Trial Thread 4/11/2012

[snoofer]

IMO those fancy threads you see MR in everyday are courteous of you, I and all the other fine tax payers here in Ontario. HTH. Goodwill, SallyAnne, Value Village is getting pretty good donations me thinks. Sure hope they are not rental suits...that's gross. :moo:

loaners:bath: yuk!!!!

 

[ChaChaCha]

Is anybody else here frustrated that the DNA evidence relating to the blood stains in the car and the gym bag was not summarized in plainer terms today (or is it just that the tweets were out of order at times and hard to follow?)

I don't want to speculate/hypothecate/ruminate/debate or wonder what the results indicate - I would like very much for the expert to spell it out in plain words.

Betcha the jury is thinking the same thing.

 

[matou]

@LindaNguyenPN

• Court also heard today from Alexis Lane, who dated #Rafferty in Feb-Apr2009. She testified she first met him in Gr6 in Mt Forest area

 

[Sailor Bug]

Didn't he also have a profile on a christian site? I'd have to see if I can find it.

OMG a Christian site...he sure did get around:what:

Now I have that tune in my head
...Round round get around...I get around:what:

JMO

 

[matou]

@LindaNguyenPN

• The trial has adjourned until Thurs at 10 a.m. when forensic biologist Jennifer McLean will resume testimony on DNA evidence

I'm waiting for an article to summarize what the evidence showed today. JMO

 

[swedie]

Off topic a bit but relevant to your post Swedie:


It's kinda strange to me that women who sleep with alot of men are branded sl*ts and wh*res, but men who sleep with alot of women are manly and macho. I think the terms I outlined should be used for men as well

IMPHO men who sleep with multiply partners at the same time are disgusting and sexual deviants and worse. I cannot put it here on WS because I'll get my butt kicked by mods. They have no values or morals. MR could have been having sexual identity difficulties and actually looked down upon woman. Decent males do not do this to women. When you find a male who cheats on his partner/wife, it's typically because they have grown apart or fall out of love or that particular male is going through an identity issue. Some people say men also go through the change in life. MOO

 

[Sailor Bug]

Thanks matou...we need an article and we can always count on you XO

 

[swedie]

loaners:bath: yuk!!!!

Makes me wonder if they got any two for one specials on those threads. :waitasec: :floorlaugh:

 

[Sailor Bug]

IMPHO men who sleep with multiply partners at the same time are disgusting and sexual deviants and worse. I cannot put it here on WS because I'll get my butt kicked by mods. They have no values or morals. MR could have been having sexual identity difficulties and actually looked down upon woman. Decent males do not do this to women. When you find a male who cheats on his partner/wife, it's typically because they have grown apart or fall out of love or that particular male is going through an identity issue. Some people say men also go through the change in life. MOO

BBM Gosh thats so true swedie

He did have deep identity problems heck look at his alleged job list.

Don't think he really ever had a true identity

Rafferty and TLM were the perfect storm together...:jail::jail:

jmo

 

[swedie]

Is anybody else here frustrated that the DNA evidence relating to the blood stains in the car and the gym bag was not summarized in plainer terms today (or is it just that the tweets were out of order at times and hard to follow?)

I don't want to speculate/hypothecate/ruminate/debate or wonder what the results indicate - I would like very much for the expert to spell it out in plain words.

Betcha the jury is thinking the same thing.

Hopefully the six pm news will clarify for us, I pray the jurors, if they are at all confused ask for clarification when they deliberate. Hopefully tomorrow the forensic expert will clean up this mess. :moo:

 

[Salem]

@LindaNguyenPN

• The trial has adjourned until Thurs at 10 a.m. when forensic biologist Jennifer McLean will resume testimony on DNA evidence

I'm waiting for an article to summarize what the evidence showed today. JMO

Me too Matou! I think I understand what happened, but I sure would like to have that confirmed by MSM or someone that was at the trial. Plus, I think a lot of the details were left out in the tweeting - not that I don't appreciate the tweeters very, very much. But I think there was more testimony regarding the coat and a few other things that just didn't get tweeted because they weren't seen as "smoking guns." Kwim?

Salem

 

[Oldsoul2]

What I got from the evidence today is pretty simple. IMO

1)Tori's blood was determined to be found in that car ( TLM testified she was killed outside of the car, no reason for any blood to be in that car in the first place in three locations)

2) MR has had lots of sex in his car so having his sperm in there is very possible but as I understood it, the door handle had Toris blood and MRs sperm, was he left handed or right handed should he have touched himself and than opened the door, what's the chances of the two mixing in this tiny little sample if he didn't rape her?

3) The evidence has proven that Tori died from multiple blows to the head and showed broken ribs and a lacerated spleen. (TLM testified she was kicked and struck with a hammer outside the car) Why would I or a jury believe this all transpired in the car or that it is remotely possible that all this happened and than they put Tori back in the car which is why there are blood stains everywhere?

IMO Sorry folks, I would still conclude MR raped her if I was on this jury based on this evidence

 

[matou]

Also, the piece of his back seat upholstery with foam attached was found and was cut out using a knife like the one he used. Why cut up his missing seat?JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

3) The evidence has proven that Tori died from multiple blows to the head and showed broken ribs and a lacerated spleen. (TLM testified she was kicked and struck with a hammer outside the car) Why would I or a jury believe this all transpired in the car or that it is remotely possible that all this happened and than they put Tori back in the car which is why there are blood stains everywhere?

IMO Sorry folks, I would still conclude MR raped her if I was on this jury based on this evidence

Snipped for space and BBM

It was a lacerated liver which showed by doing microscopic tests that it was caused before the head wounds, so Tori was alive when her liver was lacerated.

 

[snoofer]

What I got from the evidence today is pretty simple. IMO

1)Tori's blood was determined to be found in that car ( TLM testified she was killed outside of the car, no reason for any blood to be in that car in the first place in three locations)

2) MR has had lots of sex in his car so having his sperm in there is very possible but as I understood it, the door handle had Toris blood and MRs sperm, was he left handed or right handed should he have touched himself and than opened the door, what's the chances of the two mixing in this tiny little sample if he didn't rape her?

3) The evidence has proven that Tori died from multiple blows to the head and showed broken ribs and a lacerated spleen. (TLM testified she was kicked and struck with a hammer outside the car) Why would I or a jury believe this all transpired in the car or that it is remotely possible that all this happened and than they put Tori back in the car which is why there are blood stains everywhere?

IMO Sorry folks, I would still conclude MR raped her if I was on this jury based on this evidence

no doubt in my mind that Tori was taken for nefarious reasons and MTR is your typical stranger child murderer.JMO

http://thealphabetkiller.com/portrait-of-a-child-abduction-murder/

 

[swedie]

Not necessarily ... disclosure .... the Crown would have provided the defence with a list of its witnesses and what they were expected to testify to so her testimony was more or less just to confirm what kind of condition the car was in prior to April 8. The inside had been primed, the car was fairly clean and the back seat was intact.

JMO

IMO nope. That fact that the preliminary hearing was done away with, would not give the defense any indication of what the Crown was going to ask the witness. The defense would only be privy to a witness list. And Salem found in the one tweet, this friend of MR's who testified today said the inside was clean. I took that to mean that only the dash was whitewashed, not the rest of the interior. She also claimed the back seat was still in the car in late March 2009. :moo: HTH.

While Crawley could not comment specifically on Rafferty's case, he said direct indictments are used when Crown counsel has concluded there is a “reasonable prospect of conviction.”

Preliminary hearings are held to see if there is enough evidence to go to trial.

Rafferty's lawyer, Dirk Derstine, said he is disappointed with the decision.

“I think that the preliminary inquiry is an excellent place for starting the process of determining whether a case is proper or truthful or not,” Derstine said.

“We're not particularly happy it's being taken away from us.”

The ministry's reasons, including saving time, don't justify the “extraordinary step,” Derstine said.

“It won't have sped up the trial probably by one day.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...in-tori-stafford-death-goes-straight-to-trial

Preliminary hearings are the norm in Canada and allow a judge to decide if there is enough evidence to go to trial.

"I think a preliminary hearing is useful for ferreting out the truth," Derstine said.

The hearings also give defence lawyers a chance to assess the Crown's case and lay the groundwork for a counter attack, Syd Usprich, a University of Western Ontario law professor, said.

"It is a useful tool for the defence," he said. "It gives the defence a preliminary bite of the apple."

Defence lawyers can compare witnesses' testimony in the preliminary hearing and trial to expose holes and contradictions, Usprich noted.

Direct indictments "are not used very often," he said.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2605223

 

[swedie]

OMG a Christian site...he sure did get around:what:

Now I have that tune in my head
...Round round get around...I get around:what:

JMO

Spreading the good word? :floorlaugh::woohoo:

OMG wonder what else MR spread.:sick::furious:

 

[ChaChaCha]

What I got from the evidence today is pretty simple. IMO

1)Tori's blood was determined to be found in that car ( TLM testified she was killed outside of the car, no reason for any blood to be in that car in the first place in three locations)

2) MR has had lots of sex in his car so having his sperm in there is very possible but as I understood it, the door handle had Toris blood and MRs sperm, was he left handed or right handed should he have touched himself and than opened the door, what's the chances of the two mixing in this tiny little sample if he didn't rape her?

3) The evidence has proven that Tori died from multiple blows to the head and showed broken ribs and a lacerated spleen. (TLM testified she was kicked and struck with a hammer outside the car) Why would I or a jury believe this all transpired in the car or that it is remotely possible that all this happened and than they put Tori back in the car which is why there are blood stains everywhere?

IMO Sorry folks, I would still conclude MR raped her if I was on this jury based on this evidence

I am thinking more of blood transfer ... the drops were so tiny, not enough to determine (from what I understand so far - hoping for clarification) the secondary donor or whether semen (let's call it that yech) was present.

On the door handle? The missing one or did I miss a tweet? Yes, it was definitely a disgusting cesspool of a vehicle. Who knows what was on the bottom part of that back seat ? The backrest was gross enough.

I don't think I would say that there were bloodstains "everywhere" ... still thinking transfer at this point.

I hope that tomorrow the expert will clearly summarize. I would think that Derstine may cross examine her on her findings in any case.

JMO

 

[ammie]

Just reading and reading here as well as any media comment I have been able to find. And this since the beginning of Tori's abduction.
From past history of the CFS I am not that confident as they have flubbed it on a case or two, most notably that of the murder of little Christine Jessop.
Not in the least saying MR is not guilty but I am having doubts re the G/F's coughing up of admittance and plea bargaining.
So sad and unhappy little Tori lost her life. For the first time in her life she was permitted to walk home without a relative and TM was there to snatch her away and I have always wondered the odds of this happening.

 

[Maple1]

I wonder if they found MTR's sperm elsewhere in the vehicle, given his supposed propensity for spanking his monkey in the car.

If MTR's sperm (or any other male for that matter) was NOT found elsewhere in the car, and only found in combination with Tori's DNA, then what are the chances that:

a) the one drop of sperm found happened to land into the same drop of DNA that belonged to an abducted, assaulted and murdered child in that car

b) any other male contributor deposited that particular sample on any date in history, and Tori's DNA just happened to land on top of it to create this unique combination of her DNA with male sperm.

ETA: Absolutely no offence to monkeys. They do not warrant spanking

Thanks sillybilly. MOO, defense may use the testimony of LTM that she had sex with MR on there first meeting. So his semen and or any DNA from LTM would be very possible. His defense will possibly bring forward evidence/witnesses that MR used his car as a second bedroom and that any evidence of his semen DNA would not prove sexual assault of anyone.
It was too bad they were not able to prove sexual assault by MR of Tori through her remains. Wait and see I guess.:moo: