Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[momtective]

I respect yours as well. And I agree with you on the jury system. And, I would jump out there and say that there is probably not one single person on WS who doesn't want Lisa to come home safely. It's just that some people are never going to be convinced, even if the baby was found in the backyard. There are still those that will say that a kidnapper did it. I want justice for this child if she doesn't come home alive.

BBM
Not me...that right there would definitely knock my :behind: off the fence.

 

[Ellebelle]

http://www.urbanchristiannews.com/u...s-say-they-saw-infant-being-carried-away.html
ETA http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129
"Earlier today, three witnesses in two Kansas City locations told "Good Morning America" they were convinced they saw a man carrying a baby matching Lisa's description the night she disappeared from her Missouri bedroom."

Just jumping off your post because of your link, but if I saw this man carrying a child, or even had a child walking along side them, with no clothes on but a diaper or underwear, am I the only one that would have followed him somehow and turned him in right then? Without knowing anything else of what was to come with Baby Lisa, I would have done it in a snap! Guess I'm nosy and need to mind my own business sometimes but no child needs to be outdoors without clothes on when it's that cold!

For the record I am the person that calls in people that I think are drunk drivers, and kids playing in the busy street. I am always thinking of the what ifs and it scares me to think of what could happen. It's a mean old world out there sometimes and if we don't look out for each other then who will? \

JMO

 

[tink92]

I'm with you on the dog. I would need more than one dog hitting on that spot. As much as I trust dogs, false positives are very common.

So much this!!!....People seem to be putting a LOT of basis on the dogs hit when in fact false hits are indeed common. It will take a lot more to convince me the parents are guilty. Iam indeed keeping an open mind.:fence:

 

[tink92]

BBM
Not me...that right there would definitely knock my :behind: off the fence.

I agree!...I don't understand anyone thinking we can NEVER be convinced of a parents guilt. I most certaintly can be convinced..I was 100% convinced of Caseys guilt..I sat through that whole trial and it was a travesty she got off!

But I don't see any sign of guilt here...yet! Irresponsible parenting yes..murder one....nope no sign yet.

 

[tink92]

I agree 100%. There are people who will never change their minds on both sides of the fence. I also agree everyone here would love to see Lisa come home. My point, if I didn't word it well, is that my fear is people who may see baby Lisa may discount that it could be her b/c they have already made up their minds to the contrary.
I'm already reading that some people seem to think it makes sense a grown man would be out carrying a doll at midnight to 4 am, than to admit it could be a viable sighting, and it's that mentality that scares me. I live in a pretty weird neighbourhood where alot of meth users and dealers live, a few are total nuts, but I've yet to see a grown man out carrying a doll. Although it may happen yet ...

Word! Anyone who thinks they KNOW what happened exactly Iam not even going to listen to anymore. On BOTH sides of the equation. iam all for theory as long as people realise that is all it is a THEORY..not a FACT!

 

[NancyA]

Just jumping off your post because of your link, but if I saw this man carrying a child, or even had a child walking along side them, with no clothes on but a diaper or underwear, am I the only one that would have followed him somehow and turned him in right then? Without knowing anything else of what was to come with Baby Lisa, I would have done it in a snap! Guess I'm nosy and need to mind my own business sometimes but no child needs to be outdoors without clothes on when it's that cold!

For the record I am the person that calls in people that I think are drunk drivers, and kids playing in the busy street. I am always thinking of the what ifs and it scares me to think of what could happen. It's a mean old world out there sometimes and if we don't look out for each other then who will? \

JMO

Only reason I can think for a scenario like that is in the case of an infant febrile convulsion ie in order to bring down quickly a child's sudden high temperature it's advisable to strip 'em off and carry them outside to a colder environment. Thing is though, the average passerby wouldn't necessarily have the experience with childhood febrile convulsions for that to be their first thought, so I agree with you, a sighting like that should ring alarm bells. I'd have to at least consider stopping and checking everything was ok.

 

[NancyA]

I'm with you on the dog. I would need more than one dog hitting on that spot. As much as I trust dogs, false positives are very common.

I do trust the dogs and their handlers, they have a very high accuracy rating, but it makes sense to me that there has to be more than one hit by one dog in one spot , that is enough for probable cause but to be BARD it has to be supported by more. If LE comes out and confirms hits by at least two dogs on the bed or other surface in the house then I'm off the fence.

 

[dizzychick]

Where is Tim Miller, ? Did Casey Anthony ruin him or break his bank? I know the poor guy spent a fortune on this case. We could really use his expertise. Remember he said a mother places a child within q 3 mile radius of the home and w/o a car I would think even closer, unless there is a 3rd party involved.

 

[carole]

Where is Tim Miller, ? Did Casey Anthony ruin him or break his bank? I know the poor guy spent a fortune on this case. We could really use his expertise. Remember he said a mother places a child within q 3 mile radius of the home and w/o a car I would think even closer, unless there is a 3rd party involved.

I believe he only responds to a missing person case if the family asks him to conduct a search.

 

[dizzychick]

I believe he only responds to a missing person case if the family asks him to conduct a search.

well its time to call him ! but I can only imagine what would go through his mind poor Caylee all over agin.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I believe she might be guilty of drinking, maybe even neglect, but I'm just not convinced she killed her baby. Cops lie too http://policelink.monster.com/train...g-to-a-suspect-how-far-can-an-investigator-go and would it be a shame if she really had absolutely nothing to do with Lisa's disappearance and LE has put her through this.

Hi momtective. :wave: My family and I have experienced a bit of some of those techniques from LE. But, since we were all being truthful, those methods only helped to reinforce and prove our honesty and move the case along to a successful conclusion. Because of our experience, I have to say I stand with Marc Klaas when he says, "Defense attorneys argue that the police cannot be trusted. However, the majority of law enforcement officers are dedicated preserving the peace, protecting the innocent, and finding the truth. The best way to assist them in finding the truth is to cooperate, clear yourself, and allow them to explore other avenues of investigation." And he further states, "When Polly disappeared, I did not understand my rights. I thought I had to talk to the police. I now know better, but it would not have made any difference. I reacted as do most innocent victim family members. I walked into the police station ready to turn in family members if necessary to bring Polly home." (http://www.klaaskids.org/1997/Summer 1997.pdf)

I wish Baby Lisa's parents were honest and innocent enough that they had nothing to fear from LE's questions but it doesn't appear, to me, that even they feel they are. :dunno:

 

[lorann]

We have followed many cases here from the beginning and formed our opinions of the innocence or guilt of parents or spouses. I do not know how the ones who have been proven to be truthful find the incredible strength to appear in the media constantly, and open up their homes and lives to everybody. And we know LE suspects parents/spouses while also follow other investigations. LE have hinky meters and would be remiss to not follow their instincts. I was a parent who felt when something happened, small accidents etc., it was my fault for not paying more attention. Have these parents ever said, I feel so guilty, I should have XX or I shouldn't have ?

When relatives or friends with children came to visit, the kids usually were in my kids room playing. I would check on them periodically to see what they were doing. Even though a video was on does not mean they were watching it. When my daughter was four, she would have had to go look at a baby... my son not so much. Same if I was a visitor - check to see what my kids were up to, what one kid does't think of, two more sure can. My daughter was the oldest, only two years older but she loved to tattle - so she would have come outside where I was sitting to do her duty.

 

[tlcya]

I have had to pull away from this case a bit. Still perched on my fencetop trying oh so hard to keep and open mind heart and eyes. I find it too difficult to continue posting regularly on this one as there is such a large number of members who have decided in their opinion that the parents are responsible. What can I post? I still do not feel there is enough evidence to point to their guilt? Okay, there I have posted it. But then what?

Where do I go from there? Do I rabidly defend them against each post that expresses another opinion? That is silly and unhelpful and childish. So here I sit, perched and silent, waiting for something of substance to come to light which can pull me off the fence to land definitively on one side or the other. Til then I will be in lurk mode.

 

[liltexans]

I have had to pull away from this case a bit. Still perched on my fencetop trying oh so hard to keep and open mind heart and eyes. I find it too difficult to continue posting regularly on this one as there is such a large number of members who have decided in their opinion that the parents are responsible. What can I post? I still do not feel there is enough evidence to point to their guilt? Okay, there I have posted it. But then what?

Where do I go from there? Do I rabidly defend them against each post that expresses another opinion? That is silly and unhelpful and childish. So here I sit, perched and silent, waiting for something of substance to come to light which can pull me off the fence to land definitively on one side or the other. Til then I will be in lurk mode.

Thank you for posting this. I'm in the same boat (or on the same fence with you, lol).

back to lurking...

 

[Magnifying Glass]

Let's for a moment start back at 1. All we have is a missing baby Lisa. No "hit" on a spot in the bedroom or a false hit if you will. No search warrant, no collected evidence to possibly point into the parents direction.

Then insert first what's been said. Words from the "players" involved. We'll even discard written media and go by interviews alone.

- DB by her own words drank enough to possibly black out. If true, it's grossly negligent. No excuses. If it's a lie it's probably to build a defense and if a defense is needed, well....that makes her a murderer, even if it wasn't pre-meditated.

- DB as a parent sees no problem in wanting adult time when the children are under her watch. Doesn't make her a murderer but won't get her "Parent of the Year" either.

- DB doesn't feel the need to talk to two possibly (and perhaps crucial) witnesses: Lisa's brothers and see what they know. You'd thik any information they might have would be important to her because it could help find Lisa.

Just a few things coming straight from Lisa's mom.

Then insert all the changing stories about that night. Doesn't make anyone a murderer either but it doesn't bode well for the level of truth and accuracy by DB and JI.

Insert LE, a cadaver dog hit (perhaps multiple) and a search warrant (an official document, not something spun by media) plus searches in (relative) close vicinity to the parents and the family home. It all screams "parent(s) did it."
Even if LE have been complete a-holes to DB and JI, even if cadaver hit is false positive, you can't disregard their own words and actions.

It may not scream instant murder or culprit but it most certainly doesn't scream "poor parents" either.

There is one victim here. Lisa. Certainly not DB who chose adult time above anything else. Maybe she's innocent of murder but IMO negligence is worse enough.


FWIW: I respect all opinions and respect how people try to stay on the fence for Lisa. I just needed to get this out.

ETA: this isn't about right or wrong when it comes to opinions on this case. In the end we all "lose" because a baby is gone.

All my opinion :twocents:

 

[~n/t~]

This is sort of off topic because it's not about Lisa but check out this kid getting out of his crib.

[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44997955#44997955"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]

 

[n4k]

This is sort of off topic because it's not about Lisa but check out this kid getting out of his crib.

msnbc.com Video Player

Cute, but those babies are older than 11 months.

 

[In da Middle]

I have had to pull away from this case a bit. Still perched on my fencetop trying oh so hard to keep and open mind heart and eyes. I find it too difficult to continue posting regularly on this one as there is such a large number of members who have decided in their opinion that the parents are responsible. What can I post? I still do not feel there is enough evidence to point to their guilt? Okay, there I have posted it. But then what?

Where do I go from there? Do I rabidly defend them against each post that expresses another opinion? That is silly and unhelpful and childish. So here I sit, perched and silent, waiting for something of substance to come to light which can pull me off the fence to land definitively on one side or the other. Til then I will be in lurk mode.

I'm right here with ya. The dogs do give me pause (pun was not intended hehe) though I will have to admit. Even if they are correct I am not sure who to blame though. I so don't want to believe somebody who seemed to take such good care of their kids could do it.

 

[n4k]

Only reason I can think for a scenario like that is in the case of an infant febrile convulsion ie in order to bring down quickly a child's sudden high temperature it's advisable to strip 'em off and carry them outside to a colder environment.

I respectfully disagree and the pediatric nurse in me won't let me overlook the fact that someone here may read this and take it as fact. The LAST thing you want to do is cause shivering which will actually INCREASE the temp more. You want to bring down the temp, yes..but slowly.

Do NOT take a febrile baby/child out into the cold air!

The best resource we have online is Mayo Clinic, right? http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/febrile-seizure/DS00346/DSECTION=treatments-and-drugs While it doesn't address taking outside into colder temp, it does say to not place in cold bath--for the same reason.

Not just moo, but factual Just wanting to keep all the little ones safe. Love those babies!

 

[In da Middle]

Cute, but those babies are older than 11 months.

Mine started doing it at about 9 months. They were walkers then too. It can happen.