TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

[rsd1200]

We investigated plenty of animal abuse without proof in order to find the proof. It's important to report it even if you have no proof yet. It gives the people in the animal welfare community a chance, at least, to investigate. I have sat in my car in the dark for hours, waiting for abusers to come out and do their thing.

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I totally agree that abuse, of any kind should be reported. However, if she knew him, and was leery of him, that could be enough to stop her from getting involved and hope someone else might. I was helping a young lady retrieve some belongings, from her former foster home, (had permission to be in there) and came upon the homeowner's dog. I was like, hwow:. The neighbor, comes out and starts yelling at us, about the dog, yet he'd lived there for years and knew who the homeowners were! I told him he needed to check himself. He said he was calling LE. I told him to go right ahead that we'd wait there to make sure something was done. Had I not been with her, she'd have been scared to death! I could see this DPK's friend possibly fearing him coming after her if she told what he told her.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I totally agree that abuse, of any kind should be reported. However, if she knew him, and was leery of him, that could be enough to stop her from getting involved and hope someone else might. I was helping a young lady retrieve some belongings, from her former foster home, (had permission to be in there) and came upon the homeowner's dog. I was like, hwow:. The neighbor, comes out and starts yelling at us, about the dog, yet he'd lived there for years and knew who the homeowners were! I told him he needed to check himself. He said he was calling LE. I told him to go right ahead that we'd wait there to make sure something was done. Had I not been with her, she'd have been scared to death! I could see this DPK's friend possibly fearing him coming after her if she told what he told her.

If there is fear, then anonymous call to LE asking them to report to animal control is an option. Animal control should have the brains to keep it anonymous, but I can't swear every backwards county will.

Just FYI for another way to go if you know someone afraid to report. Call an animal rescue group instead. Tell them your fear and ask them to either report it to animal control for you, or check it out themselves.

While we rescuers cannot legally confiscate animals, we're often willing to do the legwork that animal control does not have the time to do in order to collect investigative information. We then work with animal control to get the job finished.

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[kittythehare]

[FONT=&amp] [video=twitter;928810065427030016]https://twitter.com/ABC/status/928810065427030016[/video][/FONT]

 

[bluesneakers]

That says "man who shot the gunman" but I thought we were still waiting official cause and manner of death?

Kelley was found dead after fleeing the scene. Police believe he fatally shot himself, but a cause of death has not been determined. A motive for the massacre has not been determined.

http://www.newsweek.com/texas-churc...-people-texas-use-dogs-target-practice-707591

 

[margarita25]

If there is fear, then anonymous call to LE asking them to report to animal control is an option. Animal control should have the brains to keep it anonymous, but I can't swear every backwards county will.

Just FYI for another way to go if you know someone afraid to report. Call an animal rescue group instead. Tell them your fear and ask them to either report it to animal control for you, or check it out themselves.

While we rescuers cannot legally confiscate animals, we're often willing to do the legwork that animal control does not have the time to do in order to collect investigative information. We then work with animal control to get the job finished.

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(I mentioned upstream I used to do pit bull rescue work. I worked in conjunction with the investigative animal cruelty officers aka "Animal Cops" in a very big city with a huge dogfighting, etc problem. Unfortunately, their/our hands are so often tied because we/they have to give the party an opportunity to resolve the situation (should it be no shelter, water, etc), and can only offer them a citation. Days/weeks later we/they return to see if the situation has been resolved; they have to be given this opportunity legally, and if changes have not been made upon inspection after they have been given chances, only then can there be movement for confiscating the animal(s). We/they just can not legally go in and "remove someone's property".

It will not be a big surprise to any of you that I could not mentally handle this work. The powerlessness of knowing these animals were living under horrible circumstances and there was nothing I could legally do when time was of such essence was unbearable...I could not compartmentalize and go home with it off my mind. Instead I stayed up at night thinking of ways I could go in and rescue these animals sans LE (with a baseball bat) --- These locations were often extremely dangerous, and I was told by my friends to quit or I would surely "end up dead in the trunk of someone's car". Sometimes I would even go in undercover so I could assess the environment, inquiring about puppies for sale...

Due to my sensitive, emotional nature and inability to compartmentalize, I've realized I am not suited for this type of work, rather can help in other ways. Kudos to the folks who can and do this type of work. It made me absolutely craaazzzyyy....Sorry for the O/T...)

 

[rsd1200]

I heard an expert say---and I believe him---that DK wasn't suffering from mental illness, but a personality disorder---he was a psychopath.

I think the difference is that a mental illness is something that develops and could be treated or cured, but a personality disorder is a condition that one is born with, and while a person might learn to adapt, they can never be "cured." In this sense, it is like Austism Spectrum Disorder.

You are correct. There is no cure for a personality disorder. However, they can change themselves. If consequences of an action(s) become uncomfortable for them, they will change that behaviour(s). However, they may repeat that action, many times, (because they must), before the consequences become so uncomfortable for them that they change that behaviour(s). At least this is how it has been explained to me, in layman's terms. :sigh:

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

You are correct. There is no cure for a personality disorder. However, they can change themselves. If consequences of an action(s) become uncomfortable for them, they will change that behaviour(s). However, they may repeat that action, many times, (because they must), before the consequences become so uncomfortable for them that they change that behaviour(s). At least this is how it has been explained to me, in layman's terms. :sigh:

Not true.....for many personality disorders there’s therapy (frequently CBT or DBT types of specific therapy) and often times medication is prescribed as well

 

[pamelado2]

That says "man who shot the gunman" but I thought we were still waiting official cause and manner of death?


http://www.newsweek.com/texas-churc...-people-texas-use-dogs-target-practice-707591

It does say man who shot killer not man who killed him. He was shot twice by the hero, one shot to the Head, self-inflicted.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...shot-to-the-head-was-self-inflicted/23268789/


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[drama_farmer]

I hate to sound like Tipper Gore in the 80s lol because I never agreed with her, and don't really still, but my opinion is tv, movies and video games espeeeeeeecially have assisted in leading to the desensitization----some video games are so violent and brutal and some kids/people spend hours playing them. I am not saying this is the entire cause, but imo it can play a role. Moo. I bet this nutjob played the worst, most violent video games. The kind with big guns and guts splattering. I've seen some of these games myself and they are APALLING. JMO.

bbm

I've been mulling over concepts like desensitization, habituation, visualization, etc.

I don't want to send us down that slippery slope, and am not suggesting that there is some sort of direct cause and effect relationship between violent fantasy-play and actually carrying out such atrocities in "real life." However, it did occur to me that perhaps, when it comes to "first person shooter" type games, playing a role might emotionally and psychologically prepare some to move from "virtual" to "actual."

IOW, and IMO, I might go from "I couldn't imagine myself doing something like that" before playing a particular role in a game. Then, while immersed in game play, I find myself actually doing something like that. I realize that's a very simplistic observation on my part and barely scratches the surface of all of the factors involved. In my experience, imagination/visualization/role playing are very powerful tools, and can work in conjunction with other circumstances to bring a thought into action.

Isn't that how voluntary action begins? . . First, there's a thought, then the visualization of acting on that thought?

It's a huge leap to assume that actively and enthusiastically imagining such a murderous action (while in the game) will lead to a desire to actually murder others, but I do think there's more to explore here. . . just what mechanism(s) are at work to bridge the gap from "I could never" to "I could."

:moo:

 

[margarita25]

bbm

I've been mulling over concepts like desensitization, habituation, visualization, etc.

I don't want to send us down that slippery slope, and am not suggesting that there is some sort of direct cause and effect relationship between violent fantasy-play and actually carrying out such atrocities in "real life." However, it did occur to me that perhaps, when it comes to "first person shooter" type games, playing a role might emotionally and psychologically prepare some to move from "virtual" to "actual."

IOW, and IMO, I might go from "I couldn't imagine myself doing something like that" before playing a particular role in a game. Then, while immersed in game play, I find myself actually doing something like that. I realize that's a very simplistic observation on my part and barely scratches the surface of all of the factors involved. In my experience, imagination/visualization/role playing are very powerful tools, and can work in conjunction with other circumstances to bring a thought into action.

Isn't that how voluntary action begins? . . First, there's a thought, then the visualization of acting on that thought?

It's a huge leap to assume that actively and enthusiastically imagining such a murderous action (while in the game) will lead to a desire to actually murder others, but I do think there's more to explore here. . . just what mechanism(s) are at work to bridge the gap from "I could never" to "I could."

:moo:

:goodpost:

 

[rsd1200]

If there is fear, then anonymous call to LE asking them to report to animal control is an option. Animal control should have the brains to keep it anonymous, but I can't swear every backwards county will.

Just FYI for another way to go if you know someone afraid to report. Call an animal rescue group instead. Tell them your fear and ask them to either report it to animal control for you, or check it out themselves.

While we rescuers cannot legally confiscate animals, we're often willing to do the legwork that animal control does not have the time to do in order to collect investigative information. We then work with animal control to get the job finished.

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In this case, I'd not have hesitated to call LE. I've no problem calling, myself. However, the kid who used to live there, may not have been at that point, as it was a rather complicated situation and, well, was going through a tough time themselves, and just wanted to run into the home, grab some possessions, and back out. My issue was, that the dude comes out and starts yelling at us, over the situation, when he's lived there for years, and so had the other person, and the dog was in plain site from his backyard! Waits til a stranger pulls up to go off on me (and her). You never know when people will go nuts on ya. It was very strange.

 

[LadyL]

to manage the symptoms - the disorder itself is not curable

Not true.....for many personality disorders there’s therapy (frequently CBT or DBT types of specific therapy) and often times medication is prescribed as well

 

[2Hope4]

There isn't a ICD10 for pure evil, but I'm with other posters that believe it is evil in some people. I believe in mental illnesses, and have had a range of different diagnosis in people that I'm close with. Sadly, in every single case that I'm aware of, the help needed is severely lacking. Like three different times in two different emergencies rooms, I've been with someone having an anxiety attack, with hyperventilation and the person unresponsive to commands. Each time the patient was put in an area with lots of people, THE HALLWAY!, to 'shame them' into stopping the attack. Naturally that only makes the attack worse, but neither hospital would listen and I did file a grievence but to my knowledge nothing was done. They refused to give a STAT dose of Ativan, or Valium to stop the attack, they refused to prescribe anything at all. Sooo tonight, I've spent the last 5 hrs with another person, not going to the darn hospital, and within the last hour, they finally went to sleep after exhaustion from the anxiety attack. This should NOT be the way!

Google patient shot in Lynchburg VA emergency room....same place I've dealt with. Person was in a crisis, parent brought them in, I think it was 7hrs later, STILL in the ER, patient became combative, tried to remove security officers taser, and was shot. The man is now paralyzed for life, and of course all the physical illnesses have now compounded his mental ones....

THIS are of health we need lots more funding, and a major overhaul! I don't know if it's lack of knowledge, lack of compassion, feeling those of us with mental health needs are lesser than in society, or what the heck is wrong...but it is.

The person today? Had been without their meds for almost 3 days, and yet, was at the darn doc office TODAY, and the office was going to call in their scripts instead of handing them a written script. The scripts weren't called in. The person went to the office today, missing work, because the script was suppose to have been called in Tues, wasn't, and then yesterday they called and complained and was told the script would be faxed over, it wasn't. So I ended up having to call the on call doctor, explaining that the meds missed were not meds that should be abruptly stopped and the condition the patient was in. Thankfully she called in the scripts to another pharmacy that was still open, and I picked them up Completely could have been avoided...

 

[MistyWaters]

bbm

I've been mulling over concepts like desensitization, habituation, visualization, etc.

I don't want to send us down that slippery slope, and am not suggesting that there is some sort of direct cause and effect relationship between violent fantasy-play and actually carrying out such atrocities in "real life." However, it did occur to me that perhaps, when it comes to "first person shooter" type games, playing a role might emotionally and psychologically prepare some to move from "virtual" to "actual."

IOW, and IMO, I might go from "I couldn't imagine myself doing something like that" before playing a particular role in a game. Then, while immersed in game play, I find myself actually doing something like that. I realize that's a very simplistic observation on my part and barely scratches the surface of all of the factors involved. In my experience, imagination/visualization/role playing are very powerful tools, and can work in conjunction with other circumstances to bring a thought into action.

Isn't that how voluntary action begins? . . First, there's a thought, then the visualization of acting on that thought?

It's a huge leap to assume that actively and enthusiastically imagining such a murderous action (while in the game) will lead to a desire to actually murder others, but I do think there's more to explore here. . . just what mechanism(s) are at work to bridge the gap from "I could never" to "I could."

:moo:

I agree 100% and thank you very much for your very honest observations.

I have long believed that video games have the potential to groom certain young people who already have anger issues into taking violence action later in life.

 

[bluesneakers]

I hate to sound like Tipper Gore in the 80s lol because I never agreed with her, and don't really still, but my opinion is tv, movies and video games espeeeeeeecially have assisted in leading to the desensitization----some video games are so violent and brutal and some kids/people spend hours playing them. I am not saying this is the entire cause, but imo it can play a role. Moo. I bet this nutjob played the worst, most violent video games. The kind with big guns and guts splattering. I've seen some of these games myself and they are APALLING. JMO.

Re: Video games and violence, desensitization:

However, once studies were conducted that measured the long term effects of violent video games, the results changed. Studies that looked at gamers and aggression levels over longer periods found no difference between those who play video games and those who don’t.

"Scientists have investigated the use of violent video games for more than two decades but to date, there is very limited research addressing whether violent video games cause people to commit acts of criminal violence," said Mark Appelbaum, the task force chair. "However, the link between violence in video games and increased aggression in players is one of the most studied and best established in the field."

Regular nights of Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto aren't going to make people more aggressive , violent or antisocial.

That's the message coming from a team of researchers in Germany who used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to scan the brains of regular gamers.

They found that long-term gamers had exactly the same neural responses to a set of emotionally provocative images as non-gamers did.

In 2014 analysis of youth violence over a 15-year period from 1996 has showed that, if anything, violent games lead to a drop in youth violence.

Study:
Lack of Evidence That Neural Empathic Responses Are Blunted in Excessive Users of Violent Video Games: An fMRI Study

While the typical pattern of activations for empathy and theory of mind networks was seen, both groups showed no differences in brain responses. We interpret our results as evidence against the desensitization hypothesis and suggest that the impact of violent media on emotional processing may be rather acute and short-lived.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...es-cause-violence_us_58f64c4ce4b0156697225316
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/do-violent-video-games-lead-to-criminal-behavior/
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/violent-video-games-not-cause-9995091

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree 100% and thank you very much for your very honest observations.

I have long believed that video games have the potential to groom certain young people who already have anger issues into taking violence action later in life.

But there is extensive research on the subject that proves otherwise.

 

[margarita25]

We investigated plenty of animal abuse without proof in order to find the proof. It's important to report it even if you have no proof yet. It gives the people in the animal welfare community a chance, at least, to investigate. I have sat in my car in the dark for hours, waiting for abusers to come out and do their thing.

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(Yep.)

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Is the US the only country with mentally ill who kill many people?

No, of course not. We've had a number of cases in the UK of schizophrenics stabbing random people in a public place. We had several incidents in Birmingham within a very few years:

1 person stabbed to death on a bus
1 teenage girl stabbed to death in a public square
2 Big Issue sellers stabbed to death in a single incident.

 

[rsd1200]

(I mentioned upstream I used to do pit bull rescue work. I worked in conjunction with the investigative animal cruelty officers aka "Animal Cops" in a very big city with a huge dogfighting, etc problem. Unfortunately, their/our hands are so often tied because we/they have to give the party an opportunity to resolve the situation (should it be no shelter, water, etc), and can only offer them a citation. Days/weeks later we/they return to see if the situation has been resolved; they have to be given this opportunity legally, and if changes have not been made upon inspection after they have been given chances, only then can there be movement for confiscating the animal(s). We/they just can not legally go in and "remove someone's property".

It will not be a big surprise to any of you that I could not mentally handle this work. The powerlessness of knowing these animals were living under horrible circumstances and there was nothing I could legally do when time was of such essence was unbearable...I could not compartmentalize and go home with it off my mind. Instead I stayed up at night thinking of ways I could go in and rescue these animals sans LE (with a baseball bat) --- These locations were often extremely dangerous, and I was told by my friends to quit or I would surely "end up dead in the trunk of someone's car". Sometimes I would even go in undercover so I could assess the environment, inquiring about puppies for sale...

Due to my sensitive, emotional nature and inability to compartmentalize, I've realized I am not suited for this type of work, rather can help in other ways. Kudos to the folks who can and do this type of work. It made me absolutely craaazzzyyy....Sorry for the O/T...)

Iirc, that day that we were at that house, one of us called the owner and LE talked to them and gave them an option of directly releasing the dog, or they'd file charges. They felt that was the quickest way to get the dog out of there. It was winter, no food, no water, and no shelter, patches of hair gone, and a rack of bones. I was honestly ticked at the neighbor b/c the dog did not get that way overnight, and then out there yelling at us. Our shelter has a skeleton crew but I have to give them credit, they work hard, and rarely ever have to euth, unless it's just for mercy.

 

[rsd1200]

Not true.....for many personality disorders there’s therapy (frequently CBT or DBT types of specific therapy) and often times medication is prescribed as well

Maybe some, but it's done nothing for my child, now a grown man. There are different types of personality disorders too. Thankfully my kid isn't violent, but is self-destructive, and it's been a very, very, long roller coaster ride. I do not know when I will get to hug my child again.