Trial Thread 4/13/2012

[crazyladi]

I still dont think that TLM knew he/she was going to kill someone that day.

Her target wasnt little kids it was people of authority.

IF she did kill her I really dont think it was because something (rape) made her snap.

I really feel that MTR had this all figured out. Something that took years of planning.

This was a thought out abduction, rape and murder.

TLM seems more like the spontaneous type where MTR is more of a thinker and observer

 

[Kamille]

just the poor little doggie which she placed in a micro wave....not sure if that was for revenge but not something a normal child would do.......:moo:

Pretty sure it wasn't. So there are none then?

 

[Macright]

Pretty sure it wasn't. So there are none then?

true we don't know for certain.... but I am going to continue to think that it was a revenge of sorts...maybe not towards the dear little animal but maybe someone in authority...:moo:

 

[tmhco]

I still dont think that TLM knew he/she was going to kill someone that day.

Her target wasnt little kids it was people of authority.

IF she did kill her I really dont think it was because something (rape) made her snap.

I really feel that MTR had this all figured out. Something that took years of planning.

This was a thought out abduction, rape and murder.

TLM seems more like the spontaneous type where MTR is more of a thinker and observer

I wonder if she did it out of jealousy? Tori had to go anyway. Must have been difficult to watch such a fine catch with someone else.

That was the most disturbing thing I have ever typed. JMO

 

[matou]

Diwell also told the court that Rafferty, whose vehicle then was a Honda, was fastidious about it and would often take it to a self-serve car wash, sometimes twice a week. She recalled going to car washes in Guelph, Kitchener and Cambridge.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/c...a-where-tori-s-body-was-found-worksheets-show

 

[brighidin]

Diwell also told the court that Rafferty, whose vehicle then was a Honda, was fastidious about it and would often take it to a self-serve car wash, sometimes twice a week. She recalled going to car washes in Guelph, Kitchener and Cambridge.

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/c...a-where-tori-s-body-was-found-worksheets-show

Thanks for bring this tidbit up. I was trying to read along (logged out) during the day and forgot about this. This was a very damning piece of evidence. The parade of women was disturbing, but this was a girl he had a reasonably long relationship with.

 

[matou]

Rafferty, she also said, told her his stepson had died a couple of weeks earlier.

Why did he wait until April 11th to tell her about his newly dead stepson? Why not discuss it before Tori's disappearance or on the 9th when he spoke with Amanda (or texted her, not sure) about searching for Tori at the train tracks? JMO

http://www.guelphmercury.com/news/c...a-where-tori-s-body-was-found-worksheets-show

 

[Tahorn]

I still dont think that TLM knew he/she was going to kill someone that day.

Her target wasnt little kids it was people of authority.

IF she did kill her I really dont think it was because something (rape) made her snap.

I really feel that MTR had this all figured out. Something that took years of planning.

This was a thought out abduction, rape and murder.

TLM seems more like the spontaneous type where MTR is more of a thinker and observer

I am sorry but she microwaved her dog. Who made her do that?

 

[crazyladi]

I wonder if she did it out of jealousy? Tori had to go anyway. Must have been difficult to watch such a fine catch with someone else.

That was the most disturbing thing I have ever typed. JMO

I just feel thats what happened. I dont know why something just isnt right.

Something happened in January when she got into that fight with the other inmate and then pleaded guilty to her murdering Tori.

I am not saying she didnt do the deed I just feel that there is something not right with what she is saying about her changed story.

Why all of the sudden 3 months before the start of this trial did she change her testimony?

Everything else is matching up except who said and did what at that moment of time.

I am curious as to who here believes TLM actually killed Tori or if there are other people who are on the fence and others who believe she didnt.

I am stuck in the middle.

 

[myzzy]

another day closer for Tori

 

[crazyladi]

I am sorry but she microwaved her dog. Who made her do that?

I understand that. I totally agree she is a sociopath and she took responsibility for those actions. A little late but she did admit to them and didnt lie about it.

She is a sick women who confessed to this murder. She sure as hell didnt do it alone.

How do we know that MTR didnt kill animals? Maybe he bypassed that step and went straight to children. :twocents::moo:

 

[Kamille]

I understand that. I totally agree she is a sociopath and she took responsibility for those actions. A little late but she did admit to them and didnt lie about it.

She is a sick women who confessed to this murder. She sure as hell didnt do it alone.

How do we know that MTR didnt kill animals? Maybe he bypassed that step and went straight to children. :twocents::moo:

BBM

"He told me about his past, growing up, (it) wasn't the best," she testified. "He didn't really get along with his family at all, kind of had a bad childhood, got into a lot of trouble."

Rafferty told Cooney he didn't get along with his brother, she said. Court heard from another woman Thursday who said Rafferty told her he had a few brothers but wasn't close to them.

http://www.660news.com/news/nationa...tafford-s-mom-the-girl-would-be-ok-court-told

How convenient for the defendent that whatever he "got into a lot of trouble" for in his youth is not being brought up to question his credibility as a witness.

MOO

 

[BorgQueen]

Excerpt from Article:


Dry cleaning won’t destroy DNA. However, it may remove it from the clothing. The same is true for a washing machine, it doesn’t destroy DNA, but it may rinse it away. The DNA will be squeaky clean, too.
DNA is very, very tough and it “lives” inside cells. Bleach can destroy DNA, but doesn’t always degrade it down to individual nucleotides, which wouldn’t be testable. It really takes a lot of the chemical to totally beat forensic DNA dyes. Some scientists use bleach to wipe down their workstations between DNA tests to prevent cross-contamination and sample mixtures.

http://www.leelofland.com/wordpress/things-writers-should-know-about-dna/

My understandinng of the two blond hairs is that there wasn't enough mitochondrial DNA available from either strand to make an identification of the source.


My conclusion is that if drycleaning or washing clothes does not destroy DNA there is no reason to suspect that car shampoo would selectively eradicate the desirable DNA from the car interior while allowing years of accumulated stains, including the semen that everybody is so fond of talking about, saliva and blood to remain.


Just saying ...

You're correct; however, removing a car's seat WILL remove DNA from the car interior. That seat has what is needed to prove the accused is either guilty or not guilty, as charged. That seat is a major, major piece of this massively complicated puzzle. It is the centre piece, and without it, it is very difficult to tell what the picture is. :moo:

 

[nursebeeme]

since testimony is over for the day go ahead and move on over to the weekend discussion thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7787360#post7787360"]weekend discussion thread: 4/14-16/2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I wonder if she did it out of jealousy? Tori had to go anyway. Must have been difficult to watch such a fine catch with someone else.

That was the most disturbing thing I have ever typed. JMO

If you put quotes around the "fine catch" it helps. I'd have trouble saying that too

 

[matou]

I understand that. I totally agree she is a sociopath and she took responsibility for those actions. A little late but she did admit to them and didnt lie about it.

She is a sick women who confessed to this murder. She sure as hell didnt do it alone.

How do we know that MTR didnt kill animals? Maybe he bypassed that step and went straight to children. :twocents::moo:

I thought he did, at Better Beef. JMO

 

[SFB73]

I think the defence is trying to say "if there is no DNA evidence you cant find my client guilty"

In reality he is guilty and no if there is no DNA evidence there is testimony evidence that is matching to a T.

I would be utterly amazed if he was found not guilty.

The only DNA evidence they needed was the bloodspot left by Victoria Stafford... There was absolutely no reason whatsoever for that child to be in that car. Her bloodspot was all the evidence needed to prove the child was in the vehicle and there against her will. The smoking gun DNA evidence they hoped to find would have been a DNA mixture of Tori's and MR. Unfortunately that wasn't found... Hopefully the jury won't fall for the defense attorney's take on things, afterall his team is far from "the dream team" and MR is no OJ

We still have a murder charge and a kidnapping charge to get a conviction on, I don't see anyway around the kidnapping charge for the defense.... I, as a 38 year old male would never put any child other than my own, or children I had permission from their legal guardian or parent in my car at any time unless there were extenuating circumstance (ie life threatening situation etc) because I know that taking a child without permission or against their will is called kidnapping... I worldly fellow like MR with all the life experience and multiple jobs over the years would have known this too....

I'm pretty sure most on the jury will think likewise! Oh.... Wait, what If my 18 year old "girlfriend" duped me into thinking she had concent from a parent yet the little girl probably didn't know her at all...then had me pull into a retirement home parking lot across from the school the child attended, well out of the way of where someone "might see me" rather than just waiting on the street where all the other parents park and wait for their children, being the rocket scientist that I am, I never suspecting a public building may just have cameras that could capture the girlfriend who "duped" me leading a child away. Then have me drive an hour and a bit away from Woodstock, stopping at a Home Depot for a hammer and garbage bags (even though I play a contractor on POF, and wouldnt happen to have those items already) then onto a secluded area around what once were my old stomping grounds, where the child is eventually murdered during the time I was on a walkabout, because you know its perfectly normal to leave a girl who put a dog in a microwave alone with a child. Then I just happened upon the scene, thought hmmmm what do I do after a grizzly find like this??? Help Clean up the scene of course, then Dispose of the body by piling large heavy rocks onto it in a secluded area of a farmers field, clean my car and provide a change of clothes for the girlfriend, get back in the car head back home, even ask my girlfriend if she'd like something to eat while on the drive back to Woodstock, get home hop on the net and make a date on POF!!! Next day wake up and see my "girlfriend" all over the news leading a girl away from the school? Damn those cameras, so rather than go to the police with info I'd rather provide her with some hair dye i purchased earlier, so the girlfriend will be a short haired blonde ( she cut her hair as gum was stuck in it, making a point to save the hair with gum in it, just I case LE asked why the hair change) rather than a long haired brunette... Yeah that will work... They'll never suspect a thing as long as I can continue to date multiple women, remove a seat from my car, sand it down here and there. Join in the search for Tori.... Yeah... That's it, perfect plan!

Common sense friends...

Common sense can go further than any DNA evidence in this trial!

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I am sorry but she microwaved her dog. Who made her do that?

She said she did it because the dog was wounded and needed to be put down. She killed Tori because she got flashbacks about her own rape and didn't want to Tori to go through that anymore. Do you see a parallel?


There is no doubt she has a very twisted way of seeing things. No one is saying she isn't sick in the head, but as I said before, she is overt about it.

 

[Tahorn]

She said she did it because the dog was wounded and needed to be put down. She killed Tori because she got flashbacks about her own rape and didn't want to Tori to go through that anymore. Do you see a parallel?


There is no doubt she has a very twisted way of seeing things. No one is saying she isn't sick in the head, but as I said before, she is overt about it.

Before Derstine ended his cross-examination of McClintic, jurors heard about another incident from her troubled past: As a child she put a dog in a microwave, but made up a story that the animal had been injured by another neighbourhood dog and had to be put down.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/03/23/stafford-rafferty-trial-friday.html

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I just feel thats what happened. I dont know why something just isnt right.

Something happened in January when she got into that fight with the other inmate and then pleaded guilty to her murdering Tori.

I am not saying she didnt do the deed I just feel that there is something not right with what she is saying about her changed story.

Why all of the sudden 3 months before the start of this trial did she change her testimony?

Everything else is matching up except who said and did what at that moment of time.

I am curious as to who here believes TLM actually killed Tori or if there are other people who are on the fence and others who believe she didnt.

I am stuck in the middle.

In the beginning I believe both of them did it. But after hearing all the evidence, I think he raped Tori, and manipulated TLM into killing her. She had no flashbacks, I think that's a lie because she can't come to terms with what she did. I think that MTR goaded her and dared her just like she said. If TLM hadn't been there, perhaps MTR would have killed Tori himself, but hey how convenient he had a girl who was a drug addict and high on god knows what drugs and ready to do anything for a bit of love. I think he opened the trunk for her. Oh and he abviously wasn't as high as she was, because according to her when she asked for more percs he told her no that she was already too high.