GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[kkdj]

I think it would matter. The person who suffocated Alanna would charged with 1st degree murder. The other person would be charged with something else, depending on what he did and what exactly happened. But I don't think they could charge them both with 1st degree of murder unless they had proof that they both actually murdered Alanna. LE would need to determine who did what.

But TH is charged with it. They must have evidence to charge him. If there were an accomplice to the murder......ugh. but they must have evidence at least TH murdered her.
Im so sickened thinking about this!
Was there an accomplice in her murder???

 

[kkdj]

What was Tyler's mother supposed to be doing?? LE would not let her see her son and they would not let her stay at the hospital.

She may have closed her FB account because she didn't want to see any kind of messages, be they caring or nasty, from her FB friends. She couldn't go home because there was a search going on. Maybe she was just trying to keep herself from going completely crazy.

If it were my child, shot in the face, arrested for the murder and rape of a little girl......I would be going nuts!!!!!! Then more charges to kill a cop! I would fricken be going nuts!!!
Jmo
I would want to take care of my child. Cant help that maternal instinct. Would I want him loose and free. Hell no! But I would still, as his mother, want to do what was best for him, under the circumstances. Jmo

 

[CHERIE.T]

I took a couple of screenshots if it will help. One of his arms, one of when he puts his hand to his face. Sorry I couldn't get better it happened so fast.

Someone help me out....:seeya:
What am I suppose to see in these screenshots?
How can we tell who that is?
Thanks

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think it would matter. The person who suffocated Alanna would charged with 1st degree murder. The other person would be charged with something else, depending on what he did and what exactly happened. But I don't think they could charge them both with 1st degree of murder unless they had proof that they both actually murdered Alanna. LE would need to determine who did what.

If a person dies while committing a felony it qualifies for first degree.

Example 2 men rob a bank while the 3rd waits in the getaway car. One shoots and kills a teller. They are all guilty of felony murder in the first degree.

 

[Brightbird]

If a person dies while committing a felony it qualifies for first degree.

Example 2 men rob a bank while the 3rd waits in the getaway car. One shoots and kills a teller. They are all guilty of felony murder in the first degree.

I suppose if TH and an accomplice took Alanna with the intent to rape, committed the rape, after which TH left her alone with the accomplice who murdered her without TH's knowledge - maybe then TH wouldn't have committed murder? Of course, I wouldn't believe that for one second and I don't think any court would. TH had a clear motive for murder once he assaulted her. I'm on the fence as to whether there even was an accomplice. Ugh.

 

[greenpalm]

If a person dies while committing a felony it qualifies for first degree.

Example 2 men rob a bank while the 3rd waits in the getaway car. One shoots and kills a teller. They are all guilty of felony murder in the first degree.

We don't technically have "first degree" murder here in Texas. Instead we call it "Capitol Murder." Tyler has been charged with Capitol Murder, even though he is 17 and therefore not eligible for the death penalty, the charge is given the same name.

Texas First Degree Murder Laws
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-first-degree-murder-laws.html

And yes, both parties are charged under those conditions. Here's a case where the wife who drove the getaway car was also charged with Capitol Murder, even though her husband pulled the trigger: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...in-deaths-of-texas-da-wife-and-assistant?lite

 

[greenpalm]

I suppose if TH and an accomplice took Alanna with the intent to rape, committed the rape, after which TH left her alone with the accomplice who murdered her without TH's knowledge - maybe then TH wouldn't have committed murder? Of course, I wouldn't believe that for one second and I don't think any court would. TH had a clear motive for murder once he assaulted her. I'm on the fence as to whether there even was an accomplice. Ugh.

:fence: I'm on the fence about the accomplice too. I'm rarely ever on the fence. This is the one reason my interest has been held in this case, even after the arrest. I want to know how he did it. Either he used a vehicle other than his own, or he had an accomplice. Even if he moved her to a second location before committing the crime, he had to get her there without being seen. (although, actually, moving her alive to another location would classify as a crime in and of itself.)

If he did use another car, or an accomplice, what was his motivation to do so. Was he trying to cover up the crime by leaving his car in the driveway? I guess we really have to go with the theory that he thought either 1. He'd successfully removed his DNA from her or 2. He thought she would not be found because the garbage truck would pick her up because he placed her there with that intent or 3. He thought she would not be found because his accomplice was going to hide her body better than they did and he was surprised that she was discovered.

But if he was trying to cover up the crime, then why did he tell people it was her before LE revealed that? And if he was trying to cover it up, why leave her out in the open (sort of) why wear a "wanted" t-shirt to the funeral (was it the funeral or the vigil/memorial or both? I guess it doesn't matter)

It's just such a mixed bag of signals. He made efforts to conceal the crime, but he wanted to be in the midst of the fallout that followed it. I think he really did think he was going to get away with it, which leads me back to him not having an accomplice because that's risky if you don't want to get caught. See? :fence:

 

[IBsleuthin]

I think he will talk. He has a lot of self loathing, so I think he will want to get it off of his chest. He may be prevented to do so by his mother and attorneys.

I wonder if the mother is in the house? If she can't stand to live there, I can't imagine that anyone could stand to live there. It must be a horrifying nightmare for people to look at that house.

The town of Saginaw should tear it down and make it a flower garden.

 

[IBsleuthin]

:fence: I'm on the fence about the accomplice too. I'm rarely ever on the fence. This is the one reason my interest has been held in this case, even after the arrest. I want to know how he did it. Either he used a vehicle other than his own, or he had an accomplice. Even if he moved her to a second location before committing the crime, he had to get her there without being seen. (although, actually, moving her alive to another location would classify as a crime in and of itself.)

If he did use another car, or an accomplice, what was his motivation to do so. Was he trying to cover up the crime by leaving his car in the driveway? I guess we really have to go with the theory that he thought either 1. He'd successfully removed his DNA from her or 2. He thought she would not be found because the garbage truck would pick her up because he placed her there with that intent or 3. He thought she would not be found because his accomplice was going to hide her body better than they did and he was surprised that she was discovered.

But if he was trying to cover up the crime, then why did he tell people it was her before LE revealed that? And if he was trying to cover it up, why leave her out in the open (sort of) why wear a "wanted" t-shirt to the funeral (was it the funeral or the vigil/memorial or both? I guess it doesn't matter)

It's just such a mixed bag of signals. He made efforts to conceal the crime, but he wanted to be in the midst of the fallout that followed it. I think he really did think he was going to get away with it, which leads me back to him not having an accomplice because that's risky if you don't want to get caught. See? :fence:

1). We are assuming his vehicle runs.

2). We are assuming he has a valid driver's license.

3). We are assuming he was sober when all of this happened.


4). We are assuming he thought about this logically.

5). We are assuming he was with and along for the ride when she was dropped off in the intersection. He may have never left the house.



What we know:


She was last seen alive relatively close to her own home.

She was found dead in a manner obvious to murder and someone placed her there.

The evidence found on her that we can read about in SW indicates that TH is responsible for her murder.

LE has publicly stated there is a likelihood that there was an accomplice but nothing else has been released.


~~~~~~~


We need to know for certain, IF the boys that found her MOVED her and if so HOW FAR.

 

[greenpalm]

The town of Saginaw should tear it down and make it a flower garden.

The house in Arlington where my classmate was murdered in 1984 is still standing there. I assume someone lives in it. It is hard to fathom.

 

[IBsleuthin]

The house in Arlington where my classmate was murdered in 1984 is still standing there. I assume someone lives in it. It is hard to fathom.

I could not.

But then I think houses retain the energy, (good or bad) of it's previous owner's.


BUT, if you didn't know what had happened there, you wouldn't know? I don't know.

I recall reading some article a couple of months ago where a couple bought a house and then found out a murder had taken place there and I think they sued the realtor for lack of full disclosure. Don't quote me, I wasn't paying attention. :blushing:

 

[IBsleuthin]

Can we find anywhere that TH has a valid driver's license?

I'm thinking because he's a juvenile this isn't public?

As in, does he have a DUI and can't legally drive?

 

[greenpalm]

1). We are assuming his vehicle runs.

Yes, I am assuming that.

2). We are assuming he has a valid driver's license.

I don't think we are assuming that, nor do we have to. I doubt not having a license would stop him from driving, if he wanted to, after all the other laws he's broken.

3). We are assuming he was sober when all of this happened.

No, why?

4). We are assuming he thought about this logically.

I'm not assuming he thought about it according to my logic. I am assuming he was trying to conceal the crime, because otherwise, why wrap and relocate her body at all, why not just leave her in his home for mom to find when she got there. Or if you go with the theory that the home is not the crime scene, why commit the crime at a concealed location. I think we can conclude he was trying to conceal it.

5). We are assuming he was with and along for the ride when she was dropped off in the intersection. He may have never left the house.

No, I'm not. Even my above example that you quoted allows for him to have been "surprised" that she was not dumped in a more secluded spot.

What we know:


She was last seen alive relatively close to her own home.

She was found dead in a manner obvious to murder and someone placed her there.

The evidence found on her that we can read about in SW indicates that TH is responsible for her murder.

LE has publicly stated there is a likelihood that there was an accomplice but nothing else has been released.

Did they really say there was a likelihood? Or did they simply say they were investigating that possibility? I know that's splitting hairs, but still, there's a difference. Also, this could be a reporter interpreting the answer to his own question.
"Did he have an accomplice?" Wherein police responded,

"we're investigating all possibilities."

I need to go back and read those bots again.

~~~~~~~

We need to know for certain, IF the boys that found her MOVED her and if so HOW FAR.

I am of the opinion that they did not move her. But let's assume they did, what would that tell us?

 

[greenpalm]

Can we find anywhere that TH has a valid driver's license?

I'm thinking because he's a juvenile this isn't public?

As in, does he have a DUI and can't legally drive?

Really good question. I'm guessing sealed because he's a juvenile?

 

[CHERIE.T]

Where is the alleged accomplice?
Anymore police searches in AG's neighborhood?
Anyone know if all DNA results at in?
Imo

 

[IBsleuthin]

Yes, I am assuming that.



I don't think we are assuming that, nor do we have to. I doubt not having a license would stop him from driving, if he wanted to, after all the other laws he's broken.



No, why?



I'm not assuming he thought about it according to my logic. I am assuming he was trying to conceal the crime, because otherwise, why wrap and relocate her body at all, why not just leave her in his home for mom to find when she got there. Or if you go with the theory that the home is not the crime scene, why commit the crime at a concealed location. I think we can conclude he was trying to conceal it.



No, I'm not. Even my above example that you quoted allows for him to have been "surprised" that she was not dumped in a more secluded spot.





Did they really say there was a likelihood? Or did they simply say they were investigating that possibility? I know that's splitting hairs, but still, there's a difference. Also, this could be a reporter interpreting the answer to his own question.
"Did he have an accomplice?" Wherein police responded,

"we're investigating all possibilities."

I need to go back and read those bots again.

~~~~~~~




I am of the opinion that they did not move her. But let's assume they did, what would that tell us?

All of these are excellent answers. I was just trying to stimulate conversation more than anything I guess.

 

[greenpalm]

Did they really say there was a likelihood? Or did they simply say they were investigating that possibility? I know that's splitting hairs, but still, there's a difference. Also, this could be a reporter interpreting the answer to his own question.
"Did he have an accomplice?" Wherein police responded,

"we're investigating all possibilities."

I need to go back and read those quotes again.

Okay, quoting myself again here :iamashamed:

I found this quote:

Law enforcement sources say investigators are actively looking for a possible second person in connection with the case. Surveillance video shows that Holder's pickup truck never left his house the day Gallagher disappeared.

it was here: http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Gallagher-Slaying-Suspect-May-Have-Had-Accomplice-216698261.html

This article says he drove a pick-up truck. How accurate can the rest of it be?


Then there's a direct quote from Ing:

When asked if police were searching for an accomplice in the murder of Alanna Gallagher, Saginaw police spokesman Damon Ing said the probe continues even after an arrest warrant for capital murder was issued for the Saginaw teenager.
"Of course Mr. Holder was a suspect in this case," he said. "But, just anytime in law enforcement all together, we're never going to stop looking for any other possibilities. We're going to continue our investigation; our investigation is far from over. "

. That's from here: http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news?fId=216795321&fPath=/news/local/&fDomain=10247

That sounds quite a bit less certain that there's an accomplice.

 

[IBsleuthin]

~~~~~~~




I am of the opinion that they did not move her. But let's assume they did, what would that tell us?

RSBM


When I very first looked at the overhead of Cindy Lane intersection with the tarp still lying there, my first impression was that there were at the least two people involved.

I got this impression because of the way the tarp was laying. It looked very clear to me that someone had calmly and calculatedly pulled up to the stop sign and then another person, perhaps located in a back seat or rear area of a van, had opened the door and just quietly slid her right out onto the street, then they pulled away.

I remember posting then, ..."I think they need to look for 2 people".

I'll go try to find that post.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Am I invisible? :rockon:

 

[IBsleuthin]

07-12-2013, 08:09 AM
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I think they might want to look for two suspects.