GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[Jo in Calif]

Neighbors have said she worked long hours. We don't know if it's true or not, but it's been said!!

"Neighbors said that Kimberly Holder worked hard to provide for her son but that she often had to leave the teen unsupervised at home.

“His mom works. She works long hours, and he’s not supervised as well as he should be. But mom’s a single mom,” one neighbor said."

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/24/5026216/saginaw-suspects-grandparents.html

It just seems that aside from that one thing, she works long hours and is a single mom we know nothing.
They say nothing other than that, like we have chatted, she seems nice, nothing. They say her son is a knuckle head, some are scared of him.
It just seems so odd to me, they have lived there for quite a number of years.

 

[Dora the Explorer]

I gotta side with your mom on this one. If she told them, in an age appropriate way, leaving out gruesome details ...she did you a favor. Even very young children need to learn to trust their instincts and don't have to be nice, listen to or obey every adult ( I would think a 6 yr old would view Tyler as an adult) IMO children have pretty good instincts and should be taught to trust them throughout their entire childhoods. Kids need to know there are indeed bad people in the world that would like nothing better than to steal them away forever.

All IMO.

Well, she is incapable of remembering what actually happened and what she told them was Alanna was out walking with her parents and ran ahead of them and they said "Alanna! Come back!" But she did not listen and a bad man took her and killed her. My kids are barely 4 years old and it seems too soon for anything but talking about people you can trust, the privacy of your body etc. They are too young to think of evil men lying in wait to grab them and murder them.

Before this they only knew Memaw (who they have not met) and our kitty Deacon are in heaven. Now they talk about Alanna being there too.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In order to get the court ordered child support, one would have to go to court to get it. That means lawyer costs.

That is what I am wondering. How does a person not on welfare get child support?

My husband had a business and he OFTEN got orders to take child support out of wages. If I remember correctly, it was 25% for one child?

They would whine and whine about the amount. My hubby told them they were darn lucky. He spent 100% of his income on his family. He had no sympathy whatsoever.

For 30 years I taught in low income schools. They were not filled with intact families. I got to see the tricks these guys played. Working under the table to avoid paying child support. Telling mothers they were going to take their kids away because---name your reason.

I had one child whose father, so to speak, was gunned down at age 25. In his obit, it listed 12 children by as many women.

Over the years, and I am not talking about myself as I have been married for decades, I would hear and read the things said about single mothers. Like I said, most fathers , so to speak, go on their merry way while mothers figure out a way to do it all

I've taught my son ..it's his penis...he is 100% responsible for it. Insure it. Know where you're putting it. Be very careful where you put it. Never take the word of a woman that claims to have it covered. You could still contract a disease that will ruin the rest of your life, if not kill you. Be selective. Very selective. If she gets pregnant...it's all your fault!

If I had a daughter...I'd tell her the exact same thing. It's her vagina...etc etc etc...

 

[blue22]

It just seems that aside from that one thing, she works long hours and is a single mom we know nothing.
They say nothing other than that, like we have chatted, she seems nice, nothing. They say her son is a knuckle head, some are scared of him.
It just seems so odd to me, they have lived there for quite a number of years.

It kind of makes sense to me. If she worked such long hours, she wouldn't have time or energy to chat and socialize. She had to deal with TH, as well. I would think she didn't have time for much else.

**Oh, and if you were the mother of the kid no one in the neighborhood liked or wanted to be around...would you socialize? I don't think I would! I have a feeling, she led an incredibly isolated life in that neighborhood, and maybe in all facets of her life.

 

[dandan08]

You make some great points ...BUT, are you sure, when you say the memorial was near the stop sign, that you are not thinking of the first memorial (the one that was removed) near the stop sign on the other street, where she was found?

Do we even know exactly where the second memorial spot was? ("We" may know, and "I" just don't know!)

I'm pretty sure LDH, the verified insider, said the memorial was near the stop sign at the end of the street.

EDIT - She said LG told her it was at the stop sign. Here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 01 July 2013 - #7

 

[potatoes13]

Just a few off topic points.
I raised my son as a single mom from 11 months to 12 years. He's now an awesome 20 year old, though still living at home and going to school. He never had a great relationship with his father. My husband once found an empty box of condoms in his trash but that's the worst thing we've ever found. I would be very disturbed if I found the things LE found in this SW.

Also, for other single moms, I'd just like to tell you for me, 3 and 5 were far worse than the teenage years, there is hope

 

[Backwoods]

I'm pretty sure LDH, the verified insider, said the memorial was near the stop sign at the end of the street.

EDIT - She said LG told her it was at the stop sign. Here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 01 July 2013 - #7

Thank you! Knowing that underscores the validity of the good points you made and the questions you posed.

 

[Midwestmama78]

I'm just at a place where I think he acted totally alone ....well that's my sincere hope and maybe that's clouding my opinion in a big way.

I hope you're right. The wrapping and disposal are the things that make me think someone else was involved, if only after the rape an murder.

 

[Jo in Calif]

It kind of makes sense to me. If she worked such long hours, she wouldn't have time or energy to chat and socialize. She had to deal with TH, as well. I would think she didn't have time for much else.

**Oh, and if you were the mother of the kid no one in the neighborhood liked or wanted to be around...would you socialize? I don't think I would!

Didn't we hear that she has lived there for about 5 years? Did she work long hours and leave him unattended when he was 12?
The neighbors were quite verbal about Alanna's parents, why not about her, especially after finding out he was the one that killed Alanna.
Do you suppose she worked 7 days a week? Did the neighbors ever tell her to control her 12 year old brat? Would she react to that in some way?
I just don't get it.

 

[bar2121]

You make some great points ...BUT, are you sure, when you say the memorial was near the stop sign, that you are not thinking of the first memorial (the one that was removed) near the stop sign on the other street, where she was found?

Do we even know exactly where the second memorial spot was? ("We" may know, and "I" just don't know!)

The memorial that caught fire was at the corner of babbling brook and silverbrook. It was small an consisted of a few stuffed animals and several flowers attached to the pole of the stop sign. I pass by it everyday, several times on my way home and have never seen a candle there. So I do not believe it was an accident at all!! Also lot of people have referred to this site as the second memorial which is incorrect. There were two, one at the location she was found and one at the end of her street. It did not take place of the first memorial that was removed after we had a lot of rain, it was there the whole time.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I homeschool, and I live in their area. What you have to remember, is homeschool families can teach what takes 7-8 hours in school, in 1-4 hours at home. We don't have all the nonsense and time sucks that public school has. (Waiting for class to calm down, waiting turns for all 20-25 kids, waiting in line, passing periods, class interaction takes forever, etc etc.) Kids learn very little of the day in public school. Most of the day is spent managing and tedious tasks. (Not that I'm knocking public school. I care that kids get an education, period.) If you took all the work you child does in one day of school, it would fit into probably 1/4 of the time they spend there. You might look at my son and say he runs all over the place with no over-site. In reality, he is 2 grades ahead of what he would be learning in public school, and far surpasses test scores and social maturity. Yet, we only "school" 1-3 hours a day. The rest is our time, art projects, nature learning, hanging out with friends, and learning in the real world. Also, he does math and science when dad gets off work. That leaves even more time during the day.

To be clear, I'm not getting defensive. It's just really hard for someone to understand, when you haven't homeschooled yourself. It's quality of time, not quantity of time. I have NEVER (and I know a ton) have met a homeschooling family, that just lets their kids run allover. Every so often there is a family that says "we homeschool" and really, they just don't give a crap. That is truly not often. TH's mom worked fulltime, that is NOT homeschooling. A parent is present and guiding their child's education for homeschooling, not working out of the house all day.

Ditto. As a fellow homeschooler I completely agree. So much is also self directed when your child is a teenager. They actually enjoy the learning process and go off to research all sorts of topics that they find interesting. We do a co-op on Fridays, a few online interactive courses from Landry Academy ( Sports Medicine & Crime Scene Investigation)
as well as their two day intensives and labs when in our area, chemistry and algebra I pay a tutor for. It can be a standard prepackaged curriculum or an eclectic grab from all over. He's far ahead of his public school peers. He also has an incredible amount of free time to to spend with family, friends, martial arts, pursuing other new interests as they arise. This spring he became a certified Life Guard, certified in CPR Safety and First Aide and has a full time job at a day-camp for 8 weeks. By spring, he will be 16 and able to take college courses for credit.
Homeschooling community is huge where I live. Proms, Science Fairs, dances...the whole nine yards.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I still think that holder was down when he fired his gun because of the bullet being lodged in Ladattos hip.
Holder answered the door in his pants, no shirt on, gun in waistband behind his back. Officers said they wanted to talk to him, he refused, they told him he was under arrest, he reaches back produces the gun. Officer Farrell tried to get the gun from him, I think Holder and Farrell both went down. Holder then fired his gun, hitting officer Ladatto. I think from the trajectory of that bullet it was fired in an upward angle.
Richardson fired at Holder, I think he was down and not standing.

Since they were serving papers on him they would be very close to him physically when all of this happened. I believe the officer saw him pull the gun out of his waistband from behind his back and immediately lunged at Holder trying to take the weapon away from him. Imo, while the officer was trying to gain control over the weapon Holder pulled the trigger striking the officer in his groin.

I don't think even then Holder let go (he is a big guy) and as they continued to struggle for a few seconds I believe that is when his own gun went off striking him under the chin and I do think it was in an upward trajectory.

IMO

 

[blue22]

Didn't we hear that she has lived there for about 5 years? Did she work long hours and leave him unattended when he was 12?
The neighbors were quite verbal about Alanna's parents, why not about her, especially after finding out he was the one that killed Alanna.
Do you suppose she worked 7 days a week? Did the neighbors ever tell her to control her 12 year old brat? Would she react to that in some way?
I just don't get it.

Don't know. Just throwing scenarios out there. If he was in school at 12, then he would be there most of the day. I think people not knowing her, probably has more to do with being the mother of him. People not liking him. I imagine socializing with people who don't care for your kid, wouldn't be very appealing. I'm sure it was exhausting to work a lot and deal with him, as well.

There have been no reports (that I've seen) of people saying they spoke to the mother about him. They might have, but I'm not sure anyone ever told her to control her brat. It seems like people simply stayed away.

 

[blue22]

Ditto. As a fellow homeschooler I completely agree. So much is also self directed when your child is a teenager. They actually enjoy the learning process and go off to research all sorts of topics that they find interesting. We do a co-op on Fridays, a few online interactive courses from Landry Academy ( Sports Medicine & Crime Scene Investigation)
as well as their two day intensives and labs when in our area, chemistry and algebra I pay a tutor for. It can be a standard prepackaged curriculum or an eclectic grab from all over. He's far ahead of his public school peers. He also has an incredible amount of free time to to spend with family, friends, martial arts, pursuing other new interests as they arise. This spring he became a certified Life Guard, certified in CPR Safety and First Aide and has a full time job at a day-camp for 8 weeks. By spring, he will be 16 and able to take college courses for credit.
Homeschooling community is huge where I live. Proms, Science Fairs, dances...the whole nine yards.

I'm a little scared of homeschooling a teenager. We have some years before we get there. I love hearing stories of success!! The homeschooling community here is really growing, and I love it!

 

[Ladylub]

I gotta side with your mom on this one. If she told them, in an age appropriate way, leaving out gruesome details ...she did you a favor. Even very young children need to learn to trust their instincts and don't have to be nice, listen to or obey every adult ( I would think a 6 yr old would view Tyler as an adult) IMO children have pretty good instincts and should be taught to trust them throughout their entire childhoods. Kids need to know there are indeed bad people in the world that would like nothing better than to steal them away forever.

All IMO.

I told my 5 yr old and 7 yr old. I wanted them to realize just b/c you see people in the neighborhood does not mean they are good people and should trust them. I told them that he hurt her so bad she died. I went over who in the area was okay to go to their house. Went through the houses that if something were to happen to run to. Even with her friend who lives a block away I said you are only to go over to play when her mom or dad are home. I said you know of her older siblings but you do not know them enough to hang with them by yourself. Do not get me wrong I trust these teenage siblings but I want her to understand the difference between knowing of someone and knowing them like a friend and trusting them. They had a few questions and I answered appropriately. Most of what they said was he was evil and he should know better. Oldest said in Kindergarten you learn you are not supposed to touch or hurt other people. He was way old enough to know better. I do want my kids to know evil is out there but I also want them to know that there are ways we can protect them against as many of the evil people as we can. I do not want them thinking everyone pays attention in Kindergarten and follows those rules that seem so simple to so many of us.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Since they were serving papers on him they would be very close to him physically when all of this happened. I believe the officer saw him pull the gun out of his waistband from behind his back and immediately lunged at Holder trying to take the weapon away from him. Imo, while the officer was trying to gain control over the weapon it went off striking the officer in his groin.

I don't think even then Holder let go (he is a big guy) and as they continued to struggle for a few seconds I believe that is when his own gun went off striking him under the chin and I do think it was in an upward trajectory.

IMO

If that were true, that Holder shot himself. Then officer Richardsons shot would have made a third shot, where did it hit?

 

[Texas twostep]

Maybe (no record has been found as far as I know) she had a record and knew that wouldn't look good, even if she wasn't involved. I think everyone knows the seriousness of being convicted in Texas. Especially if she's been in the system before.

Edited by me to fix any interpretation that any record has ever been found on KH. I was just surmising as to why she would lawyer up so quickly.

 

[matou]

Appreciation lunch planned for investigators of Saginaw slaying

Great idea! Saginaw is really a great place with great people!

“Taylor came in and said, ‘Mom, I think we need to have a dinner for all the police, for all the hard work they’ve put in,’” Hudspeth said.

On Monday, thanks to contributions from several area businesses, Hudspeth and her family will be providing lunch to some 300 people who were involved in Alanna’s case, including local, state and federal investigators.

The appreciation luncheon will run from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the Saginaw Recreation Center, 633 W. McLeroy Blvd.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/07/31/5044999/appreciation-lunch-planned-for.html#storylink=cpy

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Seems like TH got a thrill out of stealing small items from people and keeping them as souvenirs, useless to him for anything but gloating over. Maybe the girls and boys packaged underwear and woman's thong were stolen in residential burglaries over a period of months or years?

Or stolen from outside the home, if they were ordered online or from a catalogue, eg., although I don't know what the company would do if a customer claimed that they never received merchandise even though it was listed as having been delivered. If it happened to me (something was supposedly delivered but i didnt have it) I would assume something in the shipping had been messed up before I'd think someone had stolen it from my mailbox or porch.

 

[Flossie JMO]

Didn't we hear that she has lived there for about 5 years? Did she work long hours and leave him unattended when he was 12?
neighbors were quite verbal about Alanna's parents, why not about her, especially after finding out he was the one that killed Alanna.
Do you suppose she worked 7 days a week? Did the neighbors ever tell her to control her 12 year old brat? Would she react to that in some way?
I just don't get it.

Jmo. If she was in a poly situation, or if she had issues with weight that people could and would bash and attack her for, we would have all kinds of people talking bs. JMO