TURKEY - George Smith, 26, missing from cruise ship, July 2005

[concernedperson]

I got tired of it as well, which is why I leaft 15 years ago. I think the rest of the world (especially Midwest America) sees it as a public urinal where they can go and get sloppy drunk. People may go to NYC to party, but they also go to shop and go to the museums and the ball park and the plays and the symphony. Same with Chicago, Boston,etc.
New Orleans people come to eat, drink and publically vomit/piss in this country's most scenic historic district's streets.

I got to say I agree with your assessment. The lingage blindness is more deplorable.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Oh my gosh. How incredibly sad. I have always wanted to go to New Orleans. I thought it was just kinda messy (from watching Cops during Mardi Gras) during the Mardis Gras period. Is it always that way? If so, guess I better make new travel plans.....

New Orleans is indeed a seedy place but it is also an amazing trip. There's something about New Orleans that you won't experience by visiting any other American city, (other than the public drunkenness)! I would recommend everyone visit New Orleans at least once but definitely be alert, and do your homework before you go. Current travel books will give you tips - for example, 1) since N.O. is below sea level, they do not bury people underground; they are all in mausoleums, and there are some of the most amazing grave-side statues I've ever seen. The cemetaries are interesting enough that they do cemetary tours. BUT - under no circumstances should you stroll through the cemetaries alone or even in a very small group as they are known to be places of muggings. 2) N.O. streets are very mixed. You could be on a beautiful street and turn the corner onto a dangerous street. It seems that safety level in New Orleans varies sometimes from street to street rather than from neighborhood to neighborhood.

So anyway, grab a travel guide, read up, and go ahead with your plans. As long as you have the information you need ahead of time, I don't think you'll be sorry that you went. To the contrary, you may end up being thrilled to have experienced such an interesting place.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

JG, I just finished reading this thread from the beginning and couldn't find an answer to a couple of questions. I may have missed it here as it's been a lot of reading.

1. Was the blood found in the cabin, and on the awning the same?
2. If the parents didn't supply a DNA sample couldn't they have gotten DNA from the victims personal items (i.e. tooth brush, hair comb'brush.underwear)

I don't know if it's ever been established that the blood is the same. I haven't heard an answer to that one way or the other.

I am not real clear on how DNA works. Isn't blood DNA stronger (more reliable) than DNA from hair and saliva? I hope that someone with DNA knowledge can help us out here. Isn't hair more difficult to work with and pinpoint? I believe that they have to test mitochondrial DNA in hair and that that has to be compared to the mother's family line or something like that; I heard an explanation before that I no longer remember.

For what it's worth, I have heard on several programs that the family and the wife are cooperating fully, and are giving the investigators what they need.

 

[kgeaux]

Oh my gosh. How incredibly sad. I have always wanted to go to New Orleans. I thought it was just kinda messy (from watching Cops during Mardi Gras) during the Mardis Gras period. Is it always that way? If so, guess I better make new travel plans.....

Do not go on a holiday when the crowds will be increased. I once watched a man be murdered--knifed--because some idiot wanted his corndog. The place was very crowded; it was New Year's Eve, the police were on horseback, and they were having to "baton" people to get them to step out of the way so the cops could approach the scene of the murder. It was HORRIBLE. The crowd began to run, and I'm short so I got somehow lifted off my feet and was being carried along in the crush. I guess that was lucky, because if I had fallen, I'd be dead now!

Do not wear "tourist" clothes. Do not walk around by yourself, travel in a crowd. An ex-boyfriend of mine was mugged and killed while walking back to his car after a game at the Superdome.

The city is incredible, there is so much to see and to offer, it is like no place else on earth. The Aquarium and museum are worth seeing, the little shops along the riverfront are so nice to browze through. It used to be that you could see little boys tap dancing with their hats out for donations, artists set up along the sidewalk with incredible paintings, crafty type things that were so original and unique--but I think they've stopped all the street vendors now.

If you go, be sure to get coffee and beignets, OMG SO GOOD!

And, yep, wear old shoes, NOT SANDALS! because idiots do pee into the gutter and on the sides of buildings on a very regular basis. Sad but true.

I live a couple of hours away from New Orleans, But I don't think I will never go back. IMO, there is a spiritual oppression that you can actually FEEL as you approach the city. My husband says I'm nuts, but I feel it!

 

[kgeaux]

I don't know if it's ever been established that the blood is the same. I haven't heard an answer to that one way or the other.

I am not real clear on how DNA works. Isn't blood DNA stronger (more reliable) than DNA from hair and saliva? I hope that someone with DNA knowledge can help us out here. Isn't hair more difficult to work with and pinpoint? I believe that they have to test mitochondrial DNA in hair and that that has to be compared to the mother's family line or something like that; I heard an explanation before that I no longer remember.

For what it's worth, I have heard on several programs that the family and the wife are cooperating fully, and are giving the investigators what they need.

I'm not an expert, but I'll share what I remember. Nucleur DNA is the type tested for and contained in hair roots, blood, skin, saliva, etc. It is the complete DNA strand contained within the nucleus of the cell, and carries the DNA inherited from both mother and father. If a hair is the only evidence found, and if it does not contain a root, then mitochrondrial DNA can be tested for. Mitochrondrial DNA is found outside of the nucleus of the cell, and contains only the DNA inherited from the mother. My grandmother, momma, and sisters and brothers mitochrondrial DNA would all be identical to mine, but our nucleur DNA would all be different.

I think (talking about the complete DNA strand here) that DNA is DNA no matter what material it is taken from, DNA from the blood is not stronger or more reliable than DNA from semen, for instance. I think it would matter more that what ever sample would be fresh and preserved correctly than what tissue it came from........as breakdown occurs and certain markers degrade and won't show up.

If they test the DNA from the cabin and from the awning, and they are both from the same individual, then that should be easy to prove no matter if some decomposition has taken place or not, because whatever markers are left in both samples would match.

In this particular case, I don't even know if they attempted to secure a sample from the room or the awning. It sounds as though they got in that room and cleaned it all up before the Turkish officials were notified. Very ignorant or deliberately trying to cover up a crime scene.

 

[BrendaStar]

In this particular case, I don't even know if they attempted to secure a sample from the room or the awning. It sounds as though they got in that room and cleaned it all up before the Turkish officials were notified. Very ignorant or deliberately trying to cover up a crime scene.

According to the TV talk/law shows, the Turkish officials investigated the room before they turned it back to the cruise line and was cleaned up. The FBI has all of the information now.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

New Orleans is indeed a seedy place but it is also an amazing trip. There's something about New Orleans that you won't experience by visiting any other American city, (other than the public drunkenness)! I would recommend everyone visit New Orleans at least once but definitely be alert, and do your homework before you go. Current travel books will give you tips - for example, 1) since N.O. is below sea level, they do not bury people underground; they are all in mausoleums, and there are some of the most amazing grave-side statues I've ever seen. The cemetaries are interesting enough that they do cemetary tours. BUT - under no circumstances should you stroll through the cemetaries alone or even in a very small group as they are known to be places of muggings. 2) N.O. streets are very mixed. You could be on a beautiful street and turn the corner onto a dangerous street. It seems that safety level in New Orleans varies sometimes from street to street rather than from neighborhood to neighborhood.

So anyway, grab a travel guide, read up, and go ahead with your plans. As long as you have the information you need ahead of time, I don't think you'll be sorry that you went. To the contrary, you may end up being thrilled to have experienced such an interesting place.

When I was living in NO the vice-president of Borden Milk was murdered, along with his wife, in broad daylight in St. Louis #1, one of the oldest above-ground cemeteries in the city. It's also full of rapists, as I knew more women who had been raped there--either abducted off the street or via home invasion--than anywhere else in this country. When i moved away in 1992, the murder rate was 2 a day, mostly drug-related.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

Do not go on a holiday when the crowds will be increased. I once watched a man be murdered--knifed--because some idiot wanted his corndog. The place was very crowded; it was New Year's Eve, the police were on horseback, and they were having to "baton" people to get them to step out of the way so the cops could approach the scene of the murder. It was HORRIBLE. The crowd began to run, and I'm short so I got somehow lifted off my feet and was being carried along in the crush. I guess that was lucky, because if I had fallen, I'd be dead now!

Do not wear "tourist" clothes. Do not walk around by yourself, travel in a crowd. An ex-boyfriend of mine was mugged and killed while walking back to his car after a game at the Superdome.

The city is incredible, there is so much to see and to offer, it is like no place else on earth. The Aquarium and museum are worth seeing, the little shops along the riverfront are so nice to browze through. It used to be that you could see little boys tap dancing with their hats out for donations, artists set up along the sidewalk with incredible paintings, crafty type things that were so original and unique--but I think they've stopped all the street vendors now.

If you go, be sure to get coffee and beignets, OMG SO GOOD!

And, yep, wear old shoes, NOT SANDALS! because idiots do pee into the gutter and on the sides of buildings on a very regular basis. Sad but true.

I live a couple of hours away from New Orleans, But I don't think I will never go back. IMO, there is a spiritual oppression that you can actually FEEL as you approach the city. My husband says I'm nuts, but I feel it!

The city has alot to offer, as long as you don't live there.
The economy is entirely tourism based now, which is different from when I first moved there, back when the oil companies were booming.
Then around 1986, they all packed up and left the area, and the city's been in dire economic striats ever since. There's not much to offer in the way of work--either you tend bar, cook food, clean hotel rooms, or wait tables. The only way to make any real money is prostitution, dealing drugs, or working at the casinos. That's it. I remember in 1988, 60K people--mostly the professional class--left the city for good. In one year alone, 15 people I knew or worked with left because they couldn't find decent jobs. From what I hear, it's not much better now.

 

[concernedperson]

The city has alot to offer, as long as you don't live there.
The economy is entirely tourism based now, which is different from when I first moved there, back when the oil companies were booming.
Then around 1986, they all packed up and left the area, and the city's been in dire economic striats ever since. There's not much to offer in the way of work--either you tend bar, cook food, clean hotel rooms, or wait tables. The only way to make any real money is prostitution, dealing drugs, or working at the casinos. That's it. I remember in 1988, 60K people--mostly the professional class--left the city for good. In one year alone, 15 people I knew or worked with left because they couldn't find decent jobs. From what I hear, it's not much better now.

I agree. The only difference is really good food but you are taking your life in danger as far as everything else. I was robbed there and just gave it up because I knew they would kill me in a flash. The oil companies are an illusion. Most are based in Houston and protected there. New Orleans is similar to Aruba...have a good time and hope you leave with your life. The PD there is akin to smirking most of the time. No real investigative work will be done unless you are gang related that they can pinpoint early on. That is a crimesolver in their opinion.They have a severe case of linkage as do most of the surrounding parishes.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

In this particular case, I don't even know if they attempted to secure a sample from the room or the awning. It sounds as though they got in that room and cleaned it all up before the Turkish officials were notified. Very ignorant or deliberately trying to cover up a crime scene.

Thanks for your information, kgeaux. I understand that DNA in blood and semen would be equally strong, (for lack of a better word), but isn't it different with hair? I seem to remember hearing that hair cannot necessarily provide a positive identification. Maybe that was just with broken hair?

I agree with you on the clean-up of the blood. I don't know if either location was tested, (I believe it was not), and I don't think that they could test it now as it has been cleaned up.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I agree. The only difference is really good food but you are taking your life in danger as far as everything else. I was robbed there and just gave it up because I knew they would kill me in a flash. The oil companies are an illusion. Most are based in Houston and protected there. New Orleans is similar to Aruba...have a good time and hope you leave with your life. The PD there is akin to smirking most of the time. No real investigative work will be done unless you are gang related that they can pinpoint early on. That is a crimesolver in their opinion.They have a severe case of linkage as do most of the surrounding parishes.

The NOPD is better than it used to be, believe it or not. When I first moved there there were actual death squads operating within the force, and the vice squad was disbanded while I was there due to extreme corruption. Shortly after I left it was discovered that numerous gangs had members within the PD, and one off-duty cop who moonlighteed as a security guard was shot and killed at a chinese restaurant just outside the Quarter when it held up by--his partner, who, when off-duty, was a armed robber with her gangbanging nephew. After that, there was a huge house cleaning. The thing is, a tourist is more apt to get more results from a NO cop than a native. I've known at least three people who were mugged, carjacked and/or had their car stolen while visiting the city for less than 3 days each. At least one of them got their car back, more or less, which is more than my ex-boyfriend could say about his Buick Regal--which was stolen three blocks from City Hall. In broad daylight.

 

[bugaboo]

There was an interview on the Today show about 7:30am with the lawyer of one of the men who helped George back to his room. They also showed clips of the interview that the man had with Turkish authorities. I believe his parents were taping the interview. It seemed really poorly done, since an interpreter had to relay his answers to the Turkish interviewer. At one point you see the man say that "you're missing a lot here". He contends that he and the 3 Russian men brought George back to the room around 4:30am, because he was so drunk he could not walk on his own. The wife was not in the room. George wanted to look for her, so they went to the Solarium and other places but still could not find her. They went back to the room, the man went to the bathroom, and then they all left. There was also mention of blood on a towel, but I didn't catch the whole story.

I couldn't find a posting on the Today show website yet, but I'm sure they'll put it up today. Interesting stuff.

 

[PaperDoll]

Thanks bugaboo for this info... it is interesting... They didn't say why there was blood on a towel? Who noticed the blood on the towel

 

[CW]

WARNING!! There is to be no bashing of the vicitm nor the victims family members. Thank you .. Continue on ..

 

[Tom'sGirl]

WARNING!! There is to be no bashing of the vicitm nor the victims family members. Thank you .. Continue on ..

Okay guys, back on topic. I had asked a couple of questions way back that no one answered, and I asked did they match the blood from the cabin to that found on the awning? I know they cleaned up, but there had to be some residue in the cabin.

Also, I had asked IF a DNA sample had not been given by the parents couldn't they get his DNA from his personal items?

Anyone have the answers for me, and no.............let's not discuss New Orleans again

 

[lisafremont]

I heard, I think it was Jane Velez Mitchell sitting in for NG last night, someone say that it hadn't been made public whether the blood found on the awning matched George.

That's not to say the test isn't done and results received, just not released.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

I heard, I think it was Jane Velez Mitchell sitting in for NG last night, someone say that it hadn't been made public whether the blood found on the awning matched George.

That's not to say the test isn't done and results received, just not released.

Thanks so much for the reply lisa, it was appreciated.

 

[lilpony]

We are not getting much information at all on this case. I wish more info would be released. This case is so very sad, but very interesting! I wonder why no news is being released? So will sit here and wait and hope we will get some good news soon.

 

[Bobbisangel]

It is my understanding that they have questioned the 3 guys that were said to have been in George's cabin. According to the youngest..not German...who has retained an attorney...they went with George to his cabin to look for Jennifer...looked around the ship with him for Jennifer...back to his cabin...the guy used the bathroom and then the 3 guys left and went to their own cabins. End of his story.

Now some are trying to say that maybe George committed suicide because he couldn't find Jennifer...in his drunken state...so he jumped ship...sure he did!!!!

They also say that there was some blood on the bed and blood on a towel in the cabin like someone had gotten hurt on the arm and wrapped the towel around the arm. That is where all the blood came from...sure it was!! A person who saw the blood on the awning said it was about the size of a small to med size dog.

We still have the people in cabins around George's cabin that heard arguing, what sounded like furniture being moved around in the cabin and on the deck...male voices, a woman's voice and a woman's scream at 4 a.m. One person did look out of his door and see people standing in the hall talking and it looked like they were leaving. Wonder if George was out there too at that time.

So many questions about this case. I think George's parents did give DNA.
They could at least release the info about the blood...did it belong to George.
I'm sure it does because George is the missing person. What about that hand print on the side of the boat. Was it on the side of a life boat or on the ship?
To me, that hand print says that whoever it belongs to was trying to stop themself from going overboard. Horrible thought.

 

[Olivia77]

It is my understanding that they have questioned the 3 guys that were said to have been in George's cabin. According to the youngest..not German...who has retained an attorney...they went with George to his cabin to look for Jennifer...looked around the ship with him for Jennifer...back to his cabin...the guy used the bathroom and then the 3 guys left and went to their own cabins. End of his story.

Does anyone else think it's odd that this guy retained an attorney?