TX - 21 arrests in gang rapes of 11yo girl, Cleveland, 2010

[jnTexas]

This is the next town over from where I live. I moved my kids out of this school district in the middle of my oldest daughters 5th grade year due to the racial tension and fights in this school district. I don't know if all involved were the same race or not. Just stating why we moved. This is so sad, but not surprising. Just like any other small town, it has it's fair share of poverity, crime and drug use.
Some of the guys involved are jr high school and high school. THEY had to know this little girl was in JR high. I just don't understand the mind set of someone taking advantage of a female like this. No matter if she states shes 15, 16, 17, 28, 40 seriously 28 men. JUST SICK!!

 

[Missizzy]

If one is to believe the comments on Topix and following the articles, the child is possibly of mixed race. I have a strong feeling that this issue alone, is causing diviciveness and disunity in this small town. This very well could be the reason that DHS has her in a safe house. A small town in chaos is no place for a victim to heal.

 

[jnTexas]

One thing I don't understand though, she is 11. i have a 14 yr old, 12 yr old, and 9 yr old. I ALWAYS ALWAYS know where they are and who they are with. I do not and will never understand how this could happen. Who was watching over her this day? what condition did she come home in as this was not reported the same day? How do you not notice that your child is hurting? I am not blaming the parents. just asking how?

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I've read local comments that she was gone for 2 days when the rapes took place.

I can't help but wonder if that's true and if so, if that had something to do with why CPS took her from the home. To me, IF TRUE, that could be considered pretty neglectful knowingly letting a little 11 year old child take off with a 19 year old and his buddies and then she doesn't come home for two DAYS?

I don't think we're hearing all of the reasoning behind CPS's decision. (I'm trying to give them some benefit of the doubt here--hope they don't prove me wrong and that they had more to go on that what is being reported. Otherwise it's a pretty atrocious injustice to the victim and her family).

 

[tlcya]

I truly appreciate Salem keeping us in line. We need that in a heated debate when children's safety is being considered. We do not have all the facts. There's no way we will until the evidence is presented at court. We can make assumptions but we can't truly know.

However, that said, I have to say that as the mother of eight victims, I am tremendously interested in what causes a child to put herself in harm's way. I'm compelled to examine the nuances. My children went back time and time again, knowing full well that they would be raped as they simply wanted to please their friend. That's one of my life's greatest questions. Why?

There can be no blame laid at this child's feet but I do wonder as to what might cause a child to seek out the company of much older friends and to take such risks. Why are our children falling prey to the temptations of the world and losing their innocence far too early? I think these issues will be discussed at length in court, when it comes time for sentencing, and they intrigue me. I'm very sorry if I've stepped over the line.

I understand the point you are making and that you are not falling prey to the old "the victim shares some blame for getting into this fix" but rather rasing a genuine concern about possible behaviors of an 11 year old which may be seen as attention seeking in the wrong way.

I get that hon. I know you are not suggesting in any way that the victim asked for it, deserved it, brought it on, or anything derogatory.

I feel your concern as I have watched young girls in my own neighborhood running around acting much older than their years. Pretending to be much more sexually knowing than they probably are or worse actually are sexually active. I have to wonder, what do their parents think they are up to when they are running the neighborhood, sometimes accompanied by older boys? Do their parents think they are over at "Jessica's" house? Do they even care? I have been noticing this more and more in my own little corner of the world, maybe because my DD is ten, going on eleven and I am scared to death. Hoping to keep her a child until childhood is done.

ETA I am still of the opinion that some social network posing and the fact that she may have been wearing makeup do not necessarily mean she was courting disaster or that it was indicitive of a problem. If there is some preexisting problem, I am sure it will come to light in due time.

 

[DeepThinker]

One thing I don't understand though, she is 11. i have a 14 yr old, 12 yr old, and 9 yr old. I ALWAYS ALWAYS know where they are and who they are with. I do not and will never understand how this could happen. Who was watching over her this day? what condition did she come home in as this was not reported the same day? How do you not notice that your child is hurting? I am not blaming the parents. just asking how?

rbbm

children become very adept at not showing when they're hurt...it's a survival instinct, imo

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully snipped~

However, that said, I have to say that as the mother of eight victims, I am tremendously interested in what causes a child to put herself in harm's way. I'm compelled to examine the nuances. My children went back time and time again, knowing full well that they would be raped as they simply wanted to please their friend. That's one of my life's greatest questions. Why?

There can be no blame laid at this child's feet but I do wonder as to what might cause a child to seek out the company of much older friends and to take such risks. Why are our children falling prey to the temptations of the world and losing their innocence far too early? I think these issues will be discussed at length in court, when it comes time for sentencing, and they intrigue me. I'm very sorry if I've stepped over the line.

Because they are children! They want to be liked and loved. It's normal. They also go through development periods that send their brains haywire. It's the same when an abused child does not want to leave the parent that hurts them so badly. And you can not (in my opinion, I have no references, just experience) educate them against it. All children want to be liked and to belong. And they get taken advantage of, bullied and pummeled sometimes. There is no one answer, because every child's experiences are different. But what is the same is a desire to belong.

Children don't understand they are taking a risk when they have older friends or a cousin, uncle, aunt that takes too much interest in them. They don't know it is a risk. They trust and that is not always a good thing. That is why children have parents. For some children, parents are a good thing. For others, maybe not

These guys were older and it is sooooo very sad that not 1 of them stepped back and said Whoa! wait a minute! Something is wrong here! This would have been wrong if the victim was 21 or 32 or 106. There is no making this right and blame lies at the feet of these (whatever you want to call them) who knew better. And yes, they knew better - no one could ever convince me that they did not know better.

Salem

 

[mysteriew]

Something that I noticed that was odd. The juvenile's were basketball team members, and the son of an elected official. People who would appear to have things going on in their life. But the adults were major bad. History's of sex assault of a child, manslaughter, robbery and etc. How did these two very different groups come together?

 

[mysteriew]

that poor girl and her family....how tortured they must all feel

and the parents of these boys are trying to make the boys the victims..:banghead:

my head is just going to explode

It will get worse if she ever tries to go back into that school system. She got members of the basketball team arrested. They will make her life real bad if she ever goes back.

 

[mysticrose]

Sounds like this entire town needs a good slap in the face or maybe a good boot you know where..... What in the heck is wrong with people when basketball players become more important then a girl that has been raped :furious:

 

[not_my_kids]

The victim was 11. That fact alone negates EVERYTHING she may have said, done, how she represented herself, whether she "participated", whether she said no. None of that matters. Under the law, she is a child. Under basic logic, she is a child. Children cannot consent to have sex with anyone, be it a 14 year old boy or a 28 man or even a 14 year old girl, for that matter.

Children with behavioral or mental health issues and children with past abuse histories may proposition men, they may flaunt what they have, they may act inappropriately in a lot of ways. It doesn't matter, if they are 11 years old, anyone that acts on those propositions is guilty of a very serious crime. In fact, if the continuous story is that she participated and lied about her age, that may be why she was placed in a foster home; so they could if and why she did act that way. IF she did (and remember these are the stories of the perps, who had plenty of time to get it together) then there has to be a reason, since that's not normal for a grown woman, it's certainly not normal for an 11 year old.

That said, I wonder about the fourteen year old. Did he really comprehend what was happening or was he pushed into it? Don't get me wrong, even if he was coerced, or fell into mob mentality, they should all face something, because now the seeds have been planted in this kid, but it doesn't hurt to remember that not all of them are seasoned criminals and it sounds like at least one is young himself.

Just so sad for the whole human race.

 

[mysteriew]

I keep going back to the fact that one of the persons interviewed in this article talks about her boyfriend. She is a pregnant teen who says she is pregnant with his child. It doesn't say which suspect or how old the teenager is.


http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110218-police-id-suspects-in-cleveland-sex-assault-case

 

[mysteriew]

I have a legal question. If someone watched someone else rape this girl but didn't participate, or try to stop it or report it could they still be charged with rape? I know they can in some cases, but not sure in this one.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's a bigger question - can any and all of them that filmed this or took pictures and sent them out be charged with possession and distribution of child ? That's the first thing my DH said when he heard about this - he thinks they all should get the needle.

 

[mysteriew]

Here's a bigger question - can any and all of them that filmed this or took pictures and sent them out be charged with possession and distribution of child ? That's the first thing my DH said when he heard about this - he thinks they all should get the needle.

Everyone who received those pics and didn't report them could be charged with possession I would think. Including people who weren't even there. And I have read that the pics have been spread through most of the school.

 

[Salem]

I have a legal question. If someone watched someone else rape this girl but didn't participate, or try to stop it or report it could they still be charged with rape? I know they can in some cases, but not sure in this one.

They could be charged with conspiracy, accessory and probably aiding and abetting.


Salem

 

[Missizzy]

I have a very sick feeling that those photos have moved far beyond the boundaries of the school by now.

As to how these guys got together, I wouldn't be surprised if it was pick up basketball. It's a small town and possibly an older guy or two had a younger brother on the team.

This case reminds me of 14 year old Morgan Bell who was dropped off by "friends" at a hospital in Florida last year, drugged and raped, and soon died. Last time I checked, they still hadn't solved the crime but we did learn that she'd had a much older boyfriend with seeming parental support for several years....dating back to when she was 11 or 12.

Parents, please don't allow it. Fight tooth and nail. It's just courting disaster. It's not innocent. And once again, I am a super strong proponent of all teens, from middle school up, being taught the law and how it affects their sexuality--both boys and girls. They learn to wear seat belts. They learn to use birth control. They can be taught the laws pertaining to age of consent and the penalties facing them if they don't follow them. Arguably some of the most important info they'll ever learn. Most Juvenile PO Depts. offer this service. Our son's soccer team had a full day of instruction with no holds barred. The boys could literally ask anything they wanted and a PO and a police officer answered their questions. It was invaluable.

That's not to say that most of these horrid men wouldn't have still participated but they wouldn't be able to claim they didn't know. Concerning the attackers/rapists, I worry most about the youngest as he was most likely encouraged by the older men.

Has anyone read about what precipitated the young girl showing up in the school office to report this? Was she being threatened, coerced, harassed, or did she need medical care? I truly wonder if the men weren't using their photos of her to blackmail her into a repeat performance.

 

[Missizzy]

How could she not need medical care, come to think of it?

 

[not_my_kids]

I have no idea how she wouldn't need medical care or how she would have hidden that from her parents and other loved ones, including the school. I'm sitting here as a grown women (that has had four children nonetheless) trying to figure out ho wit is possible that she was even walking under her own power, and so far, no idea. Bear in mind, the charges are that they raped her more than once, meaning there are some of them that went back more than once.

I do think there is some news confusion, since some links say that she reported it herself, but one says that a boy that goes to the school recieved the pics or video after it went viral and upon recognizing the girl and some of the attackers, promptly reported it. Quite honestly, with the time frame that it took to be reported, it is more probable, IMO, that this last account is more accurate. Or it may be a combination of the two. That is not to blame the victim or lessen her credibility in any way. Many adult women won't report a rape because of shame or fear or the feeling that they brought it on themselves. I can hardly blame a child for not reporting in a timely fashion, especially when it seems that she had little support, because no one knew.

 

[IWannaKnow]

Thats what I read too NMK. That the video was making the rounds around school, someone saw it and recognized the girl and some of the men and reported it. Another article said the police chief approached her and she confessed to him....IIRC.

While I in no way blame the girl, I do blame the mother/father somewhat. Did they know where the child was? Was she really gone for 2 days? Did she slip out the window to go with the 19 y.o. or walk through the living room and out the front door? Did they look for her, wonder where she was, report her as missing????? There are some details I would like answers to before passing any judgement about how this sad state of affairs came about, but regardless there is no excuse for what occurred. What does it say about our world that 28 men and at least one mother think gang rape is ok (with ID of course)? I don't care if she didn't defend him, she didn't revile him either. That said, I completely agree with Salem, kids want to be loved and accepted, somewhere, anywhere, and often times the love of their parents is not what they want. They want to be grown up, do grown up things, act like a grown up - in a hurry to get to the age where "no one can tell me what to do". Nothing wrong with that, completely normal, but the adults should be monitoring that very closely and the articles I've read do not indicate that was happening. Once something has happened however, it can be impossible to turn back from that or even report it to a person they trust because they have been threatened with all kinds of things and are afraid of getting into trouble for doing something they knew was wrong......they don't understand they are not to blame (in fact are told they are to blame and believe it)......so they keep going back. They are afraid not to. Afraid of the secret being revealed, afraid of getting into trouble for it, afraid their parents will be killed (literally or figuratively)..... Fear. It's all about fear.

Sorry to ramble, but Missizzy's post made me do it :innocent: