Trial Thread 4/12/2012

[Kamille]

But in REALITY what are the chances they weren't???

One in 28 billion? :waitasec: :floorlaugh:

I think it's obvious, as we had to have known when they decided to proceed with this trial after discovery, that all of the forensics in this case are not going to be useful to figuring out what happened. Way too much time evolved, way too much evidence was destroyed or compromised in some way and so this case will have to be solved with good old fashioned common sense.

MOO

 

[Bravo]

I think this explains it

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
In some spots sperm fraction was found, semen was ruled out as being present. But, surface may have been washed, McLean says.

 

[robynhood]

...now I am really confused too...HELP...Did they not identify at least one sample as M.R and it was quoted that the chances of it not being MR"S was next to impossible ? ......PLEaSE someone let us know that I am not lousy it here ...so very confusing by the last questions from defense......hope a poster clarifies this ....????....Salem or Swede or Matou usually do .....confused too???.....robynhood

 

[Bravo]

Semen is the fluid containing sperm.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
McLean stresses that of the 3 sources of DNA on the gym bag 1 is from blood. Doesn't mean all 3 came from blood

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine has a sheet showing ways three different DNA profiles could be in one spot (like on the gym bag). McLean given time to look at it.

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
Derstine presents McLean w a doc that lists the different ways 3 types of DNA could end up on the gym bag. Morning recess called


RaffertyLFP: Derstine presents McLean with different scenarios for mixed DNA sample - Court takes 20 minute recess

 

[daisy.faithfull]

with the amount of DNA in the car and the locations of where it was found tells a story but so does the lack of DNA.

Yes, but there are many possible stories/reasons for what we aren't seeing. First, how do we know that something that isn't there ever was there. And even if it never was there that doesn't mean that something happened that could have put it there. YKWIM?

 

[CarrieBean]

I think this explains it

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
In some spots sperm fraction was found, semen was ruled out as being present. But, surface may have been washed, McLean says.

But they're saying it may not have come from semen. I hope she explains herself.

 

[Salem]

Firstly, its my first attempt at bringing a quote from a closed board forward, so pls forgive me if I've done so badly! Secondly, I added the bold in the quote for clarity.

I was wondering whether there was any way for the forensics to determine how fresh the sperm was that they found? However unlikely, is it possible that the sperm was already there when Tori's blood got in the car? I'm not asking as a means to defend MR, so pls don't take it that way but I do wonder whether this is a point his defense might ask the witness about. If there is no way to tell how old it was, then will Derstine say the blood sample was contaminated by his sperm which was already there from prior sexual acts in his car? Clearly he was boinking at least TLM and who knows who else in that car.

Of course Derstine will say this. He has to defend his client with any means possible within the law. It will be for the jury to look at all the evidence presented, both direct evidence and circumstantial evidence, weigh it against any defense that Derstine/MR present and determine the truth of the matter to the best of their ability.

The jury has much more info than we do - they have seen the tape of TLM's confession as well as her testimony in court. They have heard ALL of the scientific explanations/theories (where we are only getting tweets). I think the jury will weigh all the factors and come to a conclusion. Whatever they decide - unlike the CA case, where we had ALL the info, I will not argue with this jury's decision because they have so much more info than we do.

Salem

 

[Macright]

this is getting stranger by the minute...I thought the crown told us that forensic evidence will tell the tale..so far I am not convinced...the blond hairs have thrown me for a loop..can they not even tell whether they are human...

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I believe TLM's account was vague about the time she got back to Woodstock. I think she said sometime between 9-10pm. But what is interesting is that they left Guelph headed for the crime scene just after 5pm. The drive to the location should be just under an hour. So they must have arrived there around 6pm. And they were still there at 7:47pm, likely just leaving which is why he was checking his phone. That's a lot of time for a walk while a murder takes place and then moving a deceased body to a rock pile. You'd think he would have wanted to get out of there quick. Or did he walk to Mt Forest and back while all that was going on? :waitasec:

MOO

I have a time frame of 9 to 10 pm in my notes for when they returned to Woodstock, but I don't know which article I got that from.

And when I was looking at the timeline this am I wondered about how long they stayed in MF afterwords too.

 

[Oldsoul2]

All that is needed is reasonable doubt

And if were going to be reasonable, like I posted before, what's the chance of that happening on two different occasions? Than the defense is basically saying that this crime occured in the car, doubtful

 

[robynhood]

Bravo ...I understand what you posted ...but defense is say sperm just got there ....very confused ???/....robynhood ...thanks ...help ..confused along with Kamille????

 

[Bravo]

Bravo ...I understand what you posted ...but defense is say sperm just got there ....very confused ???/....robynhood ...thanks ...help ..confused along with Kamille????

Perhaps trying to imply that it was merely a transfer after one of Rafferty's liasons.

 

[Oldsoul2]

Also, they have a witness and a conviction from someone who was there saying this is what happened. She has nothing to lose and it seems everything she said occured is showing in all the evidence, we can't disclude that.

 

[CarrieBean]

Of course not, but we're not on the jury

 

[Salem]

@AM980_Court

• There were two DNA profiles. One was male.

This is huge to me. That it is possible MR's blood was also on these shoes. Wow!

Salem

 

[daisy.faithfull]

The spot where the little x is to refresh my web browser on my iPad is going to be worn down. I'm grateful that they okayed tweets from the court, but sometimes it is so frustrating how long it takes to get one little scrap of info. Urg!

Anyways, thank you to the re-tweeters here at Websleuths for all your hard work!

 

[nettie_82]

They did shampoo the car.

AM980.ca ‏
They shampooed the inside to the car. McClintic cleaned the floor mats at a separate bay.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

This is huge to me. That it is possible MR's blood was also on these shoes. Wow!

Salem

It's not as likely that he would have gotten blood spatter on his shoes if he wasn't around when the injuries were occurring.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Jury has returned. Derstine's page back on the screen.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
The page has a series of ways three people's DNA may be on the same spot.