GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[greenpalm]

I can tell you that attorneys are horrendously expensive. Just getting to the first arraignment can cost $1500 or more (personal experience with my own kiddo) but making it to trial for an offense much less than TH's would have cost over $7000 more. In his case, I can't imagine how much it would cost in that second phase. Another reason people tend to take plea deals IMO.

When I was arrested, it cost me $5000 for my defense, and I was charged with a misdemeanor. In the aggravated assault case I mentioned previously about my step family, the initial consultation with the attorney was $15,000. (I have no idea what that covers, only that it's just the beginning)

Just some interesting facts I picked up from: http://www.atg.wa.gov/uploadedFiles...)/Child_Abduction_Murder_Research/CMIIPDF.pdf

5.9% of victim's bodies are found by search parties

RSBM

Well, that certainly explains why the searches for missing kids I follow here on WS so often seem so futile, and fruitless. It seems like when a child is missing, they've often been hidden very very well. When the case LE was building against Josh Powell was released, it furthered my understanding of just how little LE tells us, and just how much they have. Perps know, that without a body, it's very tough to win a conviction. Man… taxpayers lay out a load of cash on those searches. It's disheartening to see how rarely they lead to results. (Kyron Horman, Lisa Irwin, Haley Dunn)

So far, no accomplice found. I am not even sure he had an accomplice. We know he had a motorized bike. Is there anyway he could have drove that bike with a body, and not be on camera? Through the back yard or something?

I agree that he may not have had an accomplice, although I initially thought so when they said his car hadn't moved. I'm thinking differently now. But, the bike wasn't even mentioned in the search warrant, so, at the very least, we know LE isn't considering that. And, as someone else said, there are 6 foot privacy fences surrounding every yard, and no alleys. Using a bike through the backyard isn't possible. Any gates in and out would gain access to only one yard at a time, from the front. But I'm leaning away from an accomplice now too.

When did he tell his friend about running away and killing himself? Before or after he killed Alanna?

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...oubled-that-accused-killer-was-a-neighbor.ece

The way I read it, it was after the murder. That's sure what it sounded like to me.

I stand corrected: asked my hub & he said most LE carry .40 or .45. It's military that has 9 mm. Sorry about that!

I think maybe it depends? My mom carried a glock 9 mm

My husband said LE usually carry a 9mm. But it depends. I mentioned earlier that I did a google image search for facial injuries from a 9mm. Not for the weak hearted or stomached… but his face could be pretty mangled, but based on the images I saw, it could vary quite a bit…. We shall see.

I have a question, In the SW for the house that also included any vehicles including but not limited to a 2012 Kia Soul.
Then there was a separate SW to search the Kia, that it may contain evidence of capital murder.
In the arrest warrant it listed the Dodge magnum as Tylers Vehicle.
Why would there be a separate SW for the Kia and not for the Dodge, if the Dodge were Tyler's vehicle? It also did not seem to be anything taken from the Dodge. Wasn't the Kia the moms car?

This is a good question.

I'd say "LE knows the Magnum didn't leave the house that day," but that would imply they don't also know the same thing about the Kia?

Mom worked that day or not...? Do we know for sure? Because, of course, if so, she likely drove to work.

I agree, it has to be because the Kia left the house at least once that day, (MOO) We don't know what they have on those tapes of the Kia. Maybe it left and returned more than once. We don't know much about KH's typical schedule. We only know that TH's car didn't leave. We know that the black cars lingered, but shoot! those could have been cleared by now, yet LE wouldn't feel the need to come tell us necessarily! So the facts are few.

 

[greenpalm]

I so hope the paternity papers do not mean he is a father.

What does it mean to be arrested with drug paraphernalia? What would he have?

It is interesting, that we know of as we do not know what the liquids are, that no drugs were taken from the home.

That really surprises me.

If we go with the theory that he thought he'd gotten his DNA off of her, however naively, then perhaps he did toss the drugs in anticipation of a future search? Meaning, he thought he was going to get away with the murder, but when LE came to the door the first time he flushed it all. Maybe he used up his supply over the 21 days.
The fact that the search warrant didn't list drugs specifically, would suggest that Alanna's tox screening did not show evidence of drugs in her system, otherwise, they'd be looking for them, and they'd be listed on the warrant. My understanding of the law is that, as long as the officers conducting the search are lawfully searching for the items on the warrant, evidence of other crimes discovered in that process may also be seized. So, I guess they didn't find any drugs. Interesting.

 

[greenpalm]

Something keeps bugging me. If the gpa had not seen nor had any contact with TH or his mom since TH was 6, why would he have wondered if his grandson had involvement in this case? Thats really bugging me.

EXCELLENT question!

1. did he know where he lived (w/o having contact for a decade before)?

2. what previous circumstances known to someone out of the picture for the last 10'ish years would make them immediately suspect their own grandchild?

I am guessing Grandpa followed TH on FB and/or knew of other juvenile offenses he committed. What's going on with the gunfire? Crap, I may have to start taking Bailey Boswell and steering far, far clear of that street.

Yeah, that was one tweet, and it didn't make it into any written articles that I've read, so maybe it was a weak quote to begin with, but I think it's very possible Grandpa was curious and followed TH's actions as best he could through social media and any mutual friends or family. My brother and I are estranged, (I've tried to make amends, but bro isn't interested) but I read his blog, and my dad keeps me up to date on his family. If my bro has a FB account, he has blocked me from seeing it. But since we could see TH's FB, gramps probably could too.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Additionally... I believe I read some family members of AG gave blood for the LE that was shot while apprehending TH...

I feel that is so very thoughtful at a time when the family is feeling such pain...

:grouphug:

It is very thoughtful but I wonder if guidelines for accepting blood donations have recently changed. Certain lifestyles and medications can preclude a person from being able to donate blood, or at least it used to be that way.

My friend and his husband were not allowed to donate blood when the marathon bombings happened. .

Oh! I see though, that it says family; so it could be extended. Sorry!

 

[greenpalm]

Apparently I'm the only one awake in the middle of the night, I caught up, now you've got several posts in a row of my musings.

I'm assuming the Holder home is the crime scene, although I acknowledge other posters think there are other possibilities. So, how did she get from point A to Point B?

In the Kia - we discussed the possibility, that KH showered when she got home and he did it very quickly while she showered. That would explain the potentially hasty disposal. (Although, I still think TH may have chosen that spot spontaneously when he saw garbage still out, and he thought she would be picked up by the garbage truck. I'm not certain.) Could he have given KH some other reason for needing to drive the Kia on a quick errand, and she didn't question it. I've seen both cars parked in the driveway on news footage, but, an unverified local has told us Tyler was known for sitting in his garage, so maybe there was room for a car. (i.e. the garage wasn't full of boxes) Perhaps Alanna was in the garage, and he pulled the Kia in and loaded her, while Mom was still in the house, but without her seeing.

In the Ford Edge - lines 90, and 91 on the search warrant. We know the address is on Babbling Brook and we know the owner's name for this vehicle. We don't know why there was a key to this vehicle in the Holder home. I'm trying to work out a theory in which this vehicle is used to transport Alanna to where she was found on Roundrock and Cindy. We know that during the road blocks in the neighborhood, LE was asking about a dark colored minivan or SUV. The Edge seems to sort of fit that category, isn't it a crossover? Yet, although neighbors told reporters that LE was asking about a dark minivan, LE, denied it.

Parker told CBS 11 News the FBI agent told him a Chrysler Pacifica mini-van, which looked like the one he was driving at the time, was seen on home security video driving on Alanna Gallagher’s street.

Saginaw police, however; told CBS 11 News investigators are not looking for a vehicle by that description.

http://worldnewsviews.com/2013/07/18/saginaw-family-files-complaint-against-police-department/

In addition to the red pick up police say is connected to the case, investigators are asking about a dark-colored mini-van.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/07/11/vigil-held-in-memory-of-alanna-gallagher/

If the owner still lives on Babbling Brook, and if he still owns the vehicle, surely LE has spoken to him, but we haven't seen a search warrant for that vehicle, yet. It's been several days since the initial search on the 23, and 24.

I haven't been able to get anywhere, postable via TOS, or otherwise by searching for info on that car or owner. I may have found a linked in account for the owner, but it doesn't get me anything. I was hoping to at least determine if that person RC still lives at that address. Why haven't the media tracked RC down and tried to interview him? We can't be the only folks who are wondering about that vehicle and the key. Obviously it was seized in the search for a reason. Could LE be keeping something quiet again? If so, what and why? Is it possible they found and searched the vehicle days ago with the owner's permission? Gitana1 explained to us earlier in this case, that they would have had a search warrant for searching Alanna's home, even if they had the family's permission to search. So, I would assume the same would hold true for searching a vehicle, which leads me to conclude they haven't searched it.

One of the black cars - we know only that they lingered. We know nothing else. If either of These two cars were used they would have to involve an accomplice who drove in one of them to Tyler's home and then helped either knowingly or unknowingly, but either way, that person surely knows by now what they were involved in. And further, we don't know if the driver/owner of either or both of these vehicles have now spoken with LE. They may have been cleared, or still helping and LE simply doesn't deem it urgent to tell the press.

The red truck with green paint - this seems to have dropped off the radar entirely. The news stories aren't even mentioning it anymore. Perhaps it never showed up on the surveillance footage, and was therefore ruled out. On the other hand, they could still be looking for it. But I doubt it, since they didn't show us any photos of it. I'm guessing the reason they looked for it initially is because at the very beginning of the case, someone or multiple folks they spoke with said they'd seen a truck of that description driving slowly, or looking out of place.


Whatever vehicle was used, it's on one of those surveillance tapes. There are only a finite number of possibilities.

 

[greenpalm]

The arrest warrant states TH's car never left Babbling Brook Drive that day, not his house. In theory he could have drove the body to any other house on the street and straight into the garage, any one of the houses before the security camera's is a possibility. I don't think this happened at all, i'm just saying it's possible.

Also the warrant for TH's cellphone states there is evidence of Capital Murder on it. Either text messages and/or photographs, call records related to the defendant and/or other unidentified victim(s) or suspect(s).

What's peoples thought on this? If there are pictures of the crime then surely LE would have seen it when they found the hose pipe picture, assuming it's the same phone, although I guess TH could have changed the memory card. That leads me to believe an unidentified suspect has been contacted either through text message or from the call records. Also what's so important about the hose pipe picture? Why did LE take 3 pieces of garden hose seen in the search warrant?

I'm going to assume they have reason to believe he used the hose in the crime. There may have been hose pieces in the garbage bag with Alanna, or, as I have stated earlier, they may have found photographs of the crime that he posted on the Internet somewhere. <shudder>, or they may have found trace evidence on Alanna that lead them to search for hose, particularly given that they had seen that photo earlier. We also know that Alanna was wet with an unknow liquid, could it have just been water from a hose? Did he hose her off?

(An aside: Did anyone notice there is a yellow garden hose in the Google Streetview photo of the Holder's home? It's on the ground right outside the open door of the white car.)

I think the search warrant is saying they are seizing the phone because it is capable of storing evidence of Capitol Murder, not because they KNOW it is storing that evidence, but I want to re-read that part.

 

[dandan08]

I think the search warrant is saying they are seizing the phone because it is capable of storing evidence of Capitol Murder, not because they KNOW it is storing that evidence, but I want to re-read that part.

rsbm

Maybe, but it states "And affiant has good reason to believe and does believe that the following property and item(s) <snipped> contains evidence of Capital Murder.

There are numerous other phones taken in the search warrant, but none have a seperate warrant saying they believe contain evidence of Capital Murder.

 

[skibaboo]

Could the 'evidence of capital murder' be the hose? It's a horrible thought.. What I'm thinking would depend on when the photo was seen by LE on TH's phone, and what the ME had determined by then. I don't want to say it, unknown liquid all over the body and clothing, could she have been hosed down, ugh... inside and out with some type of bleach concoction in an attempt to destroy evidence?

 

[Backwoods]

rsbm

Maybe, but it states "And affiant has good reason to believe and does believe that the following property and item(s) <snipped> contains evidence of Capital Murder.

There are numerous other phones taken in the search warrant, but none have a seperate warrant saying they believe contain evidence of Capital Murder.

bbm: Assuming the warrant phone is the same phone that Tyler had given them permission to examine before, I think one reason it has a separate warrant is because they knew of its existence, description, etc. -- other phones, they may not have had this info about before encountering them in the house search, etc.

But yes, also, I think this sounds as if they hope to link something seen on the phone (or otherwise known to have been on the phone or to have originated from the phone) directly with Alanna's murder. It may BE the hose picture, and the "link" might be as simple as showing sexual proclivities that in some way were reflected in the crime.

One other possibility I thought of is that TH might have sent something -- text, picture, whatever -- regarding the murder: a message regarding his need for help to dispose of the body (maybe not straight-out, in those words, but perhaps a cryptic call for assistance at a time that would fit), maybe something reflecting his state of mind. It is even possible that they have found and interrogated someone who received such a transmission.

I'm not really convinced he had an accomplice. Could be, though.

 

[Backwoods]

The fact that the search warrant didn't list drugs specifically, would suggest that Alanna's tox screening did not show evidence of drugs in her system, otherwise, they'd be looking for them, and they'd be listed on the warrant. My understanding of the law is that, as long as the officers conducting the search are lawfully searching for the items on the warrant, evidence of other crimes discovered in that process may also be seized. So, I guess they didn't find any drugs. Interesting.

<respectfully snipped> and bbm: That's my understanding, too. What I am not sure about is, if drugs were found and seized under those circumstances, whether they would be listed on the warrant return...? Maybe they would be catalogued/accounted for separately, since they are not items the warrant authorized the search for.

 

[Backwoods]

Apparently I'm the only one awake in the middle of the night, I caught up, now you've got several posts in a row of my musings.

<respectfully snipped>

That's quite all right with me, greenpalm -- especially since they were all jam-packed with a lot of good food for thought. Lots to mull over.

 

[SCHMAE]

I think if drugs were seized, there would be additional charges for those. Moo

 

[Backwoods]

I think if drugs were seized, there would be additional charges for those. Moo

Yes, I think that's likely, also -- and they may yet be forthcoming. They know he's not going anywhere.

 

[tehcloser]

Penic said Holder, who was handcuffed and bleeding from the nose and mouth after being shot beneath the chin, was not cooperative, spitting at firefighters trying to take care of him.
Lodatto looked gray from extreme blood loss &#8212; a bad sign &#8212; so he was transported out of the house first.
&#8220;I&#8217;ve seen worse,&#8221; Penic said. &#8220;But I was very concerned.&#8221;

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...gton-officers-life-after-saginaw-shootout.ece

 

[SilkySifaka]

Thank you, yes, I haven't got anything new for a while. My mom thinks it is a sensitivity to strawberries!

It may be to the pesticide used on the strawberries. I have that, can eat most strawberries fine but if its a batch with a certain pesticide i hive up

 

[greenpalm]

<respectfully snipped> and bbm: That's my understanding, too. What I am not sure about is, if drugs were found and seized under those circumstances, whether they would be listed on the warrant return...? Maybe they would be catalogued/accounted for separately, since they are not items the warrant authorized the search for.

Yes, good question. I don't know why it would be listed elsewhere, or omitted from the list.

What are the reasons the list is released to the public in the first place? Why are they a matter of public record?

Knowing that they can be sealed, can they be partially sealed? I bet Gitana1 would know.

 

[Midwestmama78]

Penic said Holder, who was handcuffed and bleeding from the nose and mouth after being shot beneath the chin, was not cooperative, spitting at firefighters trying to take care of him.
Lodatto looked gray from extreme blood loss — a bad sign — so he was transported out of the house first.
“I’ve seen worse,” Penic said. “But I was very concerned.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/crim...gton-officers-life-after-saginaw-shootout.ece

This is very interesting.

First of all, I am so glad that there were extra personnel available that day, that Lodatto received excellent care at the scene and that he is doing well. These first responders deserve our thanks and respect for the job they do under tremendous pressure.

Second, I am amazed at the report that TH was awake, uncooperative and spitting at firefighters after he had been shot. The phrase "shot in the head" or even "shot in the chin" conjure up mental pictures of someone in no condition to react at all. I just assumed TH was unconscious from his gunshot injury. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I'm wondering if the chin shot could have been as minor as a glancing or even grazing blow across the underside of the chin, not much of an injury at all?

But then we have later reports that he was in critical and then serious condition. Hmmmm. Thoughts, anyone? Am I missing something obvious?

 

[skibaboo]

This is very interesting.

First of all, I am so glad that there were extra personnel available that day, that Lodatto received excellent care at the scene and that he is doing well. These first responders deserve our thanks and respect for the job they do under tremendous pressure.

Second, I am amazed at the report that TH was awake, uncooperative and spitting at firefighters after he had been shot. The phrase "shot in the head" or even "shot in the chin" conjure up mental pictures of someone in no condition to react at all. I just assumed TH was unconscious from his gunshot injury. Since that doesn't seem to be the case, I'm wondering if the chin shot could have been as minor as a glancing or even grazing blow across the underside of the chin, not much of an injury at all?

But then we have later reports that he was in critical and then serious condition. Hmmmm. Thoughts, anyone? Am I missing something obvious?

Re the earlier discussion about TH's condition and injuries. I spent a while today looking for the video of TH being put into the ambulance that I had seen that day. FWIW he appears to be conscious when put into the ambulance, his hand does seem to be cuffed to the side of the stretcher. Once inside the ambulance the other arm moves around a lot and it looks like he puts his hand to his face and he also looks like he is trying to get up. I noted blood on the lower part of his face.

Video titled 'Officer, murder suspect shot' On page 4 of the slider - starts at about the 1:45 mark.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/229098...od-shots-fired

Quoting myself here. You can clearly see him flailing about in the back of the ambulance in the video I mention. I'm unsure if this means his condition is underplayed or if it was shock/result of injury and his condition deteriorated. I'm starting to think he was not as seriously injured as first thought.

 

[Midwestmama78]

Quoting myself here. You can clearly see him flailing about in the back of the ambulance in the video I mention. I'm unsure if this means his condition is underplayed or if it was shock/result of injury and his condition deteriorated. I'm starting to think he was not as seriously injured as first thought.

Exactly.

bbm

 

[Midwestmama78]

I should also say that I could not view the videos others have talked about with TH moving around on the gurney so I couldn't judge anything from that.