trial thread; 3/6/2012

[ChaChaCha]

I wonder if TLM started walking with Tori, asked if she had a dog and what it looked like? Maybe said she had found a dog looking like that and would Tori ck. to see if it's hers? So easy to trick a little 8 yr. old.....grrrrrrrrrrrrr

The Crown is setting the stage ...chapter by chapter so that the jurors who are presumably not aware of the sequence of events have continuity of the events of the day ... No doubt in my mind that the Rafferty defence team will not deny his presence at the time of the abduction but rely on disparaging TLM testimony regarding his intent and participation in order to lessen his culpability... not that that will help him ... I think there will be a guilty verdict coming down the pipe since all the Crown has to do is prove that he was with TLM when TS was abducted and during the events that followed ... hence the Crown's caution that the jury does not need to attribute liabiliity between the pair, but only that they acted together.

While it may be easy to trick some kids, I do not think that Tori was naive or gullible. These days children are taught stranger danger from a very early age. HOW could TLM have convinced Tori to go with her so quickly unless Tori recognized her and responded to an urgent message to come quick so that TLM could take her to ???? I doubt the child truly realized what was happening for some time, and by the time she was uncomfortable enough to resist it was too late.

 

[Sparklin]

@RaffertyLFP
Rafferty appears to be more tense and nervous today not as cool and calm as yesterday

I hope he breaks ~ I hope listening and seeing and reliving all of this after three years of (hopefully) being 'clean' will make him break down and just admit what he has done!

 

[Sparklin]

So is he now going to say that if she was looking at her kids, then she couldn't have gotten a very good look at TLM and Tori walking towards her? Is he going to argue that the video shows how long she would have seen TLM, and suggest that there wasn't enough time for her to get a look good enough to help police come up with a sketch of TLM? Is he going to suggest that LE fed Ms. Perry the specs on TLM in order to match it up with what they wanted to charge her with!?!?:what:

I was thinking he was suggesting that Tara should have been there watching her daughter...I'm not loving this guy even though I know he's doing his job...I don't like his job either

 

[Sparklin]

I wish that mother would have gone right up to TLM and asked her who she was since she has never seen her before

I wish too, but I'll bet, not as much as she wishes it

 

[Sparklin]

Here`s the photo of the car at the Esso station at 3:20 pm. The time stamp was wrong.

http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/03/02/the-tori-stafford-saga

Thanks ~ I use to have a copy of that - analyzed over and over by everyone and their sister...people had circled Tori in the back seat...a dog in the middle of the seats etc!

I still have to wonder how they got Tori in the car at all and how long their 'story' lasted. They were taking her to see some puppies and would drop her home making for a longer drive? They would drop her straight home? Ugh...my heart hurts!

 

[Sparklin]

Matou and all that have posted today ~ big thanks!!

 

[antiquegirl]

Thank you all for the comments.

Couple of things on my mind. The car was spray painted black and the dashboard whitewashed before all this happened. You can see that in the Esso picture. Guess all it means is the car was very distinctive.

I can't wrap my head around why... when you are kidnapping a child you would take their hand before you cross the street, push them into the back of a car, and then drive around with the driver's window down.

In some ways I wish MR had just plead guilty to save the families from all of this, but at the same time I'm glad all of our questions will be answered.

Paris, that video still of the car with the window down was from 3:20 p.m. - before Tori was allegedly in it. Also, there is no video evidence that Tori was "pushed" into the car, or even that she got into it. I think it's safe to assume that she did, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

Yes, the car was painted like that inside and out before the abduction, as can be seen in this pic, not after to disguise it. Not sure how the Crown came to that conclusion when this pic shows the paint job was the same as after his arrest.
JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I think it was MTR in driving too. Not just because it really does look like a man/him in the pic.

To me it makes sense that they would want to be prepared for a fast get away at the school. MTR would have been ready at the wheel to take off as soon as TLMc got Tori into car. They could have switched I suppose, but I don't see that.

 

[flipflop]

Paris, that video still of the car with the window down was from 3:20 p.m. - before Tori was allegedly in it. Also, there is no video evidence that Tori was "pushed" into the car, or even that she got into it. I think it's safe to assume that she did, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet.

Yes, the car was painted like that inside and out before the abduction, as can be seen in this pic, not after to disguise it. Not sure how the Crown came to that conclusion when this pic shows the paint job was the same as after his arrest.
JMO

I cannot wrap my head around this....WHY would he do this???? This was a newer car, (I cannot remember what year this car was) why would anyone whitewash his dashboard and spray paint the outside of a newer car??????

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I cannot wrap my head around this....WHY would he do this???? This was a newer car, (I cannot remember what year this car was) why would anyone whitewash his dashboard and spray paint the outside of a newer car??????

According to his friends he was constantly mucking around with his cars, his friends said that he would do something to his car and it always ended it up being really ugly.

But who can know what goes on in someone's head that's alledgedly involved in the brutal murder of an eight year old defenseless little girl.

 

[nonfictionrocks]

I was surprised in cross with the police officer he only asked one question, if he was an expert. Methinks there is probably one waiting in the wings.

 

[antiquegirl]

I have posted a relatively complete chronology of Tweets from today's trial proceedings all in one post for easy reference in the Trial Media & Tweet thread here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7668113&postcount=52"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - trial media and tweet thread (5 March 2012): **no discussion**[/ame]


HTH

 

[margaret_diane]

The sketch was done long before anyone heard of TLM. In the beginning we all thought the sketch looked like Tori's mother.

Good point - had forgotten this. Thanks.

 

[antiquegirl]

I cannot wrap my head around this....WHY would he do this???? This was a newer car, (I cannot remember what year this car was) why would anyone whitewash his dashboard and spray paint the outside of a newer car??????

"New" is relative. The car was a 2003 Honda Civic, which would have been 6 years old at the time of the abduction.

http://www.ocpsaux.org/PRESS RELEASEFrame1Source1.htm

Hello Kitty is correct in that Wendell wrote that he was always mucking about with his car, but was totally incompetent at it. These quotes by her are from Thread #16.

Post #538

2. i'm not sure when the black primer happened, the last time i saw it which was early may, it was a mess and we even suggested to him to paint it FLAT BLACK to try to cover up how horrible it looked

3. he's painted his car numours times, and he tries to do stuff to it to sup it up... and honestly its hillarious, take the hook scoop for example, its just a stick on... and he cut a hole in the hood so its 'functional' ofcourse there is nothing leading to it, its just a hole in the hood with a stick on crappy tire hood scoop lol oooooh mike what were you thinking? we would try to give him car advice all the time, even offer to take him to the wreckers in london when we go (we're car ppl)

Post #188

the only paint on the inside of the car he ever did was he painted the dash white.

HTH

 

[Kamille]

"New" is relative. The car was a 2003 Honda Civic, which would have been 6 years old at the time of the abduction.

http://www.ocpsaux.org/PRESS RELEASEFrame1Source1.htm

Hello Kitty is correct in that Wendell wrote that he was always mucking about with his car, but was totally incompetent at it. These quotes by her are from Thread #16.

Post #538



Post #188



HTH

So this post suggests that perhaps he repainted it after the abduction and murder? To another colour?

 

[paris_paris]

Paris, that video still of the car with the window down was from 3:20 p.m. - before Tori was allegedly in it. Also, there is no video evidence that Tori was "pushed" into the car, or even that she got into it. I think it's safe to assume that she did, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet./QUOTE]

I keep forgetting the Esso was beforehand.

I'll go digging, but I'm sure I read in TLM's statement, or court docs that she said she told Tori she had a puppy in the back seat, and when she opened the door she shoved her in.

 

[maxfactor]

Paris, that video still of the car with the window down was from 3:20 p.m. - before Tori was allegedly in it. Also, there is no video evidence that Tori was "pushed" into the car, or even that she got into it. I think it's safe to assume that she did, but we haven't seen any evidence of it yet./QUOTE]

I keep forgetting the Esso was beforehand.

I'll go digging, but I'm sure I read in TLM's statement, or court docs that she said she told Tori she had a puppy in the back seat, and when she opened the door she shoved her in.

I saw that too, I think it was even quoted on the last thread we had. I think only one MSM source had printed that fact, not sure.

 

[antiquegirl]

So this post suggests that perhaps he repainted it after the abduction and murder? To another colour?

It's hard to say. Wendell wrote that she last saw the car in early May (after the abduction), but she didn't say when was the last time before that that she saw him. If it was more than a month, he could have repainted it before the abduction.

And if you look at the two pics from the police website, they don't look all that different to me, but the quality of the pics is bad and the angles different, so it's difficult to tell.

About the only thing we can be sure of is that the dash was painted white both before and after the abduction.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

I saw that too, I think it was even quoted on the last thread we had. I think only one MSM source had printed that fact, not sure.

I found it in several sources. From today's Tweets:

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Brocanier spoke to manager of gas station who said the camera time stamp was off about an hour -actual time 3:20 p.m.

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

The vid was time stamped at 4:24 but gas station manager says time really was 3:24 on Apr 8. This was before #ToriStafford abducted

The Toronto Star, March 5, 2012:

At 3.20 p.m., the Civic was caught on a camera at a nearby Esso station.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...fic-details-of-slaying-revealed-as-case-opens

HTH

 

[matou]

I'll go digging, but I'm sure I read in TLM's statement, or court docs that she said she told Tori she had a puppy in the back seat, and when she opened the door she shoved her in.
Reply With Quote

Hi Paris! That article went poof right away. I read it and part of it was posted on here at the time of the arrests. It was the one where TLM said she walked a distance from the car.

ETA: Actually, I think that statement was from Rosie Dimanno's article from Dec 2010 when the TLM's sentencing was revealed along with some of the info from her statement of facts. That went poof too.