trial thread: 4/02/2012

[flipflop]

You're such a sensible sillybilly.:clap: Chapter 8 is about MR's connection to the Mount Forest area so I think we'll find he was very familiar with the area.

I was just looking at the chapters. I wonder why they would not include his connection in with the current chapter of the MF death scene...instead it is separated with the following chapters.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

...they must have some reason, with info inbetween, as to why they have done this.

 

[maxfactor]

They were also asked to take a look at the scene from various angles, paralleling some of the places McClintic testified she viewed the crime.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/02/19583446.html

I wonder if they were asked to get down low at certain points, I remember reading that certain things were not visible from the car but were if she was walking.

 

[flipflop]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/04/02/19583446.html

I wonder if they were asked to get down low at certain points, I remember reading that certain things were not visible from the car but were if she was walking.

snipped
They were also asked to take a look at the scene from various angles, paralleling some of the places McClintic testified she viewed the crime.



JMO I believe this has to do with where the car was parked. According to TLM's map, the car was parked beside the rock pile which is also beside a thick area of trees, therefore the silos are not visible from this area. If you walked past these trees and towards the fence, this is where the silos are visible. Afterall the crown is trying to prove some credibility in TLM's testimony and I believe this field trip did help.

 

[robynhood]

..Imo I totally agree with flipflop...as It is my opinion that this was very methodically planned out for a reason on the crown's part ...I do believe the puzzles pieces shall fit together and I am praying that this tells the WHOLe story and JUSTICE is found ...I hate to think of ANY other scenerio ....Please DEAr god may this arocity be OVER...as I have a hard time thinking of ANY young child would be treated in this manner !..RIP Sweet Tori as I feel you deserve justice !

 

[Sillybilly]

You're such a sensible sillybilly.:clap: Chapter 8 is about MR's connection to the Mount Forest area so I think we'll find he was very familiar with the area.

Not everybody thinks so max (but i send big cheques to those who do )

 

[Sillybilly]

If there had been a residence, they could have just turned around and left. Proximity to other people didn't seem to be a concern during their several stops in Guelph. That car got very close to other drivers and pedestrians in a few places before they reached the Mount Forest location. MTR even reportedly spent 10 minutes chatting with BA while Tori and TLM were sitting in the car on a public road, presumably with neighbours around and passing traffic.

JMO

<bbm>

In which case, why would he have been looking for a remote location?

In all the other stops you mention, he/she/they weren't in the process of assaulting and killing a child.

MOO

 

[flipflop]

Not everybody thinks so max (but i send big cheques to those who do )

With the title of the chapter, Im not sure why someone would think that he didn't have a connection. JMO

 

[~n/t~]

Mike Drolet &#8207; @MDroletGlobalTV Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Cops hid #Rafferty at crime scene but i have it confirmed he was there looking with jurors.

Why did they hide him were they afraid someone would get even with him????

Maybe he cried. :moo:

 

[roseofsharon]

If there had been a residence, they could have just turned around and left. Proximity to other people didn't seem to be a concern during their several stops in Guelph. That car got very close to other drivers and pedestrians in a few places before they reached the Mount Forest location. MTR even reportedly spent 10 minutes chatting with BA while Tori and TLM were sitting in the car on a public road, presumably with neighbours around and passing traffic.

JMO

The way these two flitted around with their devil-may-care attitudes, IMO TS may have been drugged and sleeping in the trunk. There would have been plenty of opportunity during their drive from Woodstock to Guleph, to stop the car and put TS in the trunk. This may be the reason they didn't worry about it, but stayed far enough away in the HD parking lot, just in case she woke up and knocked on the trunk. No link, just IMO.

 

[flipflop]

<bbm>

In which case, why would he have been looking for a remote location?

In all the other stops you mention, he/she/they weren't in the process of assaulting and killing a child.

MOO

They would be looking for a remote location to rape and murder a child, a secluded area has a less chance of someone hearing them.

Yes they were not in the process of assaulting/murdering a child in public areas, but they had an abducted child in the car in these public areas, therefore, it would have been no big deal if the lane ended up having a house, they would have just left and found another spot.

 

[roseofsharon]

While on their way up that lane, maybe they weren't worried because if stopped by anyone asking where they thought they were going, MTR could have explained that away saying he was a landscaper and was just picking up a couple of rocks for a job he was working on.

If TS was awake and in the back seat, at that point, the dear little soul probably would not have said a word, as even she did not know her fate at that point in time. Just a scenario, no link and IMO.

 

[swedie]

None of what the jury saw is evidence, Judge Heeney told the jurors before their visit. Instead, he said, it should be seen as a guide.

When the trial resumes Tuesday, the prosecution is expected to call pathologist Dr. Michael Pollanen as its next witness.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ere-tori-staffords-body-found/article2389019/

A basic explanation of the difference between an anthropologist and a pathologist. Could mean there was more to Tori's remains than skeletal. Hopefully enough to find definitive evidence of sexual assault. Then we can hopefully put that speculation to rest. MOO

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080826174811AAgiVNJ

Michael Pollanen, Adjunct Professor
http://www.law.utoronto.ca/faculty_...Type=Adjunct&itemPath=1/3/3/0/0&contentId=353

 

[Juris_Prudence]

I noticed in link above, in the pic of LE closing the gate that all of the purple flowers that were on the gate were removed....they were there yesterday!

Maybe the lawyer on either side (likely the defense) asked LE to remove them? Probably had concerns that they would make the scene too emotional and personal to the jurors. JMO.

 

[fats]

If there had been a residence, they could have just turned around and left. Proximity to other people didn't seem to be a concern during their several stops in Guelph. That car got very close to other drivers and pedestrians in a few places before they reached the Mount Forest location. MTR even reportedly spent 10 minutes chatting with BA while Tori and TLM were sitting in the car on a public road, presumably with neighbours around and passing traffic.

JMO

Wouldn't he risk getting his little car stuck on a remote little road partially covered with snow if he didn't know what to expect at that location.

 

[Juris_Prudence]

Someone posted a radio call in interview with the woman who lives in that house on one of the earlier threads and she seems just as deeply anguished about what happened there now as I'm sure she did three years ago. I have a lot of sympathy for that family. It must be very difficult to have to go on living there.

Such a beautiful home, forever tainted by the memory of what happened across the road.

MOO

Is this the interview you're talking about?
http://www.newstalk1010.com/shows/jerryagar/blogentry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10362807

If so, when I listened to it, I thought the caller is someone who lived ACROSS the road from the menonite family who own's the property where Tori was murdered? I don't think she owns or lives in the house that TLM described as being at an angle to the road as a landmark. :twocents:

 

[antiquegirl]

<bbm>

In which case, why would he have been looking for a remote location?

Sorry, Billy, I'm not sure I understand this.

It hasn't been proven yet that he was. There has been speculation here that this detour was for one or more people in the car to relieve themselves. Another was that TLM wanted to have a talk with Tori. (Not my theories, but somebody's.) We have yet to hear any other evidence aside from TLM's testimony that proves a sexual assault and murder were the reason he drove up that lane. Maybe we never will. But a reasonable doubt can be raised at this point, IMO.

In all the other stops you mention, he/she/they weren't in the process of assaulting and killing a child.

Right. But they weren't "in the process" of assaulting and killing a child while they turned and drove up this lane, either. You had asked why he'd risk this lane if there were the possibility of a house at the end of it. And my answer was that as they were driving up the lane, had they encountered a house, they could have just turned around. It was still light outside, any house nearby would have been visible at some point before the car stopped.

Purportedly, Tori was still hidden in the backseat under a coat, if TLM is to be believed. Just the same as she was in the parking lot of the Home Depot, at Timmy's, and in front of BA's house. They didn't seem to consider this a risk. Even if she had been sitting up by this time, once they saw a house, they still could have turned around and gone back. Same risk as before.

I don't pretend to know what happened or why. I'm not even saying he didn't previously know about the lane. In fact, it sounds more and more feasible all the time. I'm just suggesting an alternate scenario that may, or may not, be brought up as a defence. Hell, they may even claim that he was looking for a shortcut and didn't realize the lane led nowhere.

JMO

 

[antiquegirl]

Wouldn't he risk getting his little car stuck on a remote little road partially covered with snow if he didn't know what to expect at that location.

Who knows what he was thinking. IIRC, he had snow tires on the car. They took a lot of risks already that afternoon (not the least of which was being stopped by a cop during that two-hour trip for any traffic violation.) Why not another one? Unless he didn't consider it a risk at all, as "TLM was just babysitting Tori and he had no idea what was going to happen" (as per some people's possible theory.)

JMO

 

[dilbert]

To me it would be obvious from the road that there was no house up that laneway. There was only one house that could be seen from the road, and probably only one mailbox. You don't have to live in the country or even in the area to know that if there's a laneway, but no mailbox, there likely isn't a house at the end of it.

MOO

 

[antiquegirl]

The way these two flitted around with their devil-may-care attitudes, IMO TS may have been drugged and sleeping in the trunk. There would have been plenty of opportunity during their drive from Woodstock to Guleph, to stop the car and put TS in the trunk. This may be the reason they didn't worry about it, but stayed far enough away in the HD parking lot, just in case she woke up and knocked on the trunk. No link, just IMO.

That's another possibility. I have always hoped that we would find out that Tori had been drugged so she didn't suffer as much. But then why wouldn't TLM admit to it? I'm very dismayed that we've heard nothing about this.

JMO

 

[OhSoCurious]

wow maybe some consider O/T but..some things are possible if there is any doubt..

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...lty-liard-acquitted-in-aleksandra-murder?bn=1

O/T maybe but both females were macabre freaks in that case and this case and one of the parties involved in each case claimed to be NOT GUILTY from the beginning.