GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #4

[ThinkHard]

Don't buy that assumption

There's a big difference between being "dirty" disheveled, poor, and unwashed and being "covered in mud."

What stands out in the LE description was that he was [unusually] covered in mud.

I also don't think the people in Yashmin's video look covered in mud. They look a bit unwashed, wearing some dirty clothes, but not anything that would stand out.

For the reason of his appearance, Purported Perp Z stands out from the unwashed crowd.

It's not LE description it's medias description.....media also described SS hanging out with criminal elements too remember ....

It could very well be this guy. And if LE is looking for him, no doubt they will find him.

I just reserve judgement on his guilt until we know a bit more.

 

[CMac2]

Yes but how do we know what the press is leaking is accurate...at this point we don't.

And even if they really are looking for this guy....that still doesn't make him the perp.

Seems like we're in the minority, ThinkHard, but I'm definitely with you on this.

I'm curious as to how LE was yesterday saying they'd narrowed the suspects down to SS' internet contacts (and one homeless man who was only a suspect because he was at the scene when the body was found) and today have full name, age, etc of this other random trash guy whose name starts with a Z as suspect #1 instead. What gives?

Maybe Z is an internet contact of Sarai's. Maybe he's one of the 5 original men, who happens to be a trash collector by trade. That's the only way this is making any sense to me at all right about now.

 

[alpmighty]

Here's some operational and organizational insight of Turkish LE for sleuthers that aren't Turkish nationals:

Turkish LE is highly centralized. Every province is a seperate administrative organization, thus you can hear Istanbul Police, Izmir Police or Ankara Police. However, they are all centrally administered. Operationally, Turkish National Police falls under Ministry of Justice. Administratively and organizationally, they fall under Ministery of Interior. As provincal prosecutors and chiefs of police report to the province governor, which is appointed by the government and works for Ministery of Interior, you can say that MoI is running the show.

SS case is being handled by Istanbul Homicide Branch. Statements of individuals are handled mostly by them. However, it is possible that individuals' statements that are considered peripheral to the case are handled by Istanbul Public Order branch and passed onto Homicide Branch. Public Order branch are the Police you see patrolling streets, initially responding to incidents and mainly manning the precincts.

This Z is almost certainly from underdeveloped Eastern Provinces. He emigrated from his place of birth to Istanbul. Failing that, he must be born into such a family, which previously immigrated to Istanbul.

Eastern Provinces come into play, as Police intelligence and records for those who hail from there are more extensive than they are for from those who are from other regions. Reason for this is simple, there's been a Kurdish insurgency in the region revolving around Marxist terrorist organization PKK for the last 30 years. Easterners almost always face more scrutiny against possible ties to insurgency, their records are more extensively maintained.

This makes identifying Z even more easier. All Homicide had to do is to correspond with Intelligence Branch and Counterinsurgency Branch. Those branches can easily provide information for Turkish Nationals hailing from Eastern Provinces, even more so from what can be fetched from the central databases for any other national not from Eastern Provinces.

Lastly, I assume Homicide is corresponding with Foreigners Branch actively as well, as it is the Foreigners Branch which handles foreigners coming in and out of the country, administrating extended stay and permanent residencies, even manning the border points, checking arrival documentations. Besides, Foreigners Branch must have more English speaking personnel than other branches. I'm sure at least a liasion was appointed to Homicide from them to handle correspondence with US LE.

New generation of academy graduate Police Officers are highly educated though, more than the old school ones, knowledge of English is bound to be more common among them. But again, such Police Officers are junior or middle grade by now, so there's a good chance senior grade homicide people assigned to the case are supplemented by English speaking officers.

I wouldn't be surprised a lot if I learn that some of the assigned homicide guys are watching our correspondence and smiling after seeing theories discussed here.

 

[alpmighty]

Seems like we're in the minority, ThinkHard, but I'm definitely with you on this.

I'm curious as to how LE was yesterday saying they'd narrowed the suspects down to SS' internet contacts (and one homeless man who was only a suspect because he was at the scene when the body was found) and today have full name, age, etc of this other random trash guy whose name starts with a Z as suspect #1 instead. What gives?

Maybe Z is an internet contact of Sarai's. Maybe he's one of the 5 original men, who happens to be a trash collector by trade. That's the only way this is making any sense to me at all right about now.

A typical Turkish national scavenger / homeless person can't have an Internet presence. They are too poor and too concerned with survival. Besides, such a person wouldn't be able to speak English at all.

 

[delal]

Oooh an update.

I was followed by one of the garbage men once. But usually they are harmless. 42 seems a little old though, most of the guys I see doing it are teenagers or in their 20s. Sometimes you even see women doing it. From what I know, they seem to be organised to a certain extent, for example, one guy will collect cardboard, one plastic, etc.

They tend to go around residential neighbourbourhoods where there are large communal bins/trash cans/waste receptacles.

I wonder if he was "working" at the time and had his waste collection cart with him. If so, where did he leave it, as there was no way he was getting it up that hill.

According to a Turkish friend, a lot of people in Turkey have their blood group and fingerprints on record (any comments, alp, yashim?) so it shouldn't be too hard to find him.

 

[alpmighty]

Yes but how do we know what the press is leaking is accurate...at this point we don't.

And even if they really are looking for this guy....that still doesn't make him the perp.

Press cannot speculate with accuracy. Nobody can. They can't just pull an exact age, initial of the first name, background and others statements onto this guy out of nowhere.

Think about the previous speculation we've seen. They were always fueled by publicly accessible information as the individuals had high profiles on the Internet. So, press was able to speculate a lot by tracing them from publicly available means.

This is different. You can't just make up all those details. Reporters wouldn't be able to have information with this amount of accuracy through correspondence with other scavengers / homeless. Your typical reporter would be afraid actually, to even think of corresponding with those guys. LE must have leaked or released this for a purpose.

 

[CMac2]

A typical Turkish national scavenger / homeless person can't have an Internet presence. They are too poor and too concerned with survival. Besides, such a person wouldn't be able to speak English at all.

Unfortunately, I hadn't finished reading everything I'd missed from this morning before I commented. I was still under the impressing that a trash collector in Turkey equated to the same thing it means here. Your point is well taken! Thanks!

 

[CMac2]

Press cannot speculate with accuracy. Nobody can. They can't just pull an exact age, initial of the first name, background and others statements onto this guy out of nowhere.

Think about the previous speculation we've seen. They were always fueled by publicly accessible information as the individuals had high profiles on the Internet. So, press was able to speculate a lot by tracing them from publicly available means.

This is different. You can't just make up all those details. Reporters wouldn't be able to have information with this amount of accuracy through correspondence with other scavengers / homeless. Your typical reporter would be afraid actually, to even think of corresponding with those guys. LE must have leaked or released this for a purpose.

Whew. I'm just so surprised it looks like this case may indeed be a random attack. In some ways, that's a shame- at least from the perspective that SS' family didn't even need to know/hear/be aware of the other speculation regarding SS' behavior. If this Z guy did it, that means none of the other stuff ever even mattered, as none of it caused her death. It will be interesting to see how the pieces of this thing ultimately come together.

 

[Herat]

I wouldn't be surprised a lot if I learn that some of the assigned homicide guys are watching our correspondence here and smiling after seeing theories discussed here.

I hope they are and they are getting some gallows-humor relief in some of the silliness that has gone on.

This is an ugly, brutal crime and there are open, annonymous, unprofessional and hurtful "psychological autopsies" going on in public forums that are very much damaginng innocent people's lives forever more.

 

[alpmighty]

Oooh an update.

I was followed by one of the garbage men once. But usually they are harmless. 42 seems a little old though, most of the guys I see doing it are teenagers or in their 20s. Sometimes you even see women doing it. From what I know, they seem to be organised to a certain extent, for example, one guy will collect cardboard, one plastic, etc.

They tend to go around residential neighbourbourhoods where there are large communal bins/trash cans/waste receptacles.

I wonder if he was "working" at the time and had his waste collection cart with him. If so, where did he leave it, as there was no way he was getting it up that hill.

According to a Turkish friend, a lot of people in Turkey have their blood group and fingerprints on record (any comments, alp, yashim?) so it shouldn't be too hard to find him.

Bloodtype is recorded centrally for everbody, it's even written on ID and driver's license.

Fingerprints aren't centrally recorded by default. You must either have been detained, questioned about something that would make printing essential by LE to have them print you, or you must have had applied for a Passport, as snatching prints is a biometrics requirement for issuing Passports.

This guy, with the reported background might have had his prints fetched before due to coming under LE scrutiny. Remember, he's homeless and scavenging and probably originated from Eastern Provinces.

 

[delal]

While reading the forum I had another thought as to why Sarai may not have been raped, not sure you will want to hear it though.

 

[looking4answers]

No, he is not in custody. They are looking for him.

But I believe he might have headed back to his hometown, which may be in Eastern or Southeastern Turkey. But I'm sure they'll get him.

And hold on a sec. I wasn't wrong. I had the closest guess.

Hey! I also suggested maybe someone there ambushed her. I just never stated if it was a homeless or passerby. Then again I am not Yashim the great.

 

[NewYork625]

Oooh an update.

I was followed by one of the garbage men once. But usually they are harmless. 42 seems a little old though, most of the guys I see doing it are teenagers or in their 20s. Sometimes you even see women doing it. From what I know, they seem to be organised to a certain extent, for example, one guy will collect cardboard, one plastic, etc.

They tend to go around residential neighbourbourhoods where there are large communal bins/trash cans/waste receptacles.

I wonder if he was "working" at the time and had his waste collection cart with him. If so, where did he leave it, as there was no way he was getting it up that hill.

According to a Turkish friend, a lot of people in Turkey have their blood group and fingerprints on record (any comments, alp, yashim?) so it shouldn't be too hard to find him.

Since other waste collectors reported him, perhaps there was a witness at the scene? Do they travel together, or usually solo?

 

[Herat]

Bloodtype is recorded centrally for everbody, it's even written on ID and driver's license.

Bloodtype is only useful if SS and PPZ are of different type. Given the bloodgroup prevalence charts, Turkey and US prevalence rates aren't substantially different.

The overwhelming volume of blood found is going to be SS blood, given the described nature of her injuries.

DNA analysis just trumps it all.

ABO blood group system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NewYork625]

I think they are the same guy, too. The one on the left looks to have been done professionally and I think the nose was slimmed down. Even if it's not a professional photo, there is so much photo editing now, anyone can do it.

Same guy.

I agree with you Meri. A lot of posters here are feeling remorse for posting their theories/speculation implicating innocent people, and the effect it may have on SS's children. Hence, Herat's reply.

 

[stmarysmead]

Turkish police are looking for a 46-year-old street paper collector in their investigation of the murder of the New York mother who was bludgeoned to death during a solo trip to Istanbul, it was revealed today.
A number of homeless people who were in the rundown area where Sarai Sierra's body was found told police the collector - who they are referring to as 'Z' was hanging around the city's ancient walls on the day the Staten Island mother went missing on January 21.
Police were alerted to her disappearance when she failed to get her flight home the next day. her body was found on February 2 with extensive trauma to her head, torso and face.
Eyewitnesses told Turkish police - who have so far taken 53 samples of DNA from different people - 'Z' was covered in mud and dirt on January 21 and when they asked him why he was particularly dirty he said: 'I fell off the walls'.
Investigators think he may have tried to accost Sarai and when she resisted, he may have killed her in the ensuing struggle.
According to Turkish paper Haberturk, 'Z' has not been seen since that day and investigators are trying to locate him.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html#ixzz2KoCsNUM0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Is there more detail in the Turkish papers? Because all this really says is that the homeless people were suspicious of him because he was dirty and they have not seen him since.

He may really just have fallen down. There is no DNA match, nothing stronger than suspicions by these homeless people. It does not seem he was covered in blood or had bleeding hands from beating SS.

What police "think"...is not proof. A lot of innocent people, including Sarai herself, have been smeared by what police or media "think" but that is not PROOF.

The fact that media have his name...does not add to any real evidence against him. He was in the area, but no one is REPORTED to have seen anything more than his "dirtiness." People DO fall sometimes. Homeless People have no ties to any one area. The police are looking to speak to him. Unless there is more in the Turkish papers, this man is just another lead. Nothing more or less.

 

[NewYork625]

Turkish police are looking for a 46-year-old street paper collector in their investigation of the murder of the New York mother who was bludgeoned to death during a solo trip to Istanbul, it was revealed today.
A number of homeless people who were in the rundown area where Sarai Sierra's body was found told police the collector - who they are referring to as 'Z' was hanging around the city's ancient walls on the day the Staten Island mother went missing on January 21.
Police were alerted to her disappearance when she failed to get her flight home the next day. her body was found on February 2 with extensive trauma to her head, torso and face.
Eyewitnesses told Turkish police - who have so far taken 53 samples of DNA from different people - 'Z' was covered in mud and dirt on January 21 and when they asked him why he was particularly dirty he said: 'I fell off the walls'.
Investigators think he may have tried to accost Sarai and when she resisted, he may have killed her in the ensuing struggle.
According to Turkish paper Haberturk, 'Z' has not been seen since that day and investigators are trying to locate him.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html#ixzz2KoCsNUM0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Is there more detail in the Turkish papers? Because all this really says is that the homeless people were suspicious of him because he was dirty and they have not seen him since.

He may really just have fallen down. There is no DNA match, nothing stronger than suspicions by these homeless people. It does not seem he was covered in blood or had bleeding hands from beating SS.


The fact that media have his name...does not add to any real evidence against him. He was in the area, but no one is REPORTED to have seen anything more than his "dirtiness." People DO fall sometimes. Homeless People have no ties to any one area. The police are looking to speak to him. Unless there is more in the Turkish papers, this man is just another lead. Nothing more or less.

True. He may have been tipped off that he was being reported, and fled for fear of being unjustly accused.

 

[alpmighty]

Turkish police are looking for a 46-year-old street paper collector in their investigation of the murder of the New York mother who was bludgeoned to death during a solo trip to Istanbul, it was revealed today.
A number of homeless people who were in the rundown area where Sarai Sierra's body was found told police the collector - who they are referring to as 'Z' was hanging around the city's ancient walls on the day the Staten Island mother went missing on January 21.
Police were alerted to her disappearance when she failed to get her flight home the next day. her body was found on February 2 with extensive trauma to her head, torso and face.
Eyewitnesses told Turkish police - who have so far taken 53 samples of DNA from different people - 'Z' was covered in mud and dirt on January 21 and when they asked him why he was particularly dirty he said: 'I fell off the walls'.
Investigators think he may have tried to accost Sarai and when she resisted, he may have killed her in the ensuing struggle.
According to Turkish paper Haberturk, 'Z' has not been seen since that day and investigators are trying to locate him.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rk-mother-solo-trip-Turkey.html#ixzz2KoCsNUM0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Is there more detail in the Turkish papers? Because all this really says is that the homeless people were suspicious of him because he was dirty and they have not seen him since.

He may really just have fallen down. There is no DNA match, nothing stronger than suspicions by these homeless people. It does not seem he was covered in blood or had bleeding hands from beating SS.

What police "think"...is not proof. A lot of innocent people, including Sarai herself, have been smeared by what police or media "think" but that is not PROOF.

The fact that media have his name...does not add to any real evidence against him. He was in the area, but no one is REPORTED to have seen anything more than his "dirtiness." People DO fall sometimes. Homeless People have no ties to any one area. The police are looking to speak to him. Unless there is more in the Turkish papers, this man is just another lead. Nothing more or less.

Even he doesn't turn out to be the perp, he will most likely offer valuable knowledge. His sightings in questionable, extraordinary appearence, his disappearence after the incident are too good be coincidence.

Maybe he found the body and took some valuables, who knows?

But the leakage of this accurate information to press by LE shows me a certain amount of confidence on their part, and remember, we have by their admittance only around 5% of the information and leads LE has.

 

[Herat]

Homeless People have no ties to any one area.

Disagree with this statement.

Homeless people do end up with "territories" in certain zones with other homeless folks. They may cluster together in parks or unsupervised areas with cover, deserted buildings. They may have zones where certain garbage cans are theirs, or parts within a zone is where they scavenge. It's all very territorial, like animals in the wild (which we all are). They know who is new or alien to their community. They know when something different is happening. At least the ones that learn how to live homeless the best.

And, the Purported Perp Z is not described in the article as homeless so much as he is a collector of trash. He may have a hovel he calls home.

 

[Meri]

He was found to have commented on one of SS pictures before on IG, wishing her good luck. So, LE questioned him. He says they never met face to face and tells that just because of a single comment, he feels he has gotten into trouble.

He is not Taylan K. They're different individuals.

I am so confused.