TURKEY - George Smith, 26, missing from cruise ship, July 2005

[mysteriew]

He wasn't just thrown overboard. There was some sort of fight where it appears from the blood on the awning that was pooled. Pooled blood indicates to me that he was stabbed. There was also blood in their room. Lots of it. So how this bride could have woken up in the room and not noticed the blood and gone on her merry way is a mystery to me.

The neighbor also heard a woman's voice in the room and there was a scream, presumably when he was stabbed (I am just conjecturing.) If it wasn't Jennifer, then it is a real mystery who the other woman in their cabin was if Jennifer went back to the cabin.

By the way, he was 6'3". I think it took more than one man to throw him overboard. He was also so drunk that three men had to carry him back to his room, so I doubt if he was in any shape to gallavant off to get a bite to eat.

They are investigating the three drinking buddies of his now. Although they are saying up to five men are involved.

Do you have the link to this article/source? I would love to read that!

 

[BrendaStar]

No link. It's just a summation from "A Current Affair" and interviews on the "The Nancy Grace Show" and other justice related shows.

 

[Olivia77]

In an earlier post you said she had gone to bed.

From my original post: "As a bride to be I visited one of my favorite boards, The Knot, to see if the bride was a "knottie." It appears she was not, but I did find this posted by a bride who has a mutual friend of the couple:"

I never said she went to bed, the message I copied from another person said that. I also speculated my own theories at the end of that post, as I'm not taking what the friend said for fact, I just thought it was an interesting post and wanted to share. Sorry for any confusion. :blushing:

 

[nanandjim]

I'd be looking at the bride. I can't believe she would just go to the gym the next morning.:doh: :waitasec:

ariel

I would not be surprised if it turns out the bride was given GHB and doesn't remember anything that happened that night. I think that the bride is not speaking at the request of the FBI. It has been said that there is evidence that will prove that she had nothing to do with the case.

Witnesses said that they heard male voices arguing in the couple's cabin and then a loud thump. What if some guys gave both the bride and groom GHB with the intent of raping the wife? Wasn't it said that three Russians were seen helping the husband back to the cabin? I think that these guys fought with the husband, slit his throat and dumped him overboard.

I don't think the small wife could have accomplished this all by herself. What would be her motive anyway?

 

[BrendaStar]

I have been following it and posting on the Missing forum. I have been watching "Inside Edition" and other TV justice shows about it. "Inside Edition" has really made it it's mission to get to the bottom of this mystery.

I don't think the bridewas involved but: . ..s. she reportedly went back to the room
. the neighbor in the adjoining cabin heard a scream (assumed it was a woman's) at about 4 in the morning
. the neighbor heard a woman's voice in the room
. she woke up the next morning and went merrily on her way to the gym but didn't notice the large amount of blood in her room, on the handrail and on the awning?

They are looking into the two Russians and the other young man from Brooklyn now. All I know, it would take more than one man to throw George Smith overboard. He was quite large, being 6'3".

I think this will be solved long before the Natalee case. However, for being prosecuted, that is another story with all of the jurisdictions involved.

 

[chicoliving]

I moved the thread here to Crimes in the News which is more appropriate than the Holloway forum. The request for a forum for Mr. Smith is duly noted

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

That's also true of military bases and college and universities and lots of other places that people wouldn't even dream of. We were a part of the military for 13 years and believe me, people on the outside never hear about much of the crime that occurs on base because the military keeps it out of the MSM. Also happens the same way on college and university campuses...they don't want the word getting out their college campus may be unsafe. And after working for a large metropolitan police department I know that very rich, very prominent property owners who own malls, large hotels, etc., are capable of keeping the violence and crime that occurs at the mall property or hotel property out of the news and hush hush. People would never believe what all happens in a mall. And if they knew, they'd take extra precautions when going shopping - and they wouldn't be so quick to drop off their teenagers or kids there alone.

At least the military bases have trained MPs. My dad was one during his stint in Germany and went on to be a small town sheriff in the 1960s. The same can't be said of malls and (apparently) cruise ships, who seem to hire rent-a-cops who place a higher priorityon making sure $$$ keep getting spent. Appearance is everything in the leisure business, don't ya know.

 

[lisafremont]

Thanks, chico. I hope that this case gets its own forum because there are so many aspects to it.

I have so many questions concerning the sequence of events --- the woman in the cabin above the Smiths who photographed the blood also says that it was being cleaned at 7:30 am, if I am not mistaken.

What time did the bride get up?
How much blood was in the cabin?
Did she go to the gym as reported?
Who reported George's being missing?
At what time?
Why were they cleaning the blood at 7:30 am?
Were investigators able to take samples before that?

Clete _____ the man in the next stateroom said that he heard voices, male and female in the Smiths' cabin. The men sounded Spanish, he said. He said that he heard what sounded like a drinking game then arguing then "goodbyes" and furniture moving and a thud.

Others have said they heard a woman scream.


This is all very puzzling.

 

[nanandjim]

Thanks, chico. I hope that this case gets its own forum because there are so many aspects to it.

I have so many questions concerning the sequence of events --- the woman in the cabin above the Smiths who photographed the blood also says that it was being cleaned at 7:30 am, if I am not mistaken.

What time did the bride get up?
How much blood was in the cabin?
Did she go to the gym as reported?
Who reported George's being missing?
At what time?
Why were they cleaning the blood at 7:30 am?
Were investigators able to take samples before that?

Clete _____ the man in the next stateroom said that he heard voices, male and female in the Smiths' cabin. The men sounded Spanish, he said. He said that he heard what sounded like a drinking game then arguing then "goodbyes" and furniture moving and a thud.

Others have said they heard a woman scream.


This is all very puzzling.

Lisa - I can tell you what I have heard on the various talk shows. I just don't know how accurate it is.
*The wife slept on another deck in a deck chair and went to the gym from there. I don't understand that statement because (1) if she was so drunk, how did she feel well enough to go to the gym; and (2) didn't she have to return to the room to put on her gym gear?
*The room cleaners cleaning the room the next morning reported that there was blood found in the cabin.
*Samples were taken of the blood before it was cleaned up.

 

[Gozgals]

They are looking into the two Russians and the other young man from Brooklyn now. All I know, it would take more than one man to throw George Smith overboard. He was quite large, being 6'3".

I think this will be solved long before the Natalee case. However, for being prosecuted, that is another story with all of the jurisdictions involved.

I too have followed this case from the start. I think the media has presented many theories, and misrepresentations (as usual) about what the facts are. I'm a tad bit confused on what is true, what is fluff.

I did submit thoughts in the missing section on this case. I still feel the plan was hatched inside the casino. Either the Russkies got all bent out of joint knowing that their was a cashroll in the room, (or assuming their was).

I base this on the facts presented:

George was stated to be drunk and on his honeymoon.
He was seen buying drinks for those in the casino. (this is not cheap)
Note: Flashing the cash.
They are young, well she still is.
She was know to be drunk and wasted too.
They look like the perfect pawns.

What happens there is anyone's guess but I think they were made in the casino.

Either George, being on his honeymoon took them as friendly folks, invited them to his cabin, they indulged in drinking games, (screams could have either been due to fun, and horsing around, even at that age, or a scuffle starting).

Makes me wonder why someday didn't bud in, but not all bud in LIKE ME...:bang: :bang: Some feel it is their responsibility to do this. Not all believe it is their place. I have learned in life, I usually do when I witness a situation that is off.

The Russkies, If indeed they are involved may have wanted the cash, and have wanted to tango with the wife. We are still unsure of what role she played in all this, (and I don't think murder or any sort of foul play!)- to explain further, maybe being too drunk to realize the con was being set up.

Many questions remain:
Why the blood, why the clean up.
In regard to the family not talking, could be for various reasons;
----Shame, privacy, etc. After all, they were on their honeymoon. Maybe as a society we expected them to hang out in their room, (many don't). Many party or go explore the ship, drink in excess, gamble, dance, etc.

The wife going to the gym in the morning may not be too hinky in itself. If I woke up on a boat or elsewhere, this could have taken place. If one wakes up before me, they would know where I am according to my hobbies and expect that and not question. (until they could not locate me) If she knew his habits -say he liked to walk, golf early, why worry. If she used a gym, or swam, why worry.

To the fact: She went to the gym without gear, that is strange, unless she was so whacked out, hung over, she maybe wanted to hang in the suana and suits are provided. I'm playing the D.Advocate here.

I'm just happy they are looking into this case.

The quote above states: "I think this will be solved long before the Natalee case. However, for being prosecuted, that is another story with all of the jurisdictions involved." BrendaStar.

This could be true, but ....I'm swinging both ways. George could be anywhere out there, and not found. And, and another fact- as in being proscuted , that is a whole story in itself. The jurdisiction is not clear-

Though I think it was posted in the other thread by someone familiar with the laws.

Note: I too heard she may have been drugged. I have not confirmed this either, which could lead to the theory suggested, they wanted her too, but ll wanted his money more!

I'm glad we are giving attention to this missing man too .
G

 

[Rachael]

My MIL watches Greta and CC. She told me that the wife was found in the morning asleep on a lounge chair on the deck. I am not sure if it's true or not but from what my MIL said it seems if they were both drugged or at least the wife was. Has anyone else heard this?

 

[mysteriew]

Connecticut's top federal prosecutor would not confirm reports yesterday that investigators are considering two Russian men and a California teenager as possible suspects in the mysterious disappearance of a Greenwich man from a Mediter-ranean cruise ship last month.

"We feel we were pretty straightforward a couple of weeks ago when we acknowledged the investigation, but we're not going to make any comment," U.S. Attorney for Connecticut Kevin O'Connor said. "We're going to leave it at that."

Yesterday morning, a legal analyst on NBC's "Today" show cited an unidentified law enforcement official who told her investigators were focusing on two Russian men and a California teenager who partied with Smith, a Glenville native, the last night he was seen, according to the transcript. The show reported the three men assisted the intoxicated Smith back into his room after his new bride, Jennifer Hagel, 25, of Cromwell, passed out in a lounge area, according to the show transcript. In addition, the segment reported investigators did not suspect Hagel of any wrongdoing.

NBC legal analyst Susan Filan, a former assistant state's attorney in Bridgeport, said yesterday that because of inconsistencies between the three people's accounts, investigators believe foul play is involved.

C. Thomas Greer, a San Diego attorney representing the teenager, said his client is cooperating with the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's Office but declined further comment.

Hagel could not be reached for comment yesterday, and a home phone number for George Allen Smith III was not in service. A spokeswoman for Royal Caribbean Cruise Line declined to comment.

The two Russian men are naturalized residents living in Brooklyn, N.Y., and are in their early 20s, Filan said.
http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/l...7304490.story?coll=green-news-local-headlines

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

There was also blood in their room. Lots of it. So how this bride could have woken up in the room and not noticed the blood and gone on her merry way is a mystery to me.

I've heard varying accounts of the amount of blood in the room, and it's location. So who knows - what's a lot to one may not be to another. And if it was only on the bed, the wife could have rolled right over it, and not even noticed if she was hung-over or just plain tired - if she was even in the room.

Does anyone have a better description of the quantity & location(s) of the blood found in the room?

 

[poco]

"investigators believe foul play is involved."


duh...............

 

[nanandjim]

...My theory is that one of the Russian guys, or someone connected to them, tried to rob the groom, and tore his stateroom apart looking for the money. The bride, meanwhile, went "home" with someone else that night.

Wow. Thanks for all of the info--and thanks for your theory, which sounds logical to me. The whole thing is mind-boggling to me.

With their apparent lack of interest in one another, I wonder why this couple even got married. It sounds like they were totally out of control. I don't understand it. Why pay all that money to go on a cruise and get totally smashed every night, to the point where you pass out and don't know what is going on...

 

[T'sNana]

What another sad, sad situation! A spring break, a honeymood, the pregnant woman in PA, molested children and many, many more! I think we need to crack down on offenders and set an example for anyone else even thinking of doing such things to another human being. This world is getting so ridiculous! People just do whatever the heck they want to do anymore and a lot of them get by with it, slip through the cracks or just get a slap on the wrist. I know, in our town, people are getting themselves more educated, watching more things in their neighborhood, etc. We live in a rural, farmland area and meth is becoming the drug of choice and the people around here are really getting involved and it's so nice to see! I think the WORLD needs to get involved....one neighborhood at a time....at least in the US. JMO.

 

[Annie]

Several days ago based on the information that was available at the time, I thought they should be checking insurance, their relationship, whether he could have faked it, etc. I no longer believe it was any of those as more information has become available. Not as much information as I would like to have, but a few more things have been talked about. I now think he got mixed up with the wrong people that night and something happened. At first they were saying she slept in the room and went to the gym the next morning and I couldn't understand why she didn't see the blood, or how she could have gone to the gym and act normally if she did see the blood. Now I have heard that she slept elsewhere on the ship and was found in a chair. It is puzzling with the tidbits we have heard. I can't understand why they were saying the family refused to give blood samples. There is just a lot we don't know about the case, but at least I do not now think the bride was responsible.

 

[BrendaStar]

Why pay all that money to go on a cruise and get totally smashed every night, to the point where you pass out and don't know what is going on...

It sounded like one weird honeymoon. Drinking to excess every night and having more drinking parties in your cabin with single guys doesn't sound like what a lot of people think of as a honeymoon. But I guess nobody would have known if George hadn't disappeared in the middle of the trip.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I doubt that the wife was involved in the murder but she has said that she went to the room and went to bed.

The policeman who was in a room nearby has reported that he heard a woman's voice in the room along with the voices of men. He also said that it would have been impossible for George to have fallen over the rail...he stated that he is tall and he couldn't fall overboard. He said that the railing is to high to fall over. He said that even drunk a person couldn't fall overboard. He stated that when you are drunk the first thing to go is your legs and there is no way a person could go over or even get up on the railing if they were drunk. He believes that it would have taken more than one man to get George over the railing.

Another person on the ship close to the honeymooners cabin said that she heard a woman scream at 4 a.m. I get the feeling that Jennifer was there from the beginning but for some reason she isn't talking. She may have told the LE the truth or what she knows and it just isn't getting into the media.

It still isn't known if the family gave DNA yet but it has been said that they are cooperating with LE now. I don't know why they refused DNA at first but I believe that they did refuse. Maybe they couldn't face knowing at first

There was a man who was head of security for Canrival Cruise Lines at one time and he talked about all of the coverups on those ships....rapes and every other thing you can imagine. It sounded like a lot of it is the employees on the ships.

I remember when my daughter and I went on Carnival Cruise Lines. We had dinner at a table with a couple other mothers and their teen and older kids. One lady was from Arkansas and she was very attractive...wealthy and married. The head waiter had a thing for her. They flirted like crazy at every dinner. He made her some kind of music tape. I don't know if it went any further than flirting but I thought she was playing a dangeous game with someone from another country....someone she knew nothing about. She did get off the ship with us in Florida so I know she didn't get tossed overboard...thank heavens.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

It sounded like one weird honeymoon. Drinking to excess every night and having more drinking parties in your cabin with single guys doesn't sound like what a lot of people think of as a honeymoon. But I guess nobody would have known if George hadn't disappeared in the middle of the trip.

It sounds like they were/are both alcoholics. Sorry, if it offends friends of the probably deceased and his bride, but even people who were their friends have called the missing groom a hard drinker. This is the danger of getting seriously drunk outside your safety zone--it attracts predators.