trial thread: 4/02/2012

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  • #101
cbcsteve1

Most members of jury appear to have finished their tour as media watch from afar #sl #Rafferty twitter.com/cbcsteve/stat....
 
  • #102
robynhood --->LindaNguyenPN read your mind


LindaNguyenPN

We have seen many photos of this crime scene but actually seeing it in person really shows how secluded it is #ToriStafford #Rafferty

That's one thing I hoped the jury would notice too. This area was well known to the accused child killer. imo
 
  • #103
I ask also because it seems that whenever RS is talking to the media its as if he wants to badly to blurt something out.

I think RS and TM know a lot more than what the public know to this point. I understand what you are saying though, I think he really has to hold himself back, but some of that could just be the feelings he has against the accused at this point. In his position it would be impossible to believe the accused is innocent until proven guilty. I would think it is in the back of his mind the entire time he speaks with media that he doesn't want to say ANYTHING to cause a mistrial.
 
  • #104
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
That's all for the day. Regular courtroom testimony resumes tomorrow at 10.
 
  • #105
In one of AM980's photos it looks like there is a gate at the beginning of the laneway. Was this always here?
 
  • #106
AM980.ca ‏

That's all for the day. Regular courtroom testimony resumes tomorrow at 10.
 
  • #107
Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN
OPP officers lock up the gate at the start of the lane way that was installed after #ToriStafford was found #Rafferty

http://twitpic.com/94rhtj
 
  • #108
In one of AM980's photos it looks like there is a gate at the beginning of the laneway. Was this always here?

I do recall the gate was added by the owner after the murder of lil Tori

I don't have a link so JMO
 
  • #109
Linda Nguyen ‏ @LindaNguyenPN
OPP officers lock up the gate at the start of the lane way that was installed after #ToriStafford was found #Rafferty

It was indeed put in after.
 
  • #110
@LindaNguyenPN

OPP officers lock up the gate at the start of the lane way that was installed after #ToriStafford was found #Raffe http://twitpic.com/94rhtj
 
  • #111
  • #112
This is the exact same question my mind has been wrestling with ever since I heard the defences theory. I think there would have been some sort of evidence for the charge other than TLM's word, but then another part of me says why would the defence put out a theory like that if there was evidence of it. I guess we have to be a little more patient before we get the answer to this, hopefully within the next week we will know what forensic evidence they have against the accused.

I don't know why it's expected that there has to be forensic DNA to prove the sexual assaults when there is direct witness evidence and a lot of circumstantial evidence to prove it. There is direct evidence presented already that the motive for this crime was sexual. There is no evidence, direct or otherwise to suggest any other motive.

I guess this is what they call the "CSI effect". Victoria's body was left out in the elements for almost 31/2 months. The chances of any DNA evidence of anything other than what may have been in her system such as drugs is slim to none IMO.

But the circumstantial evidence of an assault is there, with more to come. So is the direct witness evidence. The visit today is going to show the jury that TLM must have been walking around the area for some time and taking in her surroundings to give such a detailed description. When that might have been, however, will be up to them to determine with the evidence presented.

Put all the evidence puzzle pieces together and determine logically what makes the most sense. That's what the jury will be required to do. Because somehow, Victoria Elizabeth Stafford ended up deceased, without clothing from the waist down, under that rock pile. We did have sexual assault and murder trials long before the science of DNA was invented. And people were convicted based on other forms of evidence.

To suggest that only DNA evidence can prove a crime is a dangerous slope that our criminal justice system may be slipping down IMO. Now if Victoria's body was somehow preserved well enough that forensics can absolutely rule in a sexual assault, or rule one out, then that is a different story. And that is why the science is an important breakthrough in the case of an innocent person being convicted.

But somehow I'm not expecting any conclusive DNA or forensic evidence that can either rule in or rule out a sexual assault. I can't see Derstine going ahead with this trial if it can absolutely be ruled in and I can't see the Crown proceeding if it can absolutely be ruled out. So this case, IMO, is going to have to be resolved the old fashioned way.

MOO
 
  • #113
  • #114
I have a question. Have they told TM and RS what happened to TS and what evidence they have on the sexual assault? Or do they keep that quiet until the end?

Why would they charge him with it if they had no evidence?

TM and RS were present at TLM's hearing in April 2010 and would have heard her statement - some of which has now been recanted. So, they would be aware of her version of events at that time. They would also know about the sexual assault charge that was later laid on MTR. LE may even have told them early on that Tori was, or might have been, assaulted.

But, as far as the direct evidence we've been hearing and seeing in court, this would be the first time TM and RS would have seen and heard that. Only the defendant, his legal team, the Crown, and the judge would be aware of what that evidence is until it comes out at the trial. Rodney has more or less said the same in the pressers. I had only time to find one, but if you listen carefully to this, it seem obvious that he is hearing/seeing a lot of things for the first time.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/brightcovevideo/194978

JMO
 
  • #115
  • #116
I have a question. Have they told TM and RS what happened to TS and what evidence they have on the sexual assault? Or do they keep that quiet until the end?

Why would they charge him with it if they had no evidence?

The Crown does have evidence of sexual assault by MR against Tori. TLM's testimony. Her testimony is considered evidence. If you mean DNA, semen, scientific type evidence, that we do not know at this time. HTH
 
  • #117
The Crown does have evidence of sexual assault by MR against Tori. TLM's testimony. Her testimony is considered evidence. If you mean DNA, semen, scientific type evidence, that we do not know at this time. HTH

But how can that evidence be taken when she cant make up her mind on what happened? Lets say he didnt do it and they are taking her word, how is that justice?
 
  • #118
I know he was expected to attend, but why wasn't his arrival and/or departure mentioned by any of the media? They should have witnessed one or the other.

According to this American article from 15 years ago, the defendant was "entitled" to attend; it doesn't say that it's the law. So, I'm still not sure and I guess we'll have to wait until more info comes out when the full articles are published.


http://articles.latimes.com/1997/aug/30/local/me-27332

JMO

(Sorry to quote myself)

Okay, it has now been confirmed that MTR was at the site. I was just curious if he was and why it hadn't been reported earlier.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

Michael Rafferty was with the jury. RT @Sadiylynn: @AM980_Court Was MR there at the scene too??

Linda Nguyen‏@LindaNguyenPN

Yes Michael #Rafferty was in a van parked at the site. So were his lawyers, Crown and Justice Heeney #ToriStafford
Mike Drolet‏@MDroletGlobalTV

Cops hid #Rafferty at crime scene but i have it confirmed he was there looking with jurors.
 
  • #119
I can't see Derstine going ahead with this trial if it can absolutely be ruled in and I can't see the Crown proceeding if it can absolutely be ruled out.
<rsbm>

For some reason unknown to us, MTR and his first lawyer, Hal Mattson had a parting of the ways. Speculation here, but possibly MTR insisted on pleading Not Guilty and HM saw it as a no win?

Regardless of the evidence against them, anyone facing the possibility of life in prison is probably well advised to plead NG to hope for an acquittal, a lesser finding, a lesser sentence.

JMO
 
  • #120
Mike Drolet &#8207; @MDroletGlobalTV Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Cops hid #Rafferty at crime scene but i have it confirmed he was there looking with jurors.

Why did they hide him were they afraid someone would get even with him????
 
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