GUILTY Turkey - Sarai Sierra, 33, NY woman murdered, Istanbul, 21 Jan 2013 - #5

[bet2173]

Sarai Sierra murdered with a brick, report says



BBM

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/sa...-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41576&NewsCatID=341

We discussed it could be the gold, or the electronics BUT THE LEATHER JACKET??? Come on!

 

[bet2173]

According to some of the papers here, it's been decided by the police that the jacket in Z's hand is not Sarai's.

http://www.istanbulhaber.com.tr/haber/laz-ziyayi-ararken-katille-yuz-yuze-159091.htm

 

[michellemarls]

According to some of the papers here, it's been decided by the police that the jacket in Z's hand is not Sarai's.

http://www.istanbulhaber.com.tr/haber/laz-ziyayi-ararken-katille-yuz-yuze-159091.htm

:waitasec: The wonders of the press eh. constantly reporting contradicting stories.

 

[Yashim]

Are you sure about this? You did mention it before.

There is a photo of SS taken wearing heavy silver hoop earrings. Can't tell if they are pierced or not, but it's probably more common that women have pierced ears.

Herat, I'm sorry. In fact, my apologies, everyone.

That "since" should have been an "if".

Of course we don't know much about the condition of the body. I think details were especially kept confidential.

In case the perp didn't want to take the earrings and any of SS's belongings of no/little value to him, it make some sense to place them next to the body instead of finding another place to hide them.

But in case the body was a double, it would make sense those who ever planned this had that assumption of many women having pierced ears and realized that it wasn't true for the body.

But most probably that's not the case. But what then?

 

[Yashim]

I haven't caught all the way up yet, so forgive me if this has already been asked. When a person sends a text at a certain time, but for some reason the phone does not actually send it yet and does so later, does the time come up as the original time the text is written, or does it now show the time it is actually on it's way. I hope I am making sense as I had surgery this morning and don't feel very with it.

thanks!

It should state the time it is sent and not received. There was a GSM operator in Turkey that enabled users to set the time for the text to be sent. But I doubt it caught on. Unlikely that SS's operator provided that feature.

And when the sending is not successful, it should ask the user whether it should try to send it again.

So, I believe the time stamp is the exact time it was sent.

 

[Kluver13]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/sa...-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41576&NewsCatID=341

The article is in English she was killed with a brick. Turkish version mention the hours she was killed while English it does not. Odd..
According to this article SS was killed on January 21st 2013 between 15.00 and 18.00. So this answers a lot of discussions and questions about the timing of hear death.

Now the murder weapon is a brick as opposed to a bloody rock at the scene...

 

[Yashim]

Those of us who have had to witness and experience our own family going through something like this likely have a little less enthusiasm for some of the media reporting......

That you for your post and all the nice things that you’ve said about Istanbul, my very hometown, where my family has lived for hundreds of years.

Based on my impression that this is initially a forum for solving crimes and finding missing persons, one should prepare him/herself to see more theories about “kidnapping, body doubles, international spies or drug business” than RIP messages. And I believe buying some of Sarai’s art work at instacanv.as says much more than any RIP message. “I apologize for being so direct.” That’s what, I believe, many of us did or will choose to do in the future.

Social media and online communities are a double-edged sword. Unfortunately, we cannot take the good and leave the bad most of the time. What once opened a new window in Sarai’s life and allowed her to find herself will also allow any dirt to be thrown at her. That’s the cost we all face.

“Just a murder in the afternoon on that day at the walls.” This is what I had kept saying, yet it became more and more difficult by each revealed fact. Then I and many others went ahead and began to question our assumptions. We felt solving this case required more from us.

When you’re solving a case, you have to make assumptions and assume that people have objectives that are reasonably simple and consistent in time. While we currently have no evidence that sleuthing is your primary motive for posting your first message, it would still fit in well within the spirit of the forum to acknowledge others’ attempts. These attempts are mostly aimed at developing a theory and discovering a motive that helps explain the sequence of all (or most) of what happened during Sarai’s visit in Istanbul.

After all, any behavior, however peculiar, can be explained by assuming that the behavior itself was the objective. Why did I stand on my head on the table while holding a burning $1,000 bill between my toes? Because I wanted to stand on my head on the table while holding a burning $1,000 bill between my toes.

This method of behavior analysis will get us, i.e. those of us who are thinking day and night to understand this crime, nowhere.

An attack on a victim’s left side allows forensics to assume that the assailant is right-handed. While there may be exceptions to this deduction, stating that “the assailant just wanted to use his right hand” will help as little as saying “just a murder in the afternoon on that day at the walls”, even if true.

The moment we start worrying if we will sound ridiculous or hurt families when developing assumptions or theories, we will have stopped sleuthing, the very reason why most of us are here for.

That is unless we only worry about hurting the family of Sarai, the American Christian and not the families of Taylan, the Turkish Muslim or any other suspect ever suggested, including even Ziya.

...

 

[StCirq]

That brings the question who are the family friends in Istanbul? We never saw any of them in any footage.

I have been asking that all along. David Jimenez hd some contact in Istanbul, whether through his church or on his own, as he arranged the lodging for him and Steven through " friends of a friend," if reported correctly.

Also, as I mentioned yesterday, if SS didn't send the text to her sister, who did? It must have been someone who spoke perfect colloquial English and knew she was " coming home tomorrow...YAY!" Apart from T and the landlord, who knew that? Certainly not Z, who couldn't have written that in English to begin with. Either SS was alive at 4:20 pm Turkish time when that message was sent, or someone with perfect English and knowledge of her plans the next day wrote it.

I'm beginning to think there may be some connection to the landlord. I agree, the way things should go is the landlord writes in his native language and LE gets an official translator (and even then it might not be perfect colloquial English).

 

[Herat]

Either SS was alive at 4:20 pm Turkish time when that message was sent, or someone with perfect English and knowledge of her plans the next day wrote it. .

Or the time the text was sent was actually earlier and only acknowledged or found at 4:20 pm IST time.

 

[Yashim]

...which reminds me of your other scenario, Yashim, and was it really SS that was found in that cave?

I think it was SS.

Because medical examiner wouldn't miss that and her family's grief is so genuine.

But a homeless guy, with no prior convictions, murders someone and steals only electronics and then tries to escape to Syria is also a very very rare thing. First time I am hearing of a homeless guy committing a murder. Usually they are the ones to get murdered.

I was just looking for a theory that would allow us to make sense of everything, however we seem to be in need of creating a new theory to explain or make sense of every single detail.

And the farthest reach of my imagination was to suggest the body was a double, despite knowing that it's not what the audience wants.

...

 

[Chewy]

That you for your post and all the nice things that you’ve said about Istanbul, my very hometown, where my family has lived for hundreds of years.

Based on my impression that this is initially a forum for solving crimes and finding missing persons, one should prepare him/herself to see more theories about “kidnapping, body doubles, international spies or drug business” than RIP messages. And I believe buying some of Sarai’s art work at instacanv.as says much more than any RIP message. “I apologize for being so direct.” That’s what, I believe, many of us did or will choose to do in the future.

Social media and online communities are a double-edged sword. Unfortunately, we cannot take the good and leave the bad most of the time. What once opened a new window in Sarai’s life and allowed her to find herself will also allow any dirt to be thrown at her. That’s the cost we all face.

“Just a murder in the afternoon on that day at the walls.” This is what I had kept saying, yet it became more and more difficult by each revealed fact. Then I and many others went ahead and began to question our assumptions. We felt solving this case required more from us.

When you’re solving a case, you have to make assumptions and assume that people have objectives that are reasonably simple and consistent in time. While we currently have no evidence that sleuthing is your primary motive for posting your first message, it would still fit in well within the spirit of the forum to acknowledge others’ attempts. These attempts are mostly aimed at developing a theory and discovering a motive that helps explain the sequence of all (or most) of what happened during Sarai’s visit in Istanbul.

After all, any behavior, however peculiar, can be explained by assuming that the behavior itself was the objective. Why did I stand on my head on the table while holding a burning $1,000 bill between my toes? Because I wanted to stand on my head on the table while holding a burning $1,000 bill between my toes.

This method of behavior analysis will get us, i.e. those of us who are thinking day and night to understand this crime, nowhere.

An attack on a victim’s left side allows forensics to assume that the assailant is right-handed. While there may be exceptions to this deduction, stating that “the assailant just wanted to use his right hand” will help as little as saying “just a murder in the afternoon on that day at the walls”, even if true.

The moment we start worrying if we will sound ridiculous or hurt families when developing assumptions or theories, we will have stopped sleuthing, the very reason why most of us are here for.

That is unless we only worry about hurting the family of Sarai, the American Christian and not the families of Taylan, the Turkish Muslim or any other suspect ever suggested, including even Ziya.

...

This is such a great post! On another forum I attend we are allowed to nominate great posts. I can only thank yours.

 

[EncyclopediaBrown]

This was probably posted before, but there are so many threads, who knows?!
It's about the police refuting media's claims -- one of them -- the white car. I was asking about it before, but had never seen proof of it being refuted.
http://www.todayszaman.com/news-306...s-questionable-claims-about-sarai-sierra.html

 

[SANDOVAL]

According to some of the papers here, it's been decided by the police that the jacket in Z's hand is not Sarai's.

http://www.istanbulhaber.com.tr/haber/laz-ziyayi-ararken-katille-yuz-yuze-159091.htm

AH..
no, it must be 'the OTHER jacket' from the grainy walking video of the mystery decoy. (or not)....

 

[Blackydress]

Or the time the text was sent was actually earlier and only acknowledged or found at 4:20 pm IST time.

According to the article in Hurriyet (Turkish version) SS was killed on January 21 2013 betweem 15.00 and 18.00 hours.

 

[Blackydress]

According to Istanbul governor, who spoke to the press today:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/22649620.asp
A quick translation of mine, since the English version is not the same:

"THERE ARE CURRENTLY MANY DETAILS WORKED ON”
"Many details are currently being worked on subjects such as this person did it. Perp is tihs person. Or this person was with this other or that other person. All these issues are being worked on. There are some points determined. There are search related to these. Perp. Will be found at the end of the investigation. But there are information about the person or persons who participated. This was in de media too. There is one person who is chased. LE continues the search activities outside Istanbul. When this person is reached then it will be possible to give clear answers. Therefore there is an investigation going on. "

 

[bet2173]

According to Istanbul governor, who spoke to the press today:
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/22649620.asp
A quick translation of mine, since the English version is not the same:

"THERE ARE CURRENTLY MANY DETAILS WORKED ON”
"Many details are currently being worked on subjects such as this person did it. Perp is tihs person. Or this person was with this other or that other person. All these issues are being worked on. There are some points determined. There are search related to these. Perp. Will be found at the end of the investigation. But there are information about the person or persons who participated. This was in de media too. There is one person who is chased. LE continues the search activities outside Istanbul. When this person is reached then it will be possible to give clear answers. Therefore there is an investigation going on. "

Thank you for this!

Just one minor addition: I've watched the whole video of his speech. Other than underlining how safe Istanbul is compared to the other big cities for the 100th time, the gist of his words was that the police is going after every possible scenario that might have happened with regard to the evidence they have in their hands.

 

[ThinkHard]

Sarai Sierra murdered with a brick, report says



BBM

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/sa...-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=41576&NewsCatID=341

Strange...I would think the jacket would be covered in blood.

Also if he would go through the effort to sell a leather jacket at the grand bazaar, why wouldn't he have taken the jewelry if it was gold as well. Gold jewelry would be substantially easier to clean blood off of then leather.

 

[Herat]

I am going to assume the jacket in question is the original leather jacket SS was photographed in in NYC and we saw in the mall/food court surveillance video. I also assume it was not in the inventory of her personal belongings at the apartment.

I would think that would actually be fairly easy to verify/deny with a second-hand clothing merchant, as there are photographs of it.

So her jacket or not her jacket?
Blood-stained or not?
Her earrings or not?
Z in the second-hand market or not Z?
4:20pm text message or earlier?

Things that make you go hmmmmmm

 

[bet2173]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-Turkey-spotted-CCTV.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

Check out the second paragraph where its says the murder was on 24 Feb! WHAT??!!

 

[ThinkHard]

Or the time the text was sent was actually earlier and only acknowledged or found at 4:20 pm IST time.

Though I don't think the family in that case would say they last heard from her at 9:20 am, if that was only the time they noticed the text. The text are time stamped so I would think they would reference the time stamp on the text, and not the time they viewed it when quoting when the last heard from her.