trial thread: 3/23/2012

[ChaChaCha]

Just a thought: Is JG attending this trial?

[/I]

I believe so.... he was with TM the first few days of the trial - haven't seen any reports one way or another after that...

 

[ChaChaCha]

:goodpost: WG! Pretty sick eh?! Especially when he supposidly didn't murder Tori, he was just the horrified taxi driver. Wonder what Derstine really thinks? :what: He's getting paid no matter what the out is, am I right?

The bolding is mine ... quite the princely sum to hit his pocket huh? And out of that he still has to pay his staff, office expenses, LSUC Professional Liability Insurance, and because all of his time and his staff's time is tied up with this case, he isn't making any money off any other files. Loss Leader?:banghead:


From: www.lawyersweekly.ca/index.php?section=article&volume...

The simple fact is that unless they are doing so as a matter of honour, in an attempt to ameliorate the horrific effects of this denial of decent legal services to the poor, few competent lawyers will take legal aid cases. The rates are one-sixth to one-third of what ordinary lawyers get paid. A beginning lawyer — and experienced lawyers have largely fled the system — is paid $85 per hour.

If you need more hours than are authorized, you’ve got to beg LAO for them. And very often, the begging falls on deaf ears. Lawyers have to donate dozens or hundreds of free hours to do a case with integrity. That they do so is a credit to the Bar and a shame for Attorney General Chris Bentley and LAO chair John McCamus.

 

[swedie]

This clearly outlines the defence's theory, that MR did not know that Tori was even kidnapped until they were in Guelph or the Mt Forest area. So according to MR's lawyer, he didn't know Tori was kidnapped when Tori got in or was pushed in to the car.



http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html

So how does one explain away the fact that TLM retreived the hammer from MR's trunk without him asking "whatcha gonna do with the hammer?" Maybe TLM told MR she and Tori were going to build a tree fort? Not buy it sorry, no offence there Mr. Derstine. :moo:

And MR thought nothing of a child hiding behind his seat on the floor of his car with his pea coat used to cover her up? :shocked2: We know from the Crown's opening statement, the last last images of Tori was when she walked away from school with TLM, no other pictures or videos show her in the car. Maybe Derstine's excuse will be Tori was having nap in MR's backseat. Even thought she was with two strangers, terrified of MR she was able to nap. Just trying to guess what the defense might spin in MR's defense. :moo:

 

[swedie]

BBM

Maybe for the drugs. Maybe, like he said in the interview, because he felt bad for her and wanted to help. In the video of them at the movie theater, it looked more to me like she was the one trying to latch onto him. JMO

And he could hardly wait to latch onto her in the dark theatre. Oh what a narsty place to do "it". :moo: Hope they stayed off the stick floor. :floorlaugh::woohoo:

 

[Barsinister]

Just been reading older stuff on this case from 2009 - never have two names been so inticately entwined as CH and TLM

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/29/9608161-sun.html

 

[swedie]

The bolding is mine ... quite the princely sum to hit his pocket huh? And out of that he still has to pay his staff, office expenses, LSUC Professional Liability Insurance, and because all of his time and his staff's time is tied up with this case, he isn't making any money off any other files. Loss Leader?:banghead:


From: www.lawyersweekly.ca/index.php?section=article&volume...

The simple fact is that unless they are doing so as a matter of honour, in an attempt to ameliorate the horrific effects of this denial of decent legal services to the poor, few competent lawyers will take legal aid cases. The rates are one-sixth to one-third of what ordinary lawyers get paid. A beginning lawyer — and experienced lawyers have largely fled the system — is paid $85 per hour.

If you need more hours than are authorized, you’ve got to beg LAO for them. And very often, the begging falls on deaf ears. Lawyers have to donate dozens or hundreds of free hours to do a case with integrity. That they do so is a credit to the Bar and a shame for Attorney General Chris Bentley and LAO chair John McCamus.

Maybe the reason why he didn't bother to cross examine some witnesses?

 

[brighidin]

Just been reading older stuff on this case from 2009 - never have two names been so inticately entwined as CH and TLM

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/05/29/9608161-sun.html

Who is CH? I don't see a reference to anyone in that article with those initials. If you are referring to Karla Holmolka, she is referenced because, as the article suggests, there was talk of a possible deal. As we now know, TLM didn't get a deal. It isn't clear, then, how this article is relevant now, unless you are trying to say they are both evil. That is quite clear; moreso from information received today than from anything written in 2009.

 

[ChaChaCha]

Maybe the reason why he didn't bother to cross examine some witnesses?

No, not really. In cases like these, Legal Aid knows that a standard allocation won't apply. For example, someone who is in a custody dispute over their child may be granted a $2,000 Legal Aid Certificate - meaning that they can utilize up to that amountof their lawyer's time and disbursements, and the lawyer bills Legal Aid directly. A criminal charge, like simple possession of pot might get ya $1,000 for a lawyer. In a more complicated case like this one, the law firm usually estimates the amount of "man hours" needed to prep the file for trial ... its a ballpark amount, then the number of hours estimated for in court time (including work being done outside of court hours) and submits the estimate to Legal Aid for pre-approval. They can then do interim billing to Legal Aid at certan points in time. If, for some reason additional work is required (like TLM recanting her earlier statements) then a revised estimate can be submitted. So it doesn't matter so much about the billable hours - the idea is to be as efficient as possible.

Not too many Ontario lawyers accept legal aid files any more - too much work for not nearly enough pay. It is unfortunate in some respects because Legal Aid is intended to benefit those who need a lawyer and are unable to afford one ...but not for civil litigation -optional stuff doesnt qualify - the whole point of "if you cannot afford a lawyer one will be appointed for you".

Its a little bit more complicated than set out above, but you get the idea.

Hope this helps.:fence:

 

[swedie]

Terri-Lynne McClintic told jurors in a London, Ont., court Thursday that her former boyfriend "had a very powerful role" in her life at the time that Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted and killed.

Jurors heard Thursday about an occasion in which the couple once visited a pawn shop, when McClintic said Rafferty used her finger to test a ring size, saying she could be the "lucky girl" one day.

I suspect it was the first time anyone showed her they cared. Too bad he wasn't sincere and just used her.

McClintic choked her mother with her left hand as she punched with her right after the two got into a fight over McClintic's dismissal from work, Derstine said, adding McClintic's mother lost partial vision in her eye as a result.

McClintic said her mom poked her so she hit her back.

Terri-Lynne McClintic was twice charged with assaulting her mother, Carol (pictured).
The other charge involved McClintic punching her mother in the back of the head. According to McClintic, the two got into a mutual confrontation and her mother burned her with a cigarette.

Wonder if the cigarette burn was intentional? Probably, as nothing would surprise me in this pathetic house of horrors. They were both probably so strung out on drugs. CM was probably pizzed off because TLM lost her job meaning no more extra drug money. Nice mom introducing her daughter to so much disgust in her life. Maybe charges should have been laid against CM. Another child failed by the system IMHO. Sounds like her prison mate KS didn't have it much better. Abandoned by family at the age of three.

Picture of CM's eye injury. Near end of article.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/22/stafford-rafferty-trial-thurs.html

 

[Kittymama]

And he never returned to his mother's place after that interview either. I'm betting he was preparing to bolt.

MOO

He didn't? Where did he go? Or when was he arrested? Was it shortly after that interview?

 

[snoofer]

He didn't? Where did he go? Or when was he arrested? Was it shortly after that interview?

attention was brought to this when the detective said the car was not locatable for two days...I wonder if the crown is going to FILL IN exactly where he was in his car and what he was doing. Maybe crown has info on exactly what he was doing. IMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

On top of everything else that I've "heard" during this trial, hearing Tori referred to as a "gift" was :maddening:

I did have one thought though. Usually if I am going to go out of my way or spend a lot of money on a gift for someone I have a pretty good it is something that person wants.

If what Derstine said is true, that TLM brought Tori to MTR as a "gift", had he said or done something to indicate he would like that kind "gift"?

I'm not sure if Derstine's defence is going to work with the jury, hopefully the Crown has solid forensic evidence. I'm surprised though that the defence didn't say that MTR left TLM with Tori so he could go take a whiz.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

And truly I wouldn't have thought that TLM could be anymore of a psychotic, but placing a dog in the microwave? Regretting murdering a child only because she was a child and not an adult?

I wonder if people like her like being incarnated not just because they are institutionalized, but because it is a place where they can be around others like themselves, with a kill or be killed mentality.

I hope that her testimony about killing Tori will land her in solitary for the next twenty plus years.

 

[BorgQueen]

On top of everything else that I've "heard" during this trial, hearing Tori referred to as a "gift" was :maddening:

I did have one thought though. Usually if I am going to go out of my way or spend a lot of money on a gift for someone I have a pretty good it is something that person wants.

If what Derstine said is true, that TLM brought Tori to MTR as a "gift", had he said or done something to indicate he would like that kind "gift"?

I'm not sure if Derstine's defence is going to work with the jury, hopefully the Crown has solid forensic evidence. I'm surprised though that the defence didn't say that MTR left TLM with Tori so he could go take a whiz.

(BBM)
Perhaps he didn't have to indicate that he would like that kind of "gift". It has been established that TLM was sexually abused as a child. We don't know by how many men, as it isn't relevant to this trial. I suspect it was an ongoing thing in her life. It is possible that she thought that is what all men like/want. Perhaps she felt that her mother (CM) gave her (TLM) to these men that violated her as a "gift", and she wanted to give her man (or, the man she thought was hers) the same "gift".
It has been established that this woman has psychological problems. And her problems seem to be what Derstine was using as part of his defence of the accused.
:moo:

 

[daisy.faithfull]

attention was brought to this when the detective said the car was not locatable for two days...I wonder if the crown is going to FILL IN exactly where he was in his car and what he was doing. Maybe crown has info on exactly what he was doing. IMO

It's possible that they could have through cell phone pings. I don't know if they would be able to know for sure what he was doing in each particular area though.

I've seen in American cases that a cell phone does not have to be used to be tracked because it is the battery that gives the location. So if MTR wasn't taking his battery out of his they could have a lot of information about MTR's whereabouts during that time.

But maybe his phone had to be used to track him. They've already said that they couldn't determine which Timmy's or car wash they stopped at, maybe thats because he didn't use the phone at either location.

I wonder if LE and the cell service provider could tell when the battery was removed? Probably not, but if they could MTR would have to explain why he did that if he wasn't concerned about being tracked.

 

[Salem]

Please continue here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7715941#post7715941"]Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-25/2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thanks,

Salem