trial thread: 3/15/2012

[Hello_Kitty]

And the part about the "single moms"? That's horrifying. I note with interest that it wasn't about "single women" but single MOMS. So what was he thinking? The conversation, allegedly, was about taking the mom, but why a mom? Why not just a woman? I won't type what I think, but I find it telling that he was interested in "moms" and not just "women."

Salem

SBM

My theory on that, is he wanted to tie the mom up so she wouldn't struggle while he took the kid? JMO That's how I read what Matou posted, I dunno maybe I'm misreading it. Who knows what he meant.

 

[brighidin]

Thank you Matou for posting and transcribing the evidence.

 

[flipflop]

SBM

My theory on that, is he wanted to tie the mom up so she wouldn't struggle while he took the kid? JMO That's how I read what Matou posted, I dunno maybe I'm misreading it. Who knows what he meant.

He will deny saying it anyways, so we will never know!

 

[~n/t~]

I think she's telling the truth about the abduction and murder. Whether or not she's hiding the extent of her role in planning it, her motives, or what she got out of it, I don't know, and I don't really care. I suspect that TLM has spent most of her life making it up as she goes, and that "the whole truth" is a foreign concept to her. So even if she were entirely cooperative and desperate to reveal all, I'm not sure she'd be able to do it -- drug-induced haze aside.

I can't think of any genuinely complicated case where anything like the "whole truth" is available Offenders lie about motivations, degree of responsibility, details of their actions, role of victims, and on and on. I can't stomach any extra detail at this point. But I can't imagine TLM lying about that day itself -- too much corroborating evidence and the sheer weirdness of some of it. I really do think it's as close to the "whole truth" as we're gonna get -- especially with the additional evidence in place.

I think she'll do poorly in the cross though. Not that it will make a difference (I sincerely hope).

s

bbm...I totally agree with you. I just finished listening to the impact statement by Rusty Sneiderman's brother (Georgia Daycare shooting). He mentions not ever really knowing the whole truth even after the trial is over. The "why" lingers forever. Yes people can speculate but for cold blooded murderers to do this to another human being is something that those of us who are not of that mindset will ever understand.

I truly believe that is what Tori's family is faced with. The "why"? And we are too. Sadly, I don't think we will ever know.

 

[matou]

Not necessarily. He was a gym member, so it would be logical (IMO) to have extra pairs of this and that. In my car, I always carry boots, extra shoes, extra pants, etc and some blankets.

What size shoes did he wear and were the shoes he gave TLM actually his size? TIA

 

[matou]

SBM

My theory on that, is he wanted to tie the mom up so she wouldn't struggle while he took the kid? JMO That's how I read what Matou posted, I dunno maybe I'm misreading it. Who knows what he meant.

Well I think there was a reason he memorized the floor plans of the single mothers he knew. Why not the single women he knew? JMO

 

[Sailor Bug]

Transcription

Mike:

So your probably wondering why I wrote you a letter when I could just talk to you, well that's pretty much it. I can't seem to verbalize what I want to say, so here we are...first of all, I want you to know that I do care about you, alot, and that's difficult for me, I've struggled with emotions for a while, but let me expand on that statement a little bit, because it can be interpretted different ways. What I mean when I say that is that I basically taught myself not to feel certain things as I was growing up. Mainly to survive. I basically went through life being pissed of (?) all the time but on January 14 2009 I finally broke, I cried for the first time in 9 years. At the time I didn't really know what to take from it, not until a few months down the road did I realize that was my breakthrough point. that I would soon be experiencing a tidal wave of different emotions.

bbm

She cried for the first time in 9 years on Jan 14/09
Meaning she would have been close to lil Tori's age...the last time she cried.

I wonder if she was sexually abused at a young age??

 

[Sailor Bug]

What size shoes did he wear and were the shoes he gave TLM actually his size? TIA

Not sure on the size of MR's feet however I do remember from an article that the shoes he gave TLM were his size and they were to big for her.

jmo

 

[Hello_Kitty]

What size shoes did he wear and were the shoes he gave TLM actually his size? TIA

The Shaq shoes he gave her were size 9 - I assume he wears size 9 since they were his shoes

 

[Hello_Kitty]

bbm

She cried for the first time in 9 years on Jan 14/09
Meaning she would have been close to lil Tori's age...the last time she cried.

I wonder if she was sexually abused at a young age??

If I remember correctly she was age 6.

 

[Kittymama]

bbm

She cried for the first time in 9 years on Jan 14/09
Meaning she would have been close to lil Tori's age...the last time she cried.

I wonder if she was sexually abused at a young age??

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she was. If it hasn't been said outright, it's been hinted at and alluded to a lot. And that's awful, and tragic, and someone should have done something for her. However, it happens to other people and they don't murder little kids as a result.

I admit to having some sympathy for her. I have to keep reminding myself how vicious she is.

 

[antiquegirl]

The Shaq shoes he gave her were size 9 - I assume he wears size 9 since they were his shoes

The Shaq shoes LE found were TLM's - the ones that were discarded on the highway.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

McClintic's shoes are the next slide. She got them while in a youth facility in 2008. tied her laces a special way, to slide them on and off

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

Looking at a photo. The white and blue Shaq runners have a distinct curly tie so she could slip them on and off like loafers

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

McClintic also took investigators back to side road 6, where she'd discarded her runners after the crime.

MTR's shoes were three sizes too big for her and not the ones in the above picture.

AM980_Court

McClintic was wearing shoes three sizes too big, and a shirt from Rafferty's gym bag to keep warm.

I had been wondering how she managed to walk home from the variety store in shoes that were three sizes too big ... and why Carol never found this strange.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

The next slide is Starlight Variety, where Rafferty dropped her off April 8th. She walked home.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

The Shaq shoes LE found were TLM's - the ones that were discarded on the highway.

Ah my bad, oops.

 

[matou]

The Shaq shoes LE found were TLM's - the ones that were discarded on the highway.

Ah my bad, oops.

I don't see any blood on these shoes. JMO If she bludgeoned Tori to death, kicked her with these shoes and transported her body, wouldn't there be blood?

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503411.html

 

[Flowercb]

To me it doesn't matter which one held the hammer or did the kicking. They are both guilty of abduction and murder. MR is most likely guilty of sex assault but for that they will need something more than the corroborating evidence such as the surveillance videos and the bank withdrawal.


TLM did not mention that MR used a condom so I am praying that there is some of his DNA somewhere with Tori's body and in the garbage bag.
If Tori went pee somewhere I am praying that somehow there is MR's dna in that path of grass. But that is wishful thinking on my part.

If he wasn't planning on killing her what was he going to do with her?
My opinion is that the Crown is doing a great job of backing up TLM's testimony with the photos of the clothes, hair dye, photos of clothing, Home Depot video etc. I am surprised we haven't seen the bank machine withdrawal video yet but that along with bank records will corroborate TLM's testimony.

Exactly if he wasn't planning on killing her what was he going to do with her? That's why it's hard to believe that he did not plan on it. Did he not know why TLM was going into Home Depot? It was his car--I doubt anyone else but him was driving it. :moo::twocents:

 

[flipflop]

I don't see any blood on these shoes. JMO If she bludgeoned Tori to death, kicked her with these shoes and transported her body, wouldn't there be blood?

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503411.html

Good thought about the blood. From her testimony, I would picture some pretty badly blood stained shoes. IIRC They were in a ditch on the side of sideroad 6 for a few weeks. There was snow on the ground from the day before. With it being cold at night, the area still would have had frost each night. With it being spring, Im sure it rained on those shoes as well. With all of the precipitation, the majority of the blood would wash away, but I am surprised there are not even faint blood stains visible, if she was actually the one to do the actions as she said. TLM also messed up the tired tracks in the snow with these shoes on, so Im assuming alot of the blood washed off then.

 

[antiquegirl]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she was. If it hasn't been said outright, it's been hinted at and alluded to a lot. And that's awful, and tragic, and someone should have done something for her. However, it happens to other people and they don't murder little kids as a result.

I admit to having some sympathy for her. I have to keep reminding myself how vicious she is.

ITA.

Hearsay, but here it is:

"She (Terri) told me she was sexually assaulted when she was about 4 or 5,"

Terri-Lynne's mother, Carol *********, confirmed her daughter had been molested as a child. "She told me but did not really understand what had happened. I did not let this man (near her) again."

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/638603--teen-had-tough-life-growing-up

 

[matou]

Good thought about the blood. From her testimony, I would picture some pretty badly blood stained shoes. IIRC They were in a ditch on the side of sideroad 6 for a few weeks. There was snow on the ground from the day before. With it being cold at night, the area still would have had frost each night. With it being spring, Im sure it rained on those shoes as well. With all of the precipitation, the majority of the blood would wash away, but I am surprised there are not even faint blood stains visible, if she was actually the one to do the actions as she said. TLM also messed up the tired tracks in the snow with these shoes on, so Im assuming alot of the blood washed off then.

I thought about that too but these shoes look brand new with no mud or staining from being exposed to the elements, nothing. I find that weird. JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

Good thought about the blood. From her testimony, I would picture some pretty badly blood stained shoes. IIRC They were in a ditch on the side of sideroad 6 for a few weeks. There was snow on the ground from the day before. With it being cold at night, the area still would have had frost each night. With it being spring, Im sure it rained on those shoes as well. With all of the precipitation, the majority of the blood would wash away, but I am surprised there are not even faint blood stains visible, if she was actually the one to do the actions as she said. TLM also messed up the tired tracks in the snow with these shoes on, so Im assuming alot of the blood washed off then.

Not only that, but it was said that she got these shoes the year before. There is no blood, no dirt, no wear. They look brand new. I often suspect that some of the photos LE gives to the media show items identical to what they have stored in the evidence room and not the actual items seized. But that's JMO.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Good thought about the blood. From her testimony, I would picture some pretty badly blood stained shoes. IIRC They were in a ditch on the side of sideroad 6 for a few weeks. There was snow on the ground from the day before. With it being cold at night, the area still would have had frost each night. With it being spring, Im sure it rained on those shoes as well. With all of the precipitation, the majority of the blood would wash away, but I am surprised there are not even faint blood stains visible, if she was actually the one to do the actions as she said. TLM also messed up the tired tracks in the snow with these shoes on, so Im assuming alot of the blood washed off then.

The fact is also, they look pretty clean to me. And of course as of now we have no idea if they found MR's shoes.