GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[SANDOVAL]

Just supposing only....if one were to be suddenly horrified to find a train coming, possibly slipped as well, what do people in movies do?...they lie down between the tracks and wait for train to pass over, but the bottom of the train might have protruding pieces of hardware that cause fatal injuries.

Or maybe not at that point fatal....just stunned and bruised.

 

[alpmighty]

You sound so sure of yourself but I'm not buying it...anything is possible. Any systems and policies produced, managed and run by humans can be tampered with and altered.

Fundamentally what you say is true. However you fail, in my opinion, to consider the factor of scale.

At this scale, various dynamics absolutely guarantee that any such tampering will not stay uncovered, unknown and undiscovered.

 

[alpmighty]

Okay. So LE leaked this - but who says this guy is guilty?

Can we assume that LE (as quoted by the press) leaked the sex in the bathroom info too? I remember reading this was explicitly said LE leaked that info. So was that a lie or truth? Every media outlet went on with that story - then it was changed to just coffee - by a lawyer - never LE. Either the media or LE is leaking untrue or true info. Whichever it is, who knows. Sometimes a tactic is to release information about high profile cases at different time intervals - true or not - as to confuse media, public, and general interest to create apathy about the case in general - and then - poof! Away it goes...into something unsolved. I see this case going that way.

So far nobody says he is guilty. But he is highly suspectible. Even if he is not the actual perp, he had a reason to disappear, run away. He knows something. Perhaps we'll learn that he did not kill her, but discovered her earlier and took her belongings. Who knows?

Information that'll came out after Z's apprehension and interrogation will be vital. Him being seen covered in mud and dirt at the estimated time of murder in the area, him explaining to his acquintances that mud and dirt was on his clothes because "he fell from the walls", his subsequent disappearence cannot be coincidences. He might or might not be the perp, but he knows or did something.

Otherwise, why would he run?

 

[necco]

Just supposing only....if one were to be suddenly horrified to find a train coming, possibly slipped as well, what do people in movies do?...they lie down between the tracks and wait for train to pass over, but the bottom of the train might have protruding pieces of hardware that cause fatal injuries.

If she was struck while lying between the rails, her body would almost certainly remain very proximal to the tracks. Also, people lie down between the rails in subways and on bridges where there is no other option. If she had enough time to lie down, she had enough time to jump 4 feet in one direction or the other.

I can definitely see how her injuries could make you think train, but the rest of the situation rules it out in my opinion.

 

[Rolandred]

Or maybe not at that point fatal....just stunned and bruised.

Aww - that would be terrible. So then, someone found her, moved her behind the walls and took her belongings, but did not call for help? I don't know. That's just....Think about it.

 

[Herat]

Or maybe not at that point fatal....just stunned and bruised.

There's enough oil and grime on the bottom of a train that traces would be expected to be on the skin or clothing at the point of impact.

As we don't have access to the autopsy report (which is a good thing, after all) we have to rely on those brief comments released very soon after she was discovered. We don't have any idea about the extent or condition of her injuries and are really just spinning and conjecturing here.

I keep thinking about her climbing around the train line or the broken walls in those boots with the wedge heels. Not very stable on irregular, rough surface like the broken rock of a train track bed, or for an irregular, crumbly wall. You could see how difficult it was for the CSI people to climb up in their yellow boots. I wouldn't want to try it in her boots. Seems like a recipe for a fall.

Just sayin':moo::rollercoaster:

 

[Rolandred]

So far nobody says he is guilty. But he is highly suspectible. Even if he is not the actual perp, he had a reason to disappear, run away. He knows something. Perhaps we'll learn that he did not kill her, but discovered her earlier and took her belongings. Who knows?

Information that'll came out after Z's apprehension and interrogation will be vital. Him being seen covered in mud and dirt at the estimated time of murder in the area, him explaining to his acquintances that mud and dirt was on his clothes because "he fell from the walls", his subsequent disappearence cannot be coincidences. He might or might not be the perp, but he knows or did something.

Otherwise, why would he run?

Yes, I agree, I hope this will be solved and the correct person brought to justice. What tomorrow's news or the next day will bring into print we are all waiting for...

 

[SANDOVAL]

Aww - that would be terrible. So then, someone found her, moved her behind the walls and took her belongings, but did not call for help? I don't know. That's just....Think about it.

I did hope maybe someone tried to help her by putting her in the cave with a blanket (good samaritan).
I know....it haunts me too....and whatever happens, this poor woman is not coming back......and her husband , i dunno how he can even get up in the morning and face another day of such horrible sadness.

 

[Rolandred]

A lawyer, of course not.

I'm just a regular utility-maximizing criminal.

Media?

 

[Marilynilpa]

interesting observation with the broken fingers. theories?

Perhaps her fingers were twisted in an effort to take her phone or Ipad, resulting in broken fingers?

 

[CMac2]

So far nobody says he is guilty. But he is highly suspectible. Even if he is not the actual perp, he had a reason to disappear, run away. He knows something. Perhaps we'll learn that he did not kill her, but discovered her earlier and took her belongings. Who knows?

Otherwise, why would he run?

With all due respect, his running means nothing to me. He certainly wouldn't be the first innocent human (if he is, in fact, innocent) who ran away from a crime scene in a state of panic. An American woman has been murdered. Of course he would fear he'd be blamed for it. Due to culture biases, society at large- and I'm sure even many in LE- would rather be able to pin this on some homeless guy than someone who may be more affluent, more "successful". People don't like having to confront the monsters among us- who look, live, work and speak like us- but are capable of unspeakable acts. It's much easier to let our prejudices take over, and accuse the person we least relate to, the person who is (in our own minds) least like us.

I'm not saying he's innocent- but his running away (if he even was at that crime scene) far from proves it.

 

[Herat]

Perhaps her fingers were twisted in an effort to take her phone or Ipad, resulting in broken fingers?

Someone else upstream pointed out that any street-savy New York girl knows never to fight a robber over a replaceable item. If they want it, let it go.

 

[ThinkHard]

I have believe the three broken fingers are the middle fingers on the right hand. In the photos we have seen, this the hand that usually holds her camera while the left index finger presses the shutter button.

The pattern implies a defensive -hand up to ward off blow - posture. But the fingers being flexible usually don't absorb the impact enough to cause three bones to fracture. It also means implies the head blows are another swing, maybe several more. One could also break fingers by dropping something on them from above. The fractures imply a very heavy object or unusually heavy swing or blunt force.

I also temper the train trauma theory by the point that the trains are either just pulling into or have just left Serkeci Station and are not going at a full speed.

Ed to add: This also implies she is right-handed, in my opinion.

With all do respect but as someone who was a gymnasts for 15 years I can assure you fingers are not quite as difficult to break as you are making them out to be.

We do not even know the nature of her two broken fingers. They could be shattered or they could be spiral fractured, they could be partial breaks or complete breaks. We simply do not know, and without knowing which type of break they had, we really cannot asses how they could have been broken.

<Mod Snip>

 

[Herat]

<modsnip>

Yeah. I've twisted it around alot and I just can't get trauma from a train into this picture.

The only thing train-associated might be a substantial piece of timber lying around. If the vagrants didn't burn it for firewood, it might have been a weapon.

Some odd report I read mentioned a "plank without nails" used to cover the body. A stray railroad tie could fit that description, but again, not likely to be left lying around by scavengers.

 

[NewYork625]

Someone else upstream pointed out that any street-savy New York girl knows never to fight a robber over a replaceable item. If they want it, let it go.

That was me, and alpmighty subsequently made an excellent point that the original motive must have been rape, because if his intention was simply robbery, she would have known the safest thing to do would have been to let him have the ipad.

 

[Herat]

We do not even know the nature of her two broken fingers. They could be shattered or they could be spiral fractured, they could be partial breaks or complete breaks. We simply do not know, and without knowing which type of break they had, we really cannot asses how they could have been broken.

Well that's one of my points. We don't really have enough information about that.

We also don't have accurate information about the head trauma: Skull fracture(s)? Epidural hematoma? Number of wounds? Skin tears? etc etc etc.

We're all just spitballin' here.

 

[NewYork625]

Yeah. I've twisted it around alot and I just can't get trauma from a train into this picture.

The only thing train-associated might be a substantial piece of timber lying around. If the vagrants didn't burn it for firewood, it might have been a weapon.

Some odd report I read mentioned a "plank without nails" used to cover the body. A stray railroad tie could fit that description, but again, not likely to be left lying around by scavengers.

Maybe the plank was inside the "cave" and was previously used as a type of floor for a homeless person to keep them from direct contact with the damp earth. That is assuming it was more like a piece of plywood and much less like an actual railroad tie...

 

[SandyP]

That was me, and alpmighty subsequently made an excellent point that the original motive must have been rape, because if his intention was simply robbery, she would have known the safest thing to do would have been to let him have the ipad.

She may not have felt that the iPad or phone was replaceable if it had all her photos on it and she had not backed them up on the cloud or elsewhere.

That is always a great fear of mine when travelling. That memory dares with irreplaceable trip photos will be lost or stolen.

Remember despite this "photo trip of a lifetime" she really posted very few photos from Ist/Amst/Mun. She must have shot hundreds and hundreds.

 

[ThinkHard]

With all due respect, his running means nothing to me. He certainly wouldn't be the first innocent human (if he is, in fact, innocent) who ran away from a crime scene in a state of panic. An American woman has been murdered. Of course he would fear he'd be blamed for it. Due to culture biases, society at large- and I'm sure even many in LE- would rather be able to pin this on some homeless guy than someone who may be more affluent, more "successful". People don't like having to confront the monsters among us- who look, live, work and speak like us- but are capable of unspeakable acts. It's much easier to let our prejudices take over, and accuse the person we least relate to, the person who is (in our own minds) least like us.

I'm not saying he's innocent- but his running away (if he even was at that crime scene) far from proves it.

I'm with you. I don't by a lot of this recent media story for so many many reasons. It just doesn't make any sense to me. From where media received the info, to its accuracy, to this supposed perp himself.

We talked about not crucifying someone who might well be innocent. But when its an uneducated trash collector with a violent streak everyone seems ready to pounce and assume guilt.

Sorry until DNA proves his guilt I'm not biting.<Mod Snip>

 

[alpmighty]

Media?

More likely gov, international business, defense, finance or academic.