Twins get “mystifying” DNA ancestry test results

[margarita25]

Twins get “mystifying” DNA ancestry test results / (video from 3 years ago)

I did not realize until this seeing video that these DNA ancestry tests had so much margin for error and are often hypothesized guesses. In my opinion, their marketing and advertising can be misleading.

 

[Amonet]

I've heard of this happening. I've ordered a DNA kit from Ancestry that I keep forgetting to 'do' and send back in, but I am so excited about it. Primarily to use it in conjunction with the family tree and see if I can get any matches to people for lines like my 3rd or 4th great grandfather who was from Wales....Got his approximate birth year and the census data for after he joined the army, but his childhood is a bit of a mystery as he has a very common name/surname and I'm struggling to attach him with certainty to parents and family.

I can already see from the tree that all the lines I've taken back a few hundred years are in Wales/Ireland/England. So anything other than those things would be amazing to find out. But with the caveat that a lot of what comes back is an approximation.

And there are things like the movement of populations, perhaps taking DNA from somewhere like Germany, going via France or the Netherlands, and ending up at some point in England...and where that DNA will show as being from can be very nuanced because it reflects something so nuanced as population movements, and they can't give you the whole journey, but maybe a little bit of that journey, in your results.

I did read some stuff on the Ancestry forums about the DNA experiences from lots of people, and on review boards, and it seems a lot of people buy the kit just to find out things like the country origins of their ancestors. But there's so much more that can be gained from it. And perhaps there will be a surname that turns up in the 18th century that's been anglicised and this test might show that name is an anglicised form rather than an English name (for instance) by giving you a clue that you have DNA from somewhere like Germany or Spain or the Middle East, or wherever. I think it's all valuable as part of a larger investigation into our family trees and our ancestry and ancestors.

 

[margarita25]

I've heard of this happening. I've ordered a DNA kit from Ancestry that I keep forgetting to 'do' and send back in, but I am so excited about it. Primarily to use it in conjunction with the family tree and see if I can get any matches to people for lines like my 3rd or 4th great grandfather who was from Wales....Got his approximate birth year and the census data for after he joined the army, but his childhood is a bit of a mystery as he has a very common name/surname and I'm struggling to attach him with certainty to parents and family.

I can already see from the tree that all the lines I've taken back a few hundred years are in Wales/Ireland/England. So anything other than those things would be amazing to find out. But with the caveat that a lot of what comes back is an approximation.

And there are things like the movement of populations, perhaps taking DNA from somewhere like Germany, going via France or the Netherlands, and ending up at some point in England...and where that DNA will show as being from can be very nuanced because it reflects something so nuanced as population movements, and they can't give you the whole journey, but maybe a little bit of that journey, in your results.

I did read some stuff on the Ancestry forums about the DNA experiences from lots of people, and on review boards, and it seems a lot of people buy the kit just to find out things like the country origins of their ancestors. But there's so much more that can be gained from it. And perhaps there will be a surname that turns up in the 18th century that's been anglicised and this test might show that name is an anglicised form rather than an English name (for instance) by giving you a clue that you have DNA from somewhere like Germany or Spain or the Middle East, or wherever. I think it's all valuable as part of a larger investigation into our family trees and our ancestry and ancestors.

Thank you for this awesome response. Exciting stuff. And this is an especially good point: “And there are things like the movement of populations, perhaps taking DNA from somewhere like Germany, going via France or the Netherlands, and ending up at some point in England...and where that DNA will show as being from can be very nuanced because it reflects something so nuanced as population movements, and they can't give you the whole journey, but maybe a little bit of that journey, in your results.”

 

[margarita25]

Re: the twins getting different results, though, I would venture to say this reflects a potential issue specifically wrt to test calibration, which is bringing up inconsistent results? Thoughts?

 

[Amonet]

Re: the twins getting different results, though, I would venture to say this reflects a potential issue specifically wrt to test calibration, which is bringing up inconsistent results? Thoughts?

It is indeed very concerning to think that if your DNA was run a dozen times you might get back a dozen slightly different results....and they're probably all valid in their own way, though part of a work in process in the interpretation side.

That's part of why I feel it's a useful investigative tool but shouldn't be the only tool used.

 

[Hope32]

I am also guessing that the results in the raw form aren't going to show as much of a difference as the printed given results. Also the results from 3 years ago didn't have as much congregated data as they do now. I think I have read that they can update the percentages as they receive more data to get more detailed information. As mentioned above especially with European decent there was a lot of movement across borders and intermingling that likely "mushed" DNA together.

I agree with @Amonet each run is accurate in itself, but interpretation can change as more data and information comes in. I wonder how much of the interpretation is also pulled from trees that are created and uploaded for movements of people. I think it's interesting, but DNA (while not as often as RNA) has chances for error when reproducing leading to spectrums (kind of like mosaic Down's Syndrome where some cells reproduce normally while others don't). Also the fact we have only in the last 20 years since the full genome has been sequenced it's very new technology. Reading up on the Genome Project the fully thing has apparently not been sequenced (Psst, the human genome was never completely sequenced. Some scientists say it should be : "FAQs from the National Institutes of Health refer to the sequence’s “essential completion,” and to the question, “Is the human genome completely sequenced?” they answer, “Yes,” with the caveat — that it’s “as complete as it can be” given available technology.")

It also depends on the type of DNA sequenced if it's maternal, paternal, etc. Different companies also use different methods as well as have different specialties. Ancestry is more family/genealogical, but 23andMe specializes in more traits/health aspects. I have been looking to do this with my sister for years and have been trying to find out what one is the one we should do based on their specialties.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

@Amonet - I had a brick wall I was just sure I was going to break through with DNA. It really hasn't happened. Here's why.

You get a list of Ancestry testers who share some parts of your DNA. If your matches don't have an Ancestry tree (most of them) that doesn't help you. At all. You have an Ancestry user name and that's about it.

So as it turns out, new members getting DNA results are using your research to find out about their ancestors and ancestry is using your research to inform new users about their long lost family but you aren't really getting any new tree information because these new users aren't bringing in new tree information, they're only bringing in a spit test.

If you've done tons of work and gone back many generations you probably have already "run into" the genealogists who are researching your lines or close family lines. The DNA test can verify it *if* you share DNA with those members.

But a DNA test result with no family research can only say you have a relative in common somewhere, but not where or whom. And most people taking DNA tests have no family research experience or tree information.

 

[carbuff]

Thank you for this awesome response. Exciting stuff. And this is an especially good point: “And there are things like the movement of populations, perhaps taking DNA from somewhere like Germany, going via France or the Netherlands, and ending up at some point in England...and where that DNA will show as being from can be very nuanced because it reflects something so nuanced as population movements, and they can't give you the whole journey, but maybe a little bit of that journey, in your results.”

Exactly. My grandmother's family came to the US from Bohemia, but when my kids did DNA tests, they didn't show up with any Central European DNA, just German. Turns out there were a lot of Germans who went to Bohemia for political reasons a couple of generations previously, so though both great-gma and great-gpa were thoroughly Bohemian, they still showed up as likely from Germany.

 

[Eloise]

I am also guessing that the results in the raw form aren't going to show as much of a difference as the printed given results. Also the results from 3 years ago didn't have as much congregated data as they do now. I think I have read that they can update the percentages as they receive more data to get more detailed information. As mentioned above especially with European decent there was a lot of movement across borders and intermingling that likely "mushed" DNA together.

I agree with @Amonet each run is accurate in itself, but interpretation can change as more data and information comes in. I wonder how much of the interpretation is also pulled from trees that are created and uploaded for movements of people. I think it's interesting, but DNA (while not as often as RNA) has chances for error when reproducing leading to spectrums (kind of like mosaic Down's Syndrome where some cells reproduce normally while others don't). Also the fact we have only in the last 20 years since the full genome has been sequenced it's very new technology. Reading up on the Genome Project the fully thing has apparently not been sequenced (Psst, the human genome was never completely sequenced. Some scientists say it should be : "FAQs from the National Institutes of Health refer to the sequence’s “essential completion,” and to the question, “Is the human genome completely sequenced?” they answer, “Yes,” with the caveat — that it’s “as complete as it can be” given available technology.")

It also depends on the type of DNA sequenced if it's maternal, paternal, etc. Different companies also use different methods as well as have different specialties. Ancestry is more family/genealogical, but 23andMe specializes in more traits/health aspects. I have been looking to do this with my sister for years and have been trying to find out what one is the one we should do based on their specialties.

re: the bold. Yes, Ancestry will send you emails to let you know they've recalibrated how they estimate ethnicity estimates, and you can check your updated results.

you also get 'ownership' of your raw dna file, and you can upload that to other services as much as you like. So you can take advantage of newer data methods at any company that lets you upload your file with them.

(re your last point, yep, Ancestry doesn't do the maternal haplogroup bit. That's 23&Me I think. But for everything else Ancestry has been great, in my experience)

 

[Filly]

No shade at anyone checking out their DNA. It's just no way I'd do it.

However thanks so much for this "twins" information.

My DD did it. It seems my great great grandmother was French. Well, my great gram lived to be ancient and never told us her mom was French.

DD did more digging. Indeed she was French and changed her first name too. Now my DD is giving her dog commands in French?????

 

[Amonet]

I have a recollection of my mum telling me when I was a child, that her gran was Irish. In the story, she came over to London and went 'into service' meaning a maidservant. I believe she had a brother who also came to England.

And I'm doing my family tree and my mum's gran wasn't Irish, she was born in London.

But, it turned out that my mum's gran's grandmother was born in Ireland! My memory must be of my great-grandmother's grandmother! I seem to be the only one in the family with that recollection. The only thing I wish now is that I could locate the brother on census records, and I really doubt that's possible, but I'd love to know what happened to him.

 

[dalsglen]

Re: the twins getting different results, though, I would venture to say this reflects a potential issue specifically wrt to test calibration, which is bringing up inconsistent results? Thoughts?

I'll not be suggesting to my husband we get our twins teste. well, unless I'm looking for a messy divorce

 

[Filly]

I have a recollection of my mum telling me when I was a child, that her gran was Irish. In the story, she came over to London and went 'into service' meaning a maidservant. I believe she had a brother who also came to England.

And I'm doing my family tree and my mum's gran wasn't Irish, she was born in London.

But, it turned out that my mum's gran's grandmother was born in Ireland! My memory must be of my great-grandmother's grandmother! I seem to be the only one in the family with that recollection. The only thing I wish now is that I could locate the brother on census records, and I really doubt that's possible, but I'd love to know what happened to him.

Wow. As we go on stories change a bit. You're the person clued in with the great great gran.

Hoping some way you can find the brother/uncle.

 

[Filly]

I'll not be suggesting to my husband we get our twins teste. well, unless I'm looking for a messy divorce

Just cracked me up. Could you imagine?

 

[UltRight]

And there are things like the movement of populations, perhaps taking DNA from somewhere like Germany, going via France or the Netherlands, and ending up at some point in England...and where that DNA will show as being from can be very nuanced because it reflects something so nuanced as population movements, and they can't give you the whole journey, but maybe a little bit of that journey, in your results.

You mean like the Anglo-Saxons (a German tribe) settling in the UK?

 

[Trident]

I have a DNA kit that I keep eyeing but never sent in. I 'think' I know about my ancestors, BUT, I'm also sure I don't know the whole truth, the ins and the outs.

That said, I have French ancestory on one side, German/Danish/Icelandic/Scottish/English on the other - that's without factoring in the ancestors that came before my great grandparents. According to family stories there was also a bit of Dutch thrown in there, but I believe they traveled through Holland on their way to other places. People have never sat still, they were always moving, seeking more land, prosperity, safety, to name a few.

Now, throw in the husband/sperm donor to a mother from one country. His DNA is in there now and no one, except the mother will know if that is true, or the sperm of a lover from God knows where. This goes on for generations. Unless you can prove your family has lived in one place for centuries and married into the indigenous population for centuries, you cannot be sure. Even then you cannot be 100% sure since there were always traveling salesmen/traders. And let's not forget 'adoption'. Many adoptees back then were never told, just added to the tree - another monkey wrench.

Now, the biggest of all mysteries to me is Jacob and Esau, supposedly identical twins, yet one was red and hairy, and the other smooth. I'm assuming their mother Rebekah was a faithful wife, and Isaac was a faithful husband - so, how did their twins turn out so different? I have a set of twins, supposedly identical - they do look alike, same sak, but one had thick black hair and the other was bald. Interesting, and they don't act at all alike.

Bottom line, this DNA sequencing is fun and it does tell a BIT of the story, but not the whole truth, IMO. Your parents may have come from Italy, Germany, but that doesn't mean both were Italian or German. It may be that neither of them was, they just settled there and called themselves Italians or Germans.

 

[UltRight]

In my view, generally people reflect what their ancestors did. People tend to be pretty consistent.

The scatter diagrams showing the differences between European ethnic groups are useful, but if you go back far enough, we are all Germans.

 

[killarney rose]

My first boyfriend was a twin. He and his twin didn’t look related, much less like twins. BF was short and skinny, blonde hair, blue eyes and freckles. Twin was tall and heavy. Brown hair, olivish skin, brown eyes.

 

[Trident]

There are fraternal twins and identical twins. Fraternal twins are 2 fertilized eggs in their own water sack. Identical twins are 1 egg that splits and both fetuses are contained in the same sack.

 

[carbuff]

There are fraternal twins and identical twins. Fraternal twins are 2 fertilized eggs in their own water sack. Identical twins are 1 egg that splits and both fetuses are contained in the same sack.

And fraternal twins aren't any more alike than any other brothers and sisters. There are even rare cases of fraternal twins having different fathers.