TX - 22 killed, 26 injured at Walmart, Cielo Vista, El Paso, 3 Aug 2019 *ARREST*

[HMSHood]

I have been seeing a connection made here that mass shooters tend to have been bullies before, and I thought that wasn't what I remembered, but I just now had time to look it up.

It seems the shooters are most often the bullied, not the bullies.



snip



Talking about bullying in the wake of school shootings can be dangerous, experts say

Statistics on Bullying and School Shootings
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf

 

[Boxer]

Has Dick's suffered a lot from their decision?

Dicks apparently stopped selling assault style weapons in February 2018. Since then, their stock price has pretty much remained the same. Sure, a certain number of people will boycott Walmart regarding a decision on gun sales. My guess, however, is that Walmart will not be significantly impacted.

Walmart carrying guns is really left over from being an everything store. Today gun buyers and owners are twice as likely to buy guns and ammo from an outdoors specialty store, such as Bass Pro Shops, Cabela’s or Field & Stream than from a general goods store.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Statistics on Bullying and School Shootings
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/bullying_school_shootings_1.1.pdf

Figure 4 shows that 54% of high-school level shooters were bullied. And Figure 5 shows that 50% were bullies themselves.

So, toss-up?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

On the previous page there was comment about WalMart selling guns. It is getting harder to buy anything at WalMart because they have such a shoplifting problem. I can't buy makeup at WalMart anymore. It's all locked...just like the freaking spray paint!! No way will I summon a clerk to come unlock a case, when I can purchase the same stuff at my local grocery store or Walgreens without it being treated like a "controlled substance".

So, I decide to go there yesterday. This time, I decide to buy clothes. When I get to the dressing room, they have remodeled the dressing rooms, so that there are only 3 stalls for the entire store!! Parents were sneaking in clothes for their kids. Then a lady got mad at me cuz I was upset at having to wait a half hour.

Their garden supplies have taken a nose dive over the past 10 years. The plants are in horrific shape. There really doesn't seem any reason for me to go into WalMart anymore and I live 3 miles from WalMart. Maybe guns is all they will be able to sell at the rate they are going.

ETA: My BIL is an optometrist at WalMart. He had to buy a cheap wallet during his lunch break. Guess what??? They were all locked up. Next they'll be locking up toothpaste.

Rant over!

Wow. May I ask where you live? In general, not trying to invade your privacy.

 

[Friday Fan]

Izzy Blanche: I live in San Antonio, TX.

All of the WalMarts are like this around here.

ETA: I wonder if the main reason the stores stay in business here is because they are a 24/7 grocery store. They just probably don't want to invest in security and prefer to just keep things locked up.

I live within a few miles of Lowe's, a zillion auto parts places, Target, stores like Ross etc etc. WalMart does have some good office supplies (but I live a few miles from Office Depot too) and I sometimes stop in to get a few sewing supplies (mainly bra extenders) Knowing WalMart, they will probably keep all their notions under lock and key the next time I head to that aisle.

 

[TristanP]

No I'm talking about SSRIs, they can have very serious side effects including aggression, hostility, violence suicide, suicidal thoughts, and murderous thoughts. The side effects are well known and have been for quite a while.

James Holmes was on 150 mg of sertraline(generic Zoloft) a day near the end as they increased his dosage up to that point, his journal reflected what it was doing to him. He stopped 20 days before the shooting.

Jeff Weise, Red Lake school shooter was on 60mg of Prozac a day

NIU shooter had been on Prozac and stopped. His girlfriend said it made him a totally different person

Kip Kinkel was on Prozac

Eric Harris had used both Zoloft and Luvox.

Andrea Yates was on Effexor

Ivan Lopez, second ft hood shooter was an on antidepressants.

Va Tech shooter was on Prozac at the time.

Cascade Mall shooter was on Prozac


Is it Drugs Not Guns that Cause Violence?

Psychiatric Drugs and Violence: A Review of FDA Data Finds A Link
Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

Peter Breggin has written about the topic a lot and offers up a lot of insight into it
https://www.google.com/search?q=pet...droid-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Its something that doesn't get talked about and serious research needs to be done into it considering the number of cases, not just mass shootings but violent acts, where the person had been on, had their dosages increased or had stopped taking them. Doctors say those are the times when people are at risk when taking them

I don’t disagree with you, but it also needs to be taken into consideration that SSRIs are usually the first type of anti-depressant medication given to people, which makes it pretty much the most common type of anti-depressant out there.

 

[Dawookie]

I don’t disagree with you, but it also needs to be taken into consideration that SSRIs are usually the first type of anti-depressant medication given to people, which makes it pretty much the most common type of anti-depressant out there.

Of course it needs to be taken into consideration. With them being the most common, more people on them despite the dangerous side effects which have been known for years.

Four of them, Prozac, Paxil, Effexor and Luvox are four of the top ten prescription drugs linked to violence.

Top Ten Legal Drugs Linked to Violence | TIME.com

Despite that, they are prescribed like crazy which, to me, is a serious problem.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I don’t disagree with you, but it also needs to be taken into consideration that SSRIs are usually the first type of anti-depressant medication given to people, which makes it pretty much the most common type of anti-depressant out there.

Good point. If the patient has undiagnosed bi-polar or paranoid schizophrenia, there can be adverse effects taking SSRIs but blaming SSRI's isn't warranted in cases of mass shootings, there isn't enough clinical evidence to support this.

These guys could have presented at the doctor's surgery with depression and anxiety and walked out of the clinic with a script for SSRI's or benzos as millions of people do all over the world. The patient needs to tell the doctor about suicidal ideation/fantasises of killing/delusions/hallucinations, or describe symptoms that point to a personality disorder like anti-social, borderline, narcissistic or schizotypal personality disorders or a mental illness like schizophrenia. These young men don't do follow up consultations with their doctor, that's what needs to be addressed instead.

IMO, it's not helpful to blame SSRIs without researching the evidence gathered about these shooters, their childhood history, upbringing, were there head injuries or trauma, a family member with a mental illness, and how they were able to buy a high power automatic weapon if they've seen a doctor for depression.
This is a case of correlation does not imply causation but there's enough blogs with people's personal opinions to seem as if there is and some latch onto like it's the answer, when it most certainly is not. JMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Izzy Blanche: I live in San Antonio, TX.

All of the WalMarts are like this around here.

ETA: I wonder if the main reason the stores stay in business here is because they are a 24/7 grocery store. They just probably don't want to invest in security and prefer to just keep things locked up.

I live within a few miles of Lowe's, a zillion auto parts places, Target, stores like Ross etc etc. WalMart does have some good office supplies (but I live a few miles from Office Depot too) and I sometimes stop in to get a few sewing supplies (mainly bra extenders) Knowing WalMart, they will probably keep all their notions under lock and key the next time I head to that aisle.

Thanks. I had to ask because my local Wal-Mart and the one in the town where my parents live 1500 miles away don't have things under lock and key like that. I can't even picture what that would look like.

 

[opalonyx]

The problem I have with theories surrounding bullying and prescription drugs and mental illness is that women equally experience all those things. And yet, the number of male mass shooters and those who commit homicides in general is disproportionate to the US population.

Statistics have been consistent in reporting that men commit more criminal acts than women. In 76% of violent incidents, the victim perceived the offender to be male according to the 2017 national crime victimization study done by the U.S. Department of Justice. A database of 101 mass shootings between 1982 and 2018 recorded 98 male shooters, 2 female shooters, and one partnership of a male and female shooter.

This article discusses the various factors at play that could explain the rate of male mass shooters and the phenomena behind it.
Why are white men carrying out more mass shootings?

Some choice quotes include:

"If you look at the motivation that we know about it does seem to be that men handle their catastrophic loss and self esteem worse than women. Professor Wilson added that men tend to have fewer support networks outside the family unit and their workplace", said Professor David Wilson, a criminologist at Birmingham City University.

"Women tend to see violence as a last resort, as a self-defence mechanism. You use violence if you have to, if there's no other way out. "Men tend to use violence as an offensive weapon, to show them who's boss." - James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University

You can disagree with the assertions above but it is definitely puzzling how the statistics around these mass shooters present.

 

[Safeguard]

"Men tend to use violence as an offensive weapon, to show them who's boss." - James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University

You can disagree with the assertions above but it is definitely puzzling how the statistics around these mass shooters present.

I dont find that the least bit puzzling.

Men are more violent in general .
I can't even believe that's not a given at this point.

Recently I watched (on video) one man beat another man to death in a boxing match... I'm not a fan, (to put it mildly!!) , but 27yr old Maxim Dadashev died from the fight a couple weeks ago, and I wanted to see the people who could sit there and cheer as one man beat another man to death. From the crowd to the officials, they all made me sick.

After Two Deaths Days Apart, Boxing Examines Its Risks

'Farewell my love!' Widow of tragic Maxim Dadashev leads mourning at Russian boxer's funeral

Are men more violent? Fck yeah!

 

[Friday Fan]

I agree men are more violent! I wonder if mass shootings are committed by a certain demographic (suburban dwellers) because the firearms used in mass shootings tend to be very expensive? (Las Vegas...Dayton)

Lower income people will use smaller firearms in commission of a crime. Crime related/domestic violence shootings won't create the terror/headlines that a mass shooting does. Rural gun owners may have use their guns for hunting too. (Maybe this decreases the "kill thrill" factor) It seems that mass shooters tend to be middle class suburban types with expensive firearms. They practice at fire ranges or learn by watching YouTube videos etc.

At the end of the day, most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence, criminal homicides and accidents.

 

[Dawookie]

Good point. If the patient has undiagnosed bi-polar or paranoid schizophrenia, there can be adverse effects taking SSRIs but blaming SSRI's isn't warranted in cases of mass shootings, there isn't enough clinical evidence to support this.

These guys could have presented at the doctor's surgery with depression and anxiety and walked out of the clinic with a script for SSRI's or benzos as millions of people do all over the world. The patient needs to tell the doctor about suicidal ideation/fantasises of killing/delusions/hallucinations, or describe symptoms that point to a personality disorder like anti-social, borderline, narcissistic or schizotypal personality disorders or a mental illness like schizophrenia. These young men don't do follow up consultations with their doctor, that's what needs to be addressed instead.

IMO, it's not helpful to blame SSRIs without researching the evidence gathered about these shooters, their childhood history, upbringing, were there head injuries or trauma, a family member with a mental illness, and how they were able to buy a high power automatic weapon if they've seen a doctor for depression.
This is a case of correlation does not imply causation but there's enough blogs with people's personal opinions to seem as if there is and some latch onto like it's the answer, when it most certainly is not. JMO

There's over 30 cases of school shooters where SSRIs were involved, a majority of them teenagers which is the group (15-24) that has shown the most being affected by them when it comes to violence.

Read up on Cory Baadsgard. He was 16 and prescribed Paxil, which caused hallucinations. They switched him to Effexor and started off at 40mg and in three weeks his dosage was upped to 300mg. First day of that high dose he took his classmates hostage and thankfully the principal was able to talk him into giving him the gun. He has no recollection of what happened.

James Holmes talked to his psychiatrist multiple times about what was going on in his head to the point where she reported him. For some reason his dosage kept getting upped making him even worse and his journals reflect that.

Robert Wesbecker suffered from depression and was bi-polar. Had attempted suicide multiple times as well as expressed thoughts of harming others. Was on Prozac for a month and committed a mass shooting which led to one of several lawsuits against the maker of Prozac. There's a reason Eli Lilly paid out a reported $50M over lawsuits because of Prozac.

How many more cases of mass shootings do we need to see involving SSRIs before we admit there's a problem with them? Especially with the studies that have shown what the side effects are?

Read what Peter Breggin has written about SSRIs and violence. He's a psychiatrist who's written books about it, has been an expert witness in multiple trials of mass shooters where SSRIs have been involved. SSRIs aren't involved in every mass shooting but the ones where they are involved in, they've played a prevalent roll in them

 

[Cryptic]

Recently I watched (on video) one man beat another man to death in a boxing match... I'm not a fan, (to put it mildly!!) , but 27yr old Maxim Dadashev died from the fight a couple weeks ago, and I wanted to see the people who could sit there and cheer as one man beat another man to death. From the crowd to the officials, they all made me sick.

I am a boxing fan and I also watched the match with Dadashev.

In regards to the crowds at boxing matches.....

Boxing fans, like all humans including say, football, basket ball, and of course- soccer fans can vary widely in regards to personal maturity.

I can assure, you however, that boxing fans are no more and no less likely to "celebrate" the violent aspects of the sport than say soccer fans. For example, have you ever heard of boxing fans rioting and killing each other? It happens at soccer matches. Boxing also lacks the very large racist and / or ultra nationalist gangster fan entourages that are common in global soccer.

In regards to boxing safety...

Boxing has gotten a lot safer in the last thirty years. The maximum number of rounds has been reduced, referees are quick to stop fights, and the performances of boxers are closely monitored. Boxers who lack the skills to compete at certain levels and thus at higher risk of injury are not given licenses.

In regards to the Dadashev match.....

Dadashev had the skills to be in that match and though getting hit, was not showing any 'red flags' during the match in regards to concusions etc. This, and Dadashev's desire to keep fighting, kept the match from being stopped until round 11.

Had the referees, ring side doctors, Dadashev, his trainer, and his opponent had crystal balls, the match would have been stopped far sooner.

In regards to boxing as a sport....

There is far more to the "Sweet Science" than two men beating each other. Rather, boxing has conditioning, reflexes and personal courage / respect that many other human activities lack.

Getting off my soap box now.....

 

[coffeeandacig]

Here is a quote from that source. The financial analyst does not believe that Dicks will suffer significant negative long term effects from their decision not to sell assault style weapons:

"Ahead of the firm’s fourth-quarter earnings report, due before the market open Tuesday, Susquehanna Financial LLLP analyst Sam Poser said he expects Dick’s to put up better-than-expected results as it laps the previous year’s headwinds related to its then-new firearms policy.

“We believe, over the long-term, that the number of consumers that do not like the firearms policy Dick’s has adopted will be more than offset by the number of new, sports-oriented customers"

I posted the article to give the quarterly loses Dick's has suffered so far.
I'm not sure how reliable any financial forecasters are in relation to the future. I don't have a crystal ball, and neither do they...LOL

 

[Doghairrules]

This article from Cosmopolitan was linked in my NYT app this morning and has some interesting information about online hate and radicalization. I will alert a mod in case Cosmo isn’t considered MSM. I’m never quite sure about magazines! Lol

This Top-Secret Investigator Infiltrates Hate Groups Online

 

[Cryptic]

I'm not sure how reliable any financial forecasters are in relation to the future. I don't have a crystal ball, and neither do they...LOL

Good grief....

You presented the source as being reliable to prove your statement. Yet when that same source contradicts your statement, it is no longer reliable.

Warren Buffet and others like him do not have crystal balls either. But, they do rather well at predicting the future of financial markets.

Though the professional financial analyst from your own source is not Warren Buffet, you don't need to be Warren Buffet per se or have a crystal ball to make accurate financial forecasts.

Do you have another source that directly calls into question the expertise of this financial analyst from your source?

 

[danzn16]

There's over 30 cases of school shooters where SSRIs were involved, a majority of them teenagers which is the group (15-24) that has shown the most being affected by them when it comes to violence.

Read up on Cory Baadsgard. He was 16 and prescribed Paxil, which caused hallucinations. They switched him to Effexor and started off at 40mg and in three weeks his dosage was upped to 300mg. First day of that high dose he took his classmates hostage and thankfully the principal was able to talk him into giving him the gun. He has no recollection of what happened.

James Holmes talked to his psychiatrist multiple times about what was going on in his head to the point where she reported him. For some reason his dosage kept getting upped making him even worse and his journals reflect that.

Robert Wesbecker suffered from depression and was bi-polar. Had attempted suicide multiple times as well as expressed thoughts of harming others. Was on Prozac for a month and committed a mass shooting which led to one of several lawsuits against the maker of Prozac. There's a reason Eli Lilly paid out a reported $50M over lawsuits because of Prozac.

How many more cases of mass shootings do we need to see involving SSRIs before we admit there's a problem with them? Especially with the studies that have shown what the side effects are?

Read what Peter Breggin has written about SSRIs and violence. He's a psychiatrist who's written books about it, has been an expert witness in multiple trials of mass shooters where SSRIs have been involved. SSRIs aren't involved in every mass shooting but the ones where they are involved in, they've played a prevalent roll in them

However, there is also the fact that these people were mentally ill and that is why they required medication. How can you say that it is not mental illness that caused their symptoms and actions? Especially since it is stated that it takes approximately 6 weeks for them to take effect.

 

[Gardenista]

Ads Pulled for Gory Universal Thriller 'The Hunt' in Wake of Mass Shootings (Exclusive)

 

[Dawookie]

However, there is also the fact that these people were mentally ill and that is why they required medication. How can you say that it is not mental illness that caused their symptoms and actions? Especially since it is stated that it takes approximately 6 weeks for them to take effect.

Someone suffering from depression isn't going to go out and commit a murder or a mass shooting. However adding certain SSRIs to the mix and chances of that person becoming violent are increased.

Top Ten Legal Drugs Linked to Violence | TIME.com

Look at the SSRIs on that list and see that they are the most highly prescribed ones.

Doctors say the most risk comes when starting, stopping or increasing the dosage. Look at shootings where SSRIs were involved and see what had happened concerning the drug.

There's a reason SSRIs have the black box warning from the FDA. There's a reason the makers list the side effects they do. At some point we have to start looking past the mental illness and look at the drugs being prescribed. And it goes beyond mass shootings, it's other acts of violence and suicide where these drugs are involved.