GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[writer411]

Personally, I fail to see what Taylan, Tarkan or whatever his name is has to do with this case in terms of sleuthing who killed Sarai. Even if he slept with her every night she was in Istanbul, he doesn't even come close to being a subject of interest. I cant even imagine US LE focusing on him in a stateside case with similar set of circumstances. On the day she disappeared, they agreed to meet, she didn't show, that doesnt make him the killer. Of significance is that LE have a video of Sarai last being seen very close to where she was found. Maybe the person following her is in a car or out of view, but I'm sure it's not the dufus she bagged the night before, IMHO. Certainly, if he wanted to do her in, he could have done it in the restroom, outside the bar or anywhere since it was night. Who ever did this to Sarai was rash, bold and daring, since she disappeared in broad daylight.

 

[Yellow]

:banghead:

Personally, I fail to see what Taylan, Tarkan or whatever his name is has to do with this case in terms of sleuthing who killed Sarai. Even if he slept with her every night she was in Istanbul, he doesn't even come close to being a subject of interest. I cant even imagine US LE focusing on him in a stateside case with similar set of circumstances. On the day she disappeared, they agreed to meet, she didn't show, that doesnt make him the killer. Of significance is that LE have a video of Sarai last being seen very close to where she was found. Maybe the person following her is in a car or out of view, but I'm sure it's not the dufus she bagged the night before, IMHO. Certainly, if he wanted to do her in, he could have done it in the restroom, outside the bar or anywhere since it was night. Who ever did this to Sarai was rash, bold and daring, since she disappeared in broad daylight.

Another poster posted a list earlier listing a strong circumstantial case against Taylan. But there is evidence, indeed perhaps exculpatory evidence, the other way too, as it appears the DNA does not match.

I still fail to see how Taylan could have been involved if the DNA does not match. LE has killer DNA and it is not his. Such evidence would be sufficient for him never to be charged.

 

[zarra30]

This is very close to my assessment. l honestly think she was stalked, possibly followed for several days by someone. Travelers know that being followed is a peril, but not much of a problem for those in pairs or groups. Unfortunately, to anyone who might have been watching, SS proved over and over again that she was alone. Someone thought they had proof she was available because she wasnt ever seen with any companion regularly.


Although I'm less inclined to believe the drug angle without proof, we all know mules exist. However, I think there's more evidence that SS was a loner with a keen interest in strangers (which ultimately led to her demise) than there is of her doing anything illegal.

Yes, I agree. But her IG makes it clear she was also keen on photography and we don't really even know how often she was alone. She may have had friends, or people she thought were nice around her, who accompanied her that we simply don't know about.

I know a lot of people who have traveled abroad and some found themselves in occasional circumstances that could have gone any sort of way through no fault of their own judgement, or because they were tired or lost or unsure or let their guard down.

Consider how many students study abroad every year. Bad things can happen, sometimes because we make one mistake. It can happen even in a different neighborhood in our own city.

I know someone who went down in an elevator to check for a message and got off on the wrong floor returning and someone began following her. Another missed a train when the doors shut too fast after her friend got in and she didn't speak the language and a nice guy offered assistance and she almost followed him too far.

I just hope we get the truth eventually and I expect the LE will figure it all out.... Otherwise, it will put so many people off from experiencing or allowing their children to experience the richness of other cultures.

Just my opinion.

 

[cluciano63]

Yeah, I am not looking at Taylan either. So what if she did not want to see him again or have sex again, or whatever? I am sure he would have survived. No one had indicated he has any kind of crazy violent history, as far as I know. It sounds like she just blew him off for some reason and decided not to meet up with him. I think she was attacked by a stranger, or at least, someone we do not about that she may have decided to meet up with.

 

[writer411]

:banghead:

Another poster posted a list earlier listing a strong circumstantial case against Taylan. But there is evidence, indeed perhaps exculpatory evidence, the other way too, as it appears the DNA does not match.

I still fail to see how Taylan could have been involved if the DNA does not match. LE has killer DNA and it is not his. Such evidence would be sufficient for him never to be charged.

I maintain that the victim's death resulted from a lone person stalking. Guilty by association just doesn't work for me in this case. If Sarai hadn't wanted to meet with said person on the day of her diappearance, she wouldn't have called, he wouldn't have responded and he'd be just another random IG person she might or might not have spoken to while on holiday. Anyway, I suspect it'll take years for the truth to surface. Probably will take locating her stolen belongings like the iPad somebody turned on after she disappeared.

 

[Yellow]

I maintain that the victim's death resulted from a lone person stalking. Guilty by association just doesn't work for me in this case. If Sarai hadn't wanted to meet with said person on the day of her diappearance, she wouldn't have called, he wouldn't have responded and he'd be just another random IG person she might or might not have spoken to while on holiday. Anyway, I suspect it'll take years for the truth to surface. Probably will take locating her stolen belongings like the iPad somebody turned on after she disappeared.

Do you think random stalker, scorned suitor stalker, drug related stalker, etc?

 

[writer411]

Yes, I agree. But her IG makes it clear she was also keen on photography and we don't really even know how often she was alone. She may have had friends, or people she thought were nice around her, who accompanied her that we simply don't know about.

I know a lot of people who have traveled abroad and some found themselves in occasional circumstances that could have gone any sort of way through no fault of their own judgement, or because they were tired or lost or unsure or let their guard down.

Consider how many students study abroad every year. Bad things can happen, sometimes because we make one mistake. It can happen even in a different neighborhood in our own city.

I know someone who went down in an elevator to check for a message and got off on the wrong floor returning and someone began following her. Another missed a train when the doors shut too fast after her friend got in and she didn't speak the language and a nice guy offered assistance and she almost followed him too far.

I just hope we get the truth eventually and I expect the LE will figure it all out.... Otherwise, it will put so many people off from experiencing or allowing their children to experience the richness of other cultures.

Just my opinion.

Oh gosh yes. I was followed while visiting North Africa two yrs ago. By a man in a pickup no less. That was scary as all get out and could have gone sideways if I hadn't reached my destination. One of the reasons I feel so strongly and so sad about this case.

 

[writer411]

Do you think random stalker, scorned suitor stalker, drug related stalker, etc?

I think random stalker but only in the sense that the person was not known to her. If i was profiling, I would guess that the person spotted her (a pretty woman clearly alone) either when she arrived in Istanbul initially or when she returned from Adam, although I tend to lean towards the latter, since the swiftness and violence of the attack indicates continuous building of momentum (LE has said they believe Sarai died on the day she disappeared). Just my nonexpert, HO

 

[necco]

Oh gosh yes. I was followed while visiting North Africa two yrs ago. By a man in a pickup no less. That was scary as all get out and could have gone sideways if I hadn't reached my destination. One of the reasons I feel so strongly and so sad about this case.

That is one of the reasons I feel so strongly as well. I was once ushered hastily into a shop in Central America by a shopkeeper. Come to find out, someone he knew had less than moral intentions was following me.

 

[Yellow]

I think random stalker but only in the sense that the person was not known to her. If i was profiling, I would guess that the person spotted her (a pretty woman clearly alone) either when she arrived in Istanbul initially or when she returned from Adam, although I tend to lean towards the latter, since the swiftness and violence of the attack indicates continuous building of momentum (LE has said they believe Sarai died on the day she disappeared). Just my nonexpert, HO

That is interesting and a theory that has not really been explored so much, the idea that someone could have seen her in airport or wherever and started stalking, perhaps even stalkimg for days. She might have been walking around that general area alot to eat, exercise, etc

Could it perhaps be a vender, store owner, fruit stand person, who maybe saw her walking around every day? That person is there everyday so he might notice someone "new." Maybe she even interacted w him, bought fruit or something from him. He noticed she spoke English, figures she was a foreigner...she could have even talked to him, telling him she was going home...

I think that is definitely a viable theory..he might have blended in scenery so that is why it did not look like he was following her

 

[zarra30]

Oh gosh yes. I was followed while visiting North Africa two yrs ago. By a man in a pickup no less. That was scary as all get out and could have gone sideways if I hadn't reached my destination. One of the reasons I feel so strongly and so sad about this case.

I also have traveled and found myself physically alone at times, going out for cafe or shopping, or wandering along wonderful mazes of streets, in several European countries. I've also started up conversations with people who looked nice and I was invited here or there for some really cool thing. And, like you, a wierdo also followed me once, but I stuck to crowded areas and 90% of the time I was aware of my surroundings, careful and watchful and safe. I was just lucky that nothing happened during that other 10%.

In terms of this case, I agree with you and others who suspect she was possibly stalked. But by who and for how long? That's the question.

If he seemed nice and was good looking or just a great con artist, she might have let her guard down. A lot of us smart savvy non-sex starved, non drug-mule, non wife-cheating girls or women who find ourselves alone in a foreign country and who have been blessed with great experiences since day one occasionally might think "Hey, this sounds like fun/interesting/great opportunity. Maybe, oh, I don't know, oh, what the hell, sure, I'll check it out."
95% of the time we're glad we did.

If she fought him off and he was shocked to anger, oh it's just too scary to think about.

JMO

 

[Yellow]

I also have traveled and found myself physically alone at times, going out for cafe or shopping, or wandering along wonderful mazes of streets, in several European countries. I've also started up conversations with people who looked nice and I was invited here or there for some really cool thing. And, like you, a wierdo also followed me once, but I stuck to crowded areas and 90% of the time I was aware of my surroundings, careful and watchful and safe. I was just lucky that nothing happened during that other 10%.

In terms of this case, I agree with you and others who suspect she was possibly stalked. But by who and for how long? That's the question.

If he seemed nice and was good looking or just a great con artist, she might have let her guard down. A lot of us smart savvy non-sex starved, non drug-mule, non wife-cheating girls or women who find ourselves alone in a foreign country and who have been blessed with great experiences since day one occasionally might think "Hey, this sounds like fun/interesting/great opportunity. Maybe, oh, I don't know, oh, what the hell, sure, I'll check it out."
95% of the time we're glad we did.

If she fought him off and he was shocked to anger, oh it's just too scary to think about.

JMO

Yeah, 99% of the time it would be ok, but maybe 1% it was not. You were in the 99, but Sarai was in the 1. We all let our guard down, no one can be perfect 24/7.

All too often to, I think maybe sometimes we might not be as assertive in saying no bc we do not want to appear rude, especially if someone has been nice to us. We brush it off thinking maybe we are overreacting. Most times we may be, but it only takes 1 time to be wrong

I recall a book The Gift of Fear. They talked about it on Oprah. I fortunately have never been in this situation but I wonder if it is really true that when faced w danger like this, your instincts tell you something is not right...or whether your instincts let you down...

 

[SophieRose]

It just doesn't seem that implausible to me. I'm not Turkish I know plenty of people who live in turkey. I'm not English, French, Australian but I also know lots of people who live in those places.

I'm not saying Steven knew someone directly but in a city like new York, I think it's highly likely that when news spread, someone he knew perhaps even friend of a friend of a friend knew people in turkey that offered to
Put them up.

Turkish people are very welcoming. This case hit national attention. New York has people
From all over, it wouldn't be too hard for him
To find a connection to Istanbul.

I'm sure his church has connections to other churches in the NY area, including Orthodox churches. At the airport in Istanbul, Steven and her brother and two men huddled together in prayer before Steven and her brother walked onto the plane. I'm assuming they may have been the persons with whom hubby and brother stayed.

 

[zarra30]

Yeah, 99% of the time it would be ok, but maybe 1% it was not. You were in the 99, but Sarai was in the 1. We all let our guard down, no one can be perfect 24/7.

All too often to, I think maybe sometimes we might not be as assertive in saying no bc we do not want to appear rude, especially if someone has been nice to us. We brush it off thinking maybe we are overreacting. Most times we may be, but it only takes 1 time to be wrong

I recall a book The Gift of Fear. They talked about it on Oprah. I fortunately have never been in this situation but I wonder if it is really true that when faced w danger like this, your instincts tell you something is not right...or whether your instincts let you down...

Thank you! I absolutely agree with everything you said!
So true about not wanting to appear rude. Especially if the guy was, as the earlier poster said, someone she had seen around the neighborhood, maybe a waiter, or an IGer, or someone she met the first time she visited and she just talked casually enough about her plans so that he knew how to bump into her.

My gut tells me her instinct did kick in, but it was a moment too late and maybe she did hesitate and not want to be rude. If that makes sense.

 

[Yellow]

:moo:

Thank you! I absolutely agree with everything you said!
So true about not wanting to appear rude. Especially if the guy was, as the earlier poster said, someone she had seen around the neighborhood, maybe a waiter, or an IGer, or someone she met the first time she visited and she just talked casually enough about her plans so that he knew how to bump into her.

My gut tells me her instinct did kick in, but it was a moment too late and maybe she did hesitate and not want to be rude. If that makes sense.

That is probably true,.. Probably a half second too late

Recall too she was alone in a foreign country. She may have been especially indebted to anyone who was kind to her, who showed her around, who was a friendly face. Especially if she missed home. If this person was kind to her, and she had no one else there, she might have went off to a more deserted place bc she did not want to burn bridges, or appear rude.

Perhaps it was only a casual acquaintance. A man in the store who she got coffee from, a man who held the door for her, a man who gave her directions, the fruit man she passed everday, etc.. We have all these people in our own lives...

He could have said," hey, I see you here everyday taking pictures. My wife takes pictures over there often, let me show you." He might have mentioned a wife or even children to disarm her, make her feel comfortable...disguise his intentions. Maybe he even talked of his kids, showed pictures, etc.

Then, once he got her alone, he grabbed her, wanting some action, she resisted and....

 

[monkey222]

Of the 5 people that LE are looking into more closely, is LE able to search their homes, cars at this point in investigation? Meeting up with another inet aquaintences on the 21rst, albeit an IGer or someone she may have contacted for boarding info/ prices (prior to deciding on $17 one) seems a plausible theory since it was her last day before flight. For me, I always check out hotels, accomodations in person, ones I may have emailed,etc., to broaden my options for next trip. SS may have reached out to any contact on last day because her trip was over, looking ahead for next travels. Can these web contacts ve searched?

 

[ToutCa]

I wish there was a way we could post at the top of each page the info already known in this case -- it would stop us from running in circles every day and allow us instead to expend sleuthing energies on new speculation!

On Taylan K:
-- You guys finally worked out what has already been long established (in MSM and on multiple threads here), Taylan K is the guy who met SS on Instagram @4 months before she arrived, met SS in person twice in Istanbul, and was supposed to meet her at the time she disappeared. Turkish press reports said Taylan K told them he had bar bathroom sex with SS Jan. 20, the night before she vanished, and his lawyer equivocated when asked about that statement.

-- Also long established: Tarkan A is not the same guy. He made one comment on an IG photo of SS. He says he never talked to her further or met her, but that one comment cost him a 2.5-hour interview with Turkish LE to eliminate him from consideration.

Taylan K and DNA:
After Turkish press reports suggested authorities had on-scene DNA from the murderer, Turkish press claimed Taylan K had stated to them the Jan. 20 bar bathroom sex with SS claim. It is not clear he stated this after the 'on-scene DNA' story came out. The Turkish press have been sensationalistic and unreliable throughout this story. It is possible (if unlikely) he never stated the bar bathroom sex story; it is also possible (and fairly likely) he acknowledged bar bathroom sex from his first interview with Turkish LE, but they kept it to themselves for investigative purposes or to protect the privacy of all involved.

Finally, later, a separate story in the sensationalistic Turkish press claimed early DNA test results did not match for Taylan K or any of the first round of 22 potential suspects. Turkish LE never confirmed this report. If it's true, Taylan K is not the killer. But the Turkish press has mis-reported much in this story. So it could be false. All Turkish LE have said officially is Taylan K "is not a suspect" -- LE-speak which could mean anything.

Taylan K is not gay:
It's hard to believe there is any chance of this.

Where does Taylan K live?:
In early threads, some posters said he lives in the Sirkeci area (right by where SS disappeared, and where the body was found). I never saw a link for this. Can anyone provide one?
(Of more significance perhaps was that SS's family, Amsterdam Ammer, Turkish LE and Taylan K himself all acknowledge he was scheduled to meet her in person at or near the Galata Bridge at the day and time she went missing).

 

[Yashim]

I told you. Didn't I? It was a random attack. (Own remarks in parentheses)


UPDATE FROM ISTANBUL


Istanbul Police is closing in on the perp.


LE said the main suspect is a garbage man. (Garbage men, as the name suggests, collect paper, bottles and cans out of garbage bins in order to sell to the recycling plants.)

(They are usually OK people. But some of them can be really dangerous.)

LE said his name was Z. (And a male of course.)

LE is still looking for him.

(I am thinking a Zaylan or maybe a Zarkan.)

They believe Z. first mugged Sarai and then attempted to rape. And ended up killing her in the attack.

They believe that killing took place in a nearby location and he then dumped the body in the cave.

He is 46 years old.

On the day SS went missing, he was seen covered in soil and mud. He told he had fallen off the city walls.

http://haber.gazetevatan.com/Haber/514180/1/Gundem

Just a side note: They took DNA samples from a total of 53 people. 23 are homeless and druggies.

--------------------

Maybe more details in other papers. But I gotta head back to the precinct.

 

[ToutCa]

If true, virtually everyone on all the threads was wrong in their theories.

Let that be a lesson to all of us not to get over-confident in our brains.

Let's hope that he's the guy, that they have slam-dunk physical evidence, and that we can get justice for SS and her loved ones.

YASHIM OR ANYONE LOCAL, IS "Z" IN CUSTODY?

 

[Yashim]

If true, virtually everyone on all the threads was wrong in their theories.

Let that be a lesson to all of us not to get over-confident in our brains.

Let's hope that he's the guy, that they have slam-dunk physical evidence, and that we can get justice for SS and her loved ones.

YASHIM OR ANYONE LOCAL, IS "Z" IN CUSTODY?

No, he is not in custody. They are looking for him.

But I believe he might have headed back to his hometown, which may be in Eastern or Southeastern Turkey. But I'm sure they'll get him.

And hold on a sec. I wasn't wrong. I had the closest guess.