstock by two virtual strangers. They'd have to believe that at no point, until after they had left Guelph, was Victoria ever being hidden on the floor of the backseat. Even though there are no witnesses, either BA or anyone who either drove or walked past the car on the highway, in the TH or in the HD parking lot, who ever saw Victoria in the car.

And you'd also have to believe that MR took one very long walk, very far from the scene of the crime as to not have heard or seen anything amiss. He didn't hear Victoria utter a yell or scream, he didn't hear TLM removing her clothing and possibly sexually assaulting her, kicking her, opening his trunk, removing items from a shopping bag and wielding a hammer to her.

Then you'd have to believe that he returned from his long walk to this scene and because a teenage, gangsta drug addict told him, a 28yr old adult man, that he was just as involved, he agreed to help clean up the crime scene, dispose of a child and drive back to Woodstock, never to speak of what he had seen. Even though by the next day, the entire town, the local LE and the OPP were in a panic trying to locate her.

And he kept quiet about what he knew, perpetuating the rumour that her mother had a large drug debt and that she was likely missing because of that. He converted his car to a two seater, just because, and met a new woman within 5 days of the crime and just went on with his life as if nothing happened.

And of course when he was arrested, he did absolutely nothing to tell his side of the story and clear his name of the sexual assault when he had the chance to do so by leading LE to the crime scene and Victoria's remains.

All of the above scenario defies all logic IMO.

MOO

Kamille don't forget the part, MR knew she had gang affiliates and he was terrified of her. <modsnip> Maybe that earlier day, May 2009, in court when he cried "I didn't do it", he was referring to the fact he never helped LE when he knew he should have because he was innocent pffft. <modsnip>

To be honest and really thinking about the sexual assault, I don't think it's really going to weigh heavily to the jurors whether the sexual assault happened or not. It would be icing on the cake but... The jurors will find <modsnip> acted together and the end result Tori ended up brutally murdered. Pardon the expression but I am lost for words as to what to refer the makings of these two anymore. I could come up with a lot worse, but I do not think that would be acceptable to post here. I hate to refer them as human or people, that's for sure. Sickening, repulsive, disturbing. JMHO

My heart goes out to Tori's family who are now having to relive this whole nightmare in the worst possible way. I pray each day they find the strength through family and friends, and knowing no one can now bring anymore harm to their precious little baby girl anymore. She is with our Heavenly Father, protected from the evilness in this world.:moo:

 

[roseofsharon]

Good post Kamille!!!

 

[Ardy]

If MR was completely innocent and thought TLM was babysitting (all the way to MF...ya right!), as soon as she pulled out the hammer and went nuts with it....he could have taken off and left her. The nearest OPP station is less than 5km away. But no, he stuck around to help her clean up and gave her a ride home, why would he do this if he was just an innocent bystander. I believe "good things are coming my way" was written in regards to the plan that the pair had set out to accomplish on April 8, 2009.

I certainly would NOT have done what MR did............but who knows what each person would do in a situation like that.

I do know that sometimes a person can get themselves involved in a situation, merely by not thinking ahead of possible consequences. This is especially true of young, inexperienced and foolish young men.

My wife and I live in a complex and have taken on looking after a friend who lives just across the parking lot. She is an attractive widow who suffers from serious Alzheimers disease. She has a very poor memory, gets confused easily, and is waiting for placement in a care setting. Her daughter lives in the US and has our contact number........so we keep an eye on her mom for her. She also has continual daily visitations from VON, public health nurse, Meals on Wheels, and other volunteer organizations.

One day, I get a call from the woman's niece. She is worried because the woman isn't answering her phone and asks me to check on her. My wife is at work, but I say okay.........and I go over and bang on the door.......no answer.

Then I decide to go home and fetch a key we have to her place, and start to head back to check her place out and make sure she is alright. Halfway there, I think......wait a minute. What if something is really wrong and I open the door and find her naked or something.......or worse. And what if one of her many visitors just happens to come into the home while I am standing there.

So, I turn around and go back home, and fortunately my son's girlfriend is there waiting for him to come home. I ask her to accompany me, and we go over and she walks through the home, while I stay at the door.

She wasn't home and nothing happened.............but that is how easy a person can find themselves in a situation that is difficult to explain.

I have the benefit of years of life and experience.

MR is young and foolish. I doubt he looks much past what he is going to do that day when he gets up each morning. I doubt he looks ahead and considers a range of possible consequences of his actions.

That is just the reality of the world for a lot of young men.

I don't find it beyond the realm of belief that MR could have gotten himself fooled into some scheme hatched by TLM, and panicked when she told him the truth, and then totally freaked out when TLM killed VS.

Maybe yes........maybe no..........the evidence should show.

I don't condone his actions, if that is what happened, but I can understand how stupid, irresponsible, and selfish young people can be.

 

[swedie]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2390767

Maybe nodding off because he didn't get any sleep the night before; being heckled by other inmates?:waitasec::moo:

 

[swedie]

Don't know why anyone would...from the pic of his car in the opp garage, the interior with the whitewash looked like crap, and this was from a distance. I cannot imagine how it looked up close.

\

JMHO the whole car looked like crap. I would walk or take public transportation before being seen in that crap mobile. :moo: I believe one of his ex girlfriends said she was embarrassed to be seen in it and offered to take her car when she was with him. Could we blame her? :blushing:

 

[swedie]

Not every "normal" guy is a rapist though. It goes both ways.
People who knew him as a kid and thought he "shows attributes of an abusive man" ...don't know what that means. He was a kid. What attributes?
I too want to hear the next chapters.
I don't recall anyone saying he didn't rape Tori, just that we haven't got the evidence to support it yet. I have an open mind. I truly hope that the evidence shows that she wasn't raped, not to prove innocence for him, but for the family. The killing is bad enough without adding rape to it.
Happy to sign Tori's Law too.
AGREE, AGREE, AGREE
I think they both knew the area. TLM also had connection to the area IIRC.
We all want justice!!!

Respectfully IMO normal guys don't rape people. Women, children or otherwise.

 

[Ardy]

The only evidence that MR raped VS..........is provided by TLM.......a hate filled, drug addled, lying, sadistic, vindictive, violent career criminal, who expressed no regrets about killing VS except for her young age and said she would do it again......according to her own godmother. So, if her next victim was a few years older......it would be okay with TLM to do it all again.

Then she told her godmother how she cooked the dog in the microwave.

That is the personal testimony upon which MR should be found guilty?

I think there needs to be more.....if not a lot ....than at least something more.

 

[swedie]

I wonder if MR had any injuries to his body that were noticed by anyone in the days after Tori's murder? (besides the cold sores) JMO

IIRC he had a girlfriend at the time of the murder. Wonder is she saw any injuries? Did she say whether they had sex shortly after? Wonder if they has sex with the lights on and if she noticed any injuries to his appendage? I hope Tori kicked, scratched, injured him there where it counts. :moo: She posted here on WS way back if IIRC. Anyone?