GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #3

[CMac2]

Yes, but how many times have you reached out to your friendly tour guide and asked where you should go, when you'd already planned where you were going (which was back to the same place to take pictures)? If you planned to go back to the same place, then you just go back to the same place. You don't reach out to someone and go, "Hmmm... what do you think I should do today?" You just go!

 

[ToutCa]

Because this doesn't have the feel of a woman who simply slept around abroad. It doesn't seem like she went to Turkey to take pics and happened upon a man who coincidentally charmed her right out of her pants, the end, case closed.

I'm not saying it couldn't be random, but given how rare random acts of murder are in Turkey, coupled with the sex/marriage/did she talk to her hubby regularly/didn't she/cryptic online postings about cheating/claiming to total strangers that she's unmarried... I'd say a random crime would truly be a helluva coincidence. Not impossible, but improbable.

At this point, can't we safely say that whatever happened to SS was quite rare?

If it's true that Taylan did not have the DNA of the killer, that game's up.

It had to be someone else. She would have had to have a meeting with someone else at the walls. That's not impossible, but it's a strain to fit with the apparent evidence (I've tried).

There's no way you can say it's definite she had a meeting anywhere other than Galata Bridge with anyone other than Taylan!

 

[CMac2]

At this point, can't we safely say that whatever happened to SS was quite rare?

If it's true that Taylan did not have the DNA of the killer, that game's up.

It had to be someone else. She would have had to have a meeting with someone else at the walls. That's not impossible, but it's a strain to fit with the apparent evidence (I've tried).

There's no way you can say it's definite she had a meeting anywhere other than Galata Bridge with anyone other than Taylan!

No, we can't just say that what happened to SS was rare. The rare part is that it happened in a foreign country. Had she gone missing in NYC and all this (bathroom sex/married woman/telling people she's single/went to a bar the night before/sleeping on random man's couch/little to no contact with her husband for days on end) had occurred, a random act of violence is one of the last scenarios we'd have been considering. Not that we wouldn't have considered it at all, but it would not have been at the top of anyone's list of most probable outcomes.

 

[zarra30]

If you're trying to quote another poster's statements, just hit the "Quote" button under their post.

If you're trying to quote from an article or other source on line, start a post, and click the yellow box that looks like it's a cartoon bubble. it's to the left of the '#' sign, to the right of the picture box.

Thank you, Cmac! (Love your humourous responses on the board, by the way)

Very helpful. Maybe the mistake I've been making is trying to respond to only a part of their statements. I guess you can't edit, you have to quote the whole thing.
And I will look for the yellow box if I need to quote from an article. Thank you!

 

[CMac2]

Thank you, Cmac! (Love your humourous responses on the board, by the way)

Very helpful. Maybe the mistake I've been making is trying to respond to only a part of their statements. I guess you can't edit, you have to quote the whole thing.
And I will look for the yellow box if I need to quote from an article. Thank you!

You can edit and quote partial things- you just have to highlight and delete the parts you don't want to include. Make sure the formatting remains the same and the

verbiage remains in tact. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Yashim]

I agree that homeless people do not make a place unsafe. That's why I put unsafe in quotation marks.

So sorry, I hadn't noticed the quotation marks. You were just wondering what would happen to them.

Amazing how a pair of quotation marks can make so much difference - turning what would otherwise be a prejudiced statement into a humanistic one.

Frankly, I believe shelter is the least of their worries. Food, medication and protection is much more important unless weather gets really really cold.

 

[ToutCa]

Don't agree at all that this remote area had thousands of pedestrians within that time window.

From what we know, there WERE INDEED thousands of people passing by the cameras. They were in high-volume areas (for obvious reasons). They were not pointed at the walls a few hundred meters off the beaten path. That's precisely why it's so hard. LE is looking at the ones they have, but it's going to be much harder than you imply to pick a suspect out. And then what? Hey this guy in an overcoat we saw for 0.8 sec walking by looks kind of suspect? And then what?

It's really not as easy as you are implying for them to find something useful. But of course, they will be trying.

A car entering or leaving the area will have a rate of speed and you can ascertain if it either slowed or stopped in the time window entering/leaving the area.

It's just not going to be that easy. The camera may not be pointed at the road, it may pick up nothing more than a blur and a color, the drivers may slow down for other reasons that have nothing to do with the crime. And even if you locate a suspect image, it may be too vague to ever track down who it was.

They will try, and they are trying all these techniques, but I do not share your confidence the killer will be found with them.

I did not mean calls, I meant picking up a cell signal.

We all know about the pinging, and they've stated they will look into that. It will take months, and the mass approach of investigating all area pinging was tried in a previous high-profile murder case in Turkey. It failed.

Believe me, I bet the analysts on this case are ferocious and will not stop till they have gone thru everything.

I do believe you and I commend them for it. They are throwing all the resources they can at the case, and we all hope something pans out. I'm just saying the fateful lead may come from tech, it may come from something else. Or the tech may lead nowhere. That does happen too, despite the best efforts of the brilliant humans involved.

 

[ToutCa]

No, we can't just say that what happened to SS was rare. The rare part is that it happened in a foreign country. Had she gone missing in NYC and all this (bathroom sex/married woman/telling people she's single/went to a bar the night before/sleeping on random man's couch/little to no contact with her husband for days on end) had occurred, a random act of violence is one of the last scenarios we'd have been considering. Not that we wouldn't have considered it at all, but it would not have been at the top of anyone's list of most probable outcomes.

If the DNA eliminates Taylan, what's your theory?

 

[CMac2]

If the DNA eliminates Taylan, what's your theory?

Clearly if the DNA eliminates Taylan, I believe someone else murdered her. I don't believe it was random, and there have been reports of her being seen with at least one other male she met on IG. There have also been reports of her being seen TWICE in the company of the carpet guy. Clearly she did not live in a void where the only humans she came into contact with were Taylan or homeless druggies.

I do not believe this was random.

 

[yannis]

i guess the press reads this forum they write about what we talked earlier

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Twitter-bemoaning-cheating.html#axzz2KWRwTQRT

 

[Yashim]

Because this doesn't have the feel of a woman who simply slept around abroad. It doesn't seem like she went to Turkey to take pics and happened upon a man who coincidentally charmed her right out of her pants, the end, case closed.

It happens CMac2, it sometimes just happens.

Which reminds me of the theme from Robert Altman's "The Long Goodbye":

There's a long goodbye and it happens everyday
When some passerby invites your eye to come his way
......
If the heart is quicker than the eye
They could be lovers until they die
.......

 

[Elley Mae]

MY own musings, nothing factual here folks, just random thoughts in my head....

1. Someone earlier referred to SS as an "urban savvy tourist".
How could she be that already when according to what we have been told, this was her first trip abroad? ALL of her trip details that have been shared so far DO point to an urban savvy tourist - traveling alone, staying by herself in a basement apartment in a gritty neighborhood, arranging a side-trip to Amsterdam during the visit, striding confidently through the streets of Istanbul. NOTHING about her actions as they have been described show the usual tentativeness and uncertainty that I would expect of a neophyte solo-traveler, even one with a strong personality. Did she have a translation app on one of her devices? The language barrier alone adds an air of vulnerability that from what I can tell, she outwardly displayed not a trace of hesitiancy. I read about the "New York face", and I DO understand that, but she was not in NY. It seems to me too soon for her to have adopted an "Instanbul face" if this was her very first time in ANY foreign city.

2. I wonder if any of the 20 cameras show her stopping and checking her devices for texts or messages? Wasn't she waiting to hear from T about their planned meet-up? I would expect the cameras she was seen on would have seen her checking and rechecking a device to see if he was coming. Do the cameras show when she realizes/learns he is not?

3. The most-often used picture of SS is beautiful -the one of her in a leather jacket with a cap covering her hair and her eyes cast upward. When I first saw it the day her disappearance hit the news, I assumed she was someone who had made a name for herself as an author since it looked like a professional shot for a book cover. The details of her life as they were revealed seem much more humble, yet just as meaningful as a wife, mother, wage-earner and student. I find myself wondering in what context that picture was taken and by whom, because it IS so much more striking that typical photos a family might have around to use for publicizing a disappearance. It probably has no bearing on the circumstances of her tragic death, and I am just wondering as I fill in the picture in my own mind.

4. Re: the hit man from US theory - anything is possible, and I would think it more possible to be a Turkish hit-man hired by someone from the US. Who in her US life even has any connections in Turkey, and would that person want to harm her????

These are all questions and speculations and not FACTS.
Thanks for indulging me as I try to make sense of this tragedy.

bbm, Thanks! It's not just me:great:

I too wondered why show a picture of her in a hat? People can look so different with their hair pulled back much less tucked up under a hat. Then I thought well maybe she did that to be respectful in a country with a high muslim population and knowing that she disappeared there that the hat pic was best. idk jmo

 

[ToutCa]

Clearly if the DNA eliminates Taylan, I believe someone else murdered her. I don't believe it was random, and there have been reports of her being seen with at least one other male she met on IG. There have also been reports of her being seen TWICE in the company of the carpet guy. Clearly she did not live in a void where the only humans she came into contact with were Taylan or homeless druggies.

I do not believe this was random.

Thank you for clarifying, I get it now. Hope we can still be buds.

I think part of the tension between you and me is that I formerly waved the Taylan banner firmly and furiously at your side. Now I've abandoned you, and gone over closer to Yashim's side... if the DNA really does clear Taylan, I'm 60% random, 40% someone she knew. JMO, and your opinion is as good or better than mine.

 

[CocoChanel]

Everybody take a deep cleansing breath.
It is OK for each of us to have opinions.
It is OK for the opinions to be widely diverse.
It is OK to ask genuine respectful questions of others opinions.
It is OK to debate the answers in a respectful way.

It is not OK to lash out at each other personally, even if we feel disrespected.
Instead, we can alert a Mod to the post that feels disrespectful and allow them to decide.

Tiptoeing away, hopeful that our productive and thought-provoking discussion can continue in the spirit that is uniquely Websleuth's own.

ETA - and it appears we are doing just that! Well done and Thanks!

 

[CMac2]

It happens CMac2, it sometimes just happens.

Which reminds me of the theme from Robert Altman's "The Long Goodbye":

There's a long goodbye and it happens everyday
When some passerby invites your eye to come his way
......
If the heart is quicker than the eye
They could be lovers until they die
.......

It definitely happens- problem is, I think by the time SS boarded the plane to Turkey, she'd already been charmed by someone. THAT'S the guy she took her pants off for. Not some random charmer, IMO.

 

[looking4answers]

From what we know, there WERE INDEED thousands of people passing by the cameras. They were in high-volume areas (for obvious reasons). They were not pointed at the walls a few hundred meters off the beaten path. That's precisely why it's so hard. LE is looking at the ones they have, but it's going to be much harder than you imply to pick a suspect out. And then what? Hey this guy in an overcoat we saw for 0.8 sec walking by looks kind of suspect? And then what?

It's really not as easy as you are implying for them to find something useful. But of course, they will be trying.



It's just not going to be that easy. The camera may not be pointed at the road, it may pick up nothing more than a blur and a color, the drivers may slow down for other reasons that have nothing to do with the crime. And even if you locate a suspect image, it may be too vague to ever track down who it was.

They will try, and they are trying all these techniques, but I do not share your confidence the killer will be found with them.



We all know about the pinging, and they've stated they will look into that. It will take months, and the mass approach of investigating all area pinging was tried in a previous high-profile murder case in Turkey. It failed.



I do believe you and I commend them for it. They are throwing all the resources they can at the case, and we all hope something pans out. I'm just saying the fateful lead may come from tech, it may come from something else. Or the tech may lead nowhere. That does happen too, despite the best efforts of the brilliant humans involved.

As I have no access to where the cameras are pointed, and the absolute particulars of the normal trafiic in these areas, I will conceed that. I do not have enough information, or access. I would love to be there helping. I could help a lot. I am actually a tech consultant and if given the proper clearances I could aid much.

You just gave me an idea though on the camera and cell tower data. Feel like I should now go spend some time doing a lil BI and benchmarking on existing companies and tech in this space. Gracias

 

[CMac2]

Thank you for clarifying, I get it now. Hope we can still be buds.

I think part of the tension between you and me is that I formerly waved the Taylan banner firmly and furiously at your side. Now I've abandoned you, and gone over closer to Yashim's side... if the DNA really does clear Taylan, I'm 60% random, 40% someone she knew. JMO, and your opinion is as good or better than mine.

Clearly I'm suffering abandonment issues. That's no excuse for my bad behavior. So for that I truly apologize.

 

[nursebeeme]

Folks, I hear it is getting snarky and personal in here and that is a :nono: Carry on and address the post and not the postER :nurse:

 

[ToutCa]

As I have no access to where the cameras are pointed, and the absolute particulars of the normal trafiic in these areas, I will conceed that. I do not have enough information, or access. I would love to be there helping. I could help a lot. I am actually a tech consultant and if given the proper clearances I could aid much.

You just gave me an idea though on the camera and cell tower data. Feel like I should now go spend some time doing a lil BI and benchmarking on existing companies and tech in this space. Gracias

If you can find a way to help, Godspeed my friend. That would be amazing, and worth much more than all my quibbling and all our wild theorizing!

Promise to let us know what you find in your research (if possible).

Good luck, and if you contribute something, remember us in a footnote!

 

[ToutCa]

Clearly I'm suffering abandonment issues. That's no excuse for my bad behavior. So for that I truly apologize.

No need to. I'm sorry for getting off on my high horse. I didn't complain to anyone, either - no need to. We cool.

I'm a furious and obnoxious debater. It's one of the scars of growing up with a parent who is a lawyer. I need to keep reminding myself to tone that down when among friends. Friends, CMac2?