trial thread: 3/29/2012

[LilyMacBloom]

Ladies and Gents: If tomorrow is what they say it will be, you will have to excuse me.

I simply can not follow the words "tweet by tweet"

I find that I have to digest the cruel details filtered through the news outlets

Please accept my sincere thanks for the links, the tweets, the maps et al as I truly do appreciate all of your efforts and opinions, but, I can only absorb so much, on any one given day.

Thanks to the mods for having the dedication everyday.

I can not imagine how the family and friends of ANY party finds the strength.

God Bless Tori its been a long haul to justice.

 

[dar107]

Will the court announce what day the jury will be going to Mount Forest? I thought maybe they would keep this quiet so they don't have news helicopters flying overhead, do they rope the area off and keep spectators away?

And is MR allowed to attend, I would think his lawyer would be there for sure? Does anyone here know how they go about organizing this?

 

[flipflop]

Will the court announce what day the jury will be going to Mount Forest? I thought maybe they would keep this quiet so they don't have news helicopters flying overhead, do they rope the area off and keep spectators away?

And is MR allowed to attend, I would think his lawyer would be there for sure? Does anyone here know how they go about organizing this?

JMO, I believe this "field trip" location would be treated like the court room. The jury will be shown where things happened, where people walked, stood, where VS was buried under the rocks etc etc etc. Im thinking the only ones allowed up that laneway on the day of the visit will be the jury, the crown and the defense.

Will MR attend....hmmm would be interesting to see his reaction while at the site if he did, but I doubt he would go.

 

[~n/t~]

Will the court announce what day the jury will be going to Mount Forest? I thought maybe they would keep this quiet so they don't have news helicopters flying overhead, do they rope the area off and keep spectators away?

And is MR allowed to attend, I would think his lawyer would be there for sure? Does anyone here know how they go about organizing this?

Not sure if it's ever been done in a Canadian case so I can't really say how it works here. My understanding from following other cases, (UK and USA)the judge does announce when the jury will visit the crime scene. The Judge, the prosecution and defense team are present. The accused may want to go along and it is his right to be there.

As for media presence, I don't think the Judge can stop the media from reporting but I'm sure many roads will be blocked and they may have to report from a distance. Not sure about helicopters. HTH

 

[Confusedashell]

Will the court announce what day the jury will be going to Mount Forest? I thought maybe they would keep this quiet so they don't have news helicopters flying overhead, do they rope the area off and keep spectators away?

And is MR allowed to attend, I would think his lawyer would be there for sure? Does anyone here know how they go about organizing this?

I was thinking the same thing. Will they want to keep it quiet so they don't have a whole bunch of spectators. Right now they have a gate up at the entrance way so no one can get in. The Mennonite that lives there is pretty strict on who he will let on his property anymore. The gate is covered with purple flowers. If it wasn't for the purple flowers there is no way the public would know where it is, unless someone told them the fire number.

 

[dar107]

JMO, I believe this "field trip" location would be treated like the court room. The jury will be shown where things happened, where people walked, stood, where VS was buried under the rocks etc etc etc. Im thinking the only ones allowed up that laneway on the day of the visit will be the jury, the crown and the defense.

Will MR attend....hmmm would be interesting to see his reaction while at the site if he did.

Thanks, trying to find a case where the jury was taken to the crime scene in Canada, not having much luck. I found one where they were taken to a prison which was the crime scene.

Link: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Jury-to-have-unique-field-trip-137925948.html

The judge, crown, defence and jury attended, and they also allowed a handful of reporters to attend. I am thinking that MR will not be attending.

 

[dar107]

The jury in the Shafia murder trial were also taken to the canal where the murder happened. No accused attended this either.

Snip:

"The 12 jurors arrived in a small bus at about 9:30 a.m., followed by another bus with the judge, Crown attorneys, defence lawyers and court staff.

The jurors were allowed to move freely around the area to get a context for the evidence they've been seeing and hearing in court since last Thursday."

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2011/10/20111027-142103.html

 

[flipflop]

I was thinking the same thing. Will they want to keep it quiet so they don't have a whole bunch of spectators. Right now they have a gate up at the entrance way so no one can get in. The Mennonite that lives there is pretty strict on who he will let on his property anymore. The gate is covered with purple flowers. If it wasn't for the purple flowers there is no way the public would know where it is, unless someone told them the fire number.

earlier in the week when I drove down that road, there was no gate across the end of the lane....actually it was last weekend when I drove by there.

Also the general public has seen this area and was given the location on the news, in the newspapers, not hard to find with google earth.

 

[jolady]

for what is the coin?

You are not really allowed to put things around the tombstone. It is actually not a very nice cemetery. Just my opinion. I like the oldfashioned ones with interesting headstones. Most of it is flat headstones but there is a small section where you are allowed regular upright headstones. She has a beautiful one with her picture etched into a heart. It is lovely. They have strict rules about flowers. Flowers are only allowed on Mother's Day, Father's Day and Easter. There is a small ledge where the headstone rests on a piece of stone. (Sorry not explaining it well, didn't think it was appropriate to take a picture). Anyway, on this ledge people have left pennies, nickels, quarters. I don't really know why but there were quite a few, just on the ledge in the open. So I said a prayer and left one as well.
JUST FOUND THIS EXPLANATION:Like flowers, toys and stuffed animals, coins are a common sight at cemeteries. Placing coins on headstones is an old tradition with several different meanings, from remembering the dead to making wishes.
Charon

In Greek mythology, a deceased person is required to pay Charon, the boatman, to be ferried across the River Styx to Hades.
Remembrance

According to Memorials.com, people place coins on headstones "as a reminder that the individual is not forgotten."
Navy

People in the Navy put coins on graves to speed "the soul's trip to heaven," according to a letter on a Vietnam veterans website.
Wishes

According to the Official Donnelly website, the Donnelly family will grant wishes to people who leave coins on its family headstones.
Jewish Tradition

According to Jewish tradition, leaving a coin on a headstone signifies that a headstone has been visited.

 

[~n/t~]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=37334263&PIpi=57178793


:rose:

 

[nettie_82]

For those who want to see Tori's Headstone...here is a photo of it.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=37334263&PIpi=57178793

 

[nettie_82]

It will be interesting to see if Rodney addresses the media tomorrow at court. He has not said much within the last week, I think the only thing he did say to the media, they decided they wouldn't publish according to a tweet by the LFpress.

 

[~n/t~]

It will be interesting to see if Rodney addresses the media tomorrow at court. He has not said much within the last week, I think the only thing he did say to the media, they decided they wouldn't publish according to a tweet by the LFpress.

I think it will become increasingly more difficult for him to say what he really wants to say because of the publication ban.

 

[nettie_82]

I think it will become increasingly more difficult for him to say what he really wants to say because of the publication ban.

I have to agree. I was surprised he was speaking as much as he did in the first couple weeks.

 

[roseofsharon]

For those who want to see Tori's Headstone...here is a photo of it.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=37334263&PIpi=57178793

This is so beautiful! RIP precious Tori.

 

[Wondergirl]

Thank-you to those who posted the link to Tori's beautiful gravestone. I especially like the beautiful picture of her, and how they tranposed her signature onto her stone.

If I were able to travel to her gravestone, I would leave 2 coins, according to the tradition of Wish Fulfillment.

1 Coin would be to wish for the fulfillment of justice in Victoria's death.

1 Coin would be to wish for some sort of peace for Victoria's precious family.

Rest in peace, little one.

http://www.worldesigns.com/photo/pewter/newangel2.jpg

Wish Fulfillment

• Legend states that dropping a coin on a headstone or grave of someone will cause those buried there to either grant a wish or assist in fulfilling a wish.
  
  

Read more: Why Are There Coins on Headstones? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_5867353_there-coins-headstones_.html#ixzz1qYrxXWke

 

[Ardy]

You just can't look at that picture and not have emotions flooding in...........

Profound sadness, grief, anger, frustration............are all there.

You have to wonder how it is possible the two accused could feel none of those emotions.

Since TLM's testimony, demon possession seems much less of a wildly abstract concept than it used to.

It is the only way I can gather any measure of sense to the tragedy, and that isn't a completely satisfying answer either.

Maybe physical brain damage or impairment..........but both of them?

If it is possible to hurt and neglect animals to such a point they fight back in a mindless manner, I suppose it is possible for a human being to have such horrid background and life experiences, that they become devoid of feeling and emotion themselves and rely on the same animal survival response themselves...........but both of them?

When I read some of TLM's testimony, especially about what the words and phrases she attributed to MR during the alleged rape (which really seem extraordinarily bizarre in an already bizarre scenario)...................it sounds almost like she is recounting something that happened to her as a child.

This is especially true when she described MR sitting on the front seat of his car, naked from the waist down. That paints such a surreal picture, that it made me wonder if she wasn't describing a scene from her own past, rather than the reality of what really happened.

Truthfully I hope it was a fantasy in her head, because otherwise we have to believe that 2 people filled with such evil, managing to meet up with each in a country with 30 million people, and mutually plot this horrendous act.

The thought of 1 person like that is too much, but 2 people is almost too much to contemplate.

Hopefully, the forensic examinations will produce evidence that one side or the other cannot deny.

But, we will still be left wondering.........why.

 

[flipflop]

You just can't look at that picture and not have emotions flooding in...........

Profound sadness, grief, anger, frustration............are all there.

You have to wonder how it is possible the two accused could feel none of those emotions.

Since TLM's testimony, demon possession seems much less of a wildly abstract concept than it used to.

It is the only way I can gather any measure of sense to the tragedy, and that isn't a completely satisfying answer either.

Maybe physical brain damage or impairment..........but both of them?

If it is possible to hurt and neglect animals to such a point they fight back in a mindless manner, I suppose it is possible for a human being to have such horrid background and life experiences, that they become devoid of feeling and emotion themselves and rely on the same animal survival response themselves...........but both of them?

When I read some of TLM's testimony, especially about what the words and phrases she attributed to MR during the alleged rape (which really seem extraordinarily bizarre in an already bizarre scenario)...................it sounds almost like she is recounting something that happened to her as a child.

This is especially true when she described MR sitting on the front seat of his car, naked from the waist down. That paints such a surreal picture, that it made me wonder if she wasn't describing a scene from her own past, rather than the reality of what really happened.

Truthfully I hope it was a fantasy in her head, because otherwise we have to believe that 2 people filled with such evil, managing to meet up with each in a country with 30 million people, and mutually plot this horrendous act.

The thought of 1 person like that is too much, but 2 people is almost too much to contemplate.

Hopefully, the forensic examinations will produce evidence that one side or the other cannot deny.

But, we will still be left wondering.........why.

Very interesting thought Ardy, I had never thought about it that way. This is a very good possibility, especially when TLM stated in court that when she walked away, she couldn't go back to stop him as she just froze as flashbacks came back from her childhood...(not word for word, but TLM said something along this line)

 

[swedie]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=37334263&PIpi=57178793


:rose:

Thank you n/t for the picture. I have seen the video of RS at the cemetery with a reporter. So sad for any parent to have to visit their child that way. Sorry cannot locate that video right now.

I've wondered if the visit to that location in Mount Forest will be April 6th, two day before the day Tori was abducted three years ago. April 8th falls on a Sunday this year. I guess it would be classified as the third year anniversary, but to me anniversary sounds like something to celebrate and this is definitely not something to celebrate.:moo:

Eternal peace Victoria. You will never be forgotten. Justice is slow but looking hopeful little one.

 

[antiquegirl]

Very interesting thought Ardy, I had never thought about it that way. This is a very good possibility, especially when TLM stated in court that when she walked away, she couldn't go back to stop him as she just froze as flashbacks came back from her childhood...(not word for word, but TLM said something along this line)

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

McClintic says she started having "flashbacks" about her abuse and "needed to do something about what was going on" #ToriStafford #Rafferty

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

She says the "flashbacks" brought up "a whole lot of rage and anger in me"

I wondered the same thing after hearing TLM's version of those events and posted about it on March 21.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7706835&postcount=465"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - trial thread: 3/21/2012[/ame]


I have been hoping, not for the sake of the accused, but for Tori, that the scenario TLM described happened only in her drug-induced memory flashbacks of her own childhood abuse. If this is true, at least Tori was spared that much of the horror of that night.

JMO