GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #6

[texashello]

I'm local, I'm a mom, I know some Saginaw LE and they are wonderful but I want to know who took this precious baby girl!

 

[CatFancier]

I have three family/friends who have been murdered over the years. None of them were super close to me but of course I knew them. What I have seen with their direct family members doesn't match when you see the desperation of family with a missing person.

If my child was missing, I'd be everywhere where someone would listen to me to do whatever it took to get them home. When you have them home deceased, I don't know that it matters as much to the parent or adult child or whatever (comparatively) that justice is served. Many of my family members have stated they have to forgive or let it go because the negativity of it in an ongoing way taints their memories of their loved ones.

The closest family member to me who was murdered remains an open and unsolved case and it just is to the family. He's buried, they have a place to visit, they had a way to grieve. But finding his killer is not high on the list of things for them (of course, it has been 25 years). They still call LE twice a year to see if there has been anything new but honestly, he's gone and finding and punishing that person isn't going to bring him back.

I have a feeling this sounds like it doesn't matter and IT DOES. But compared to putting your faces out there to find a missing Alanna, I don't see it the same way.

 

[human]

This is copied from Foxfire on another post on WS

A 19 year old case solved with DNA match

DNA sample leads to arrest in John Snyder Jr. murder (1994 cold case)

Mason City(IA) Police and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation have made an arrest in a 19-year-old murder case thanks to DNA profiling.

Michael Jason Cisneros, 37, formerly of Mason City, has been charged with first-degree murder in the July 1994 death of 20-month-old John Joseph Snyder Jr.

At the time of the boy’s death, the boy’s father John Snyder Sr. told police that he and his son, John Jr., sat outside their home at 10 S. Adams Ave. and watched a thunderstorm on the evening of July 19, 1994.

Snyder reported his son missing early the next morning. The baby was found dead July 21, snagged on a tree in Willow Creek in northeast Mason City.

http://www.kaaltv.com/article/storie...html?cat=10218

At a Monday news conference, Mason City Police Chief Michael Lashbrook said Cisneros was identified as a suspect through a DNA sample he gave when he was transported to the Iowa Medical and Classification Center in Oakdale in 2012. The match was flagged in the state’s database in January 2013. The match was found on a DNA sample on the boy’s pajamas, according to police.

DNA collected at the time provided evidence that resulted in the arrest of Michael Jason Cisneros last Friday.

The DNA technology done in 1994 was not able to determine a profile.

Cisneros was required to provide a DNA sample in December of last year after being convicted of a felony in Iowa.

Subsequent matching of the DNA in the national database turned up Cisneros as a match.

 

[CatFancier]

This reminds me, earlier I was wondering about all the unsolved child disappearances/murders. Which column do those go in, in terms of family/non-family? Do they not get counted at all? Would the numbers look scarier if unsolved/no body cases were counted? If the family gets fully cleared (does LE ever fully rule out any family in absence of perp?), does the abduction go in the "stranger" column even without a suspect?

I think it does. The cases that come to mind for me are all the girls in the Killing Fields. I think it's fairly accepted that they are stranger abductions even though the only thing really linking them is geography.

 

[human]

I have to ask, and this is in general

I would much rather see the killer be a family member , rather than some unknown whack job.

Why do people hope that it is an unknown whack job over a family member?

 

[IBsleuthin]

I think since Alanna was found murdered, if her parents were doing the media rounds, there would would be a lot of criticism of them. People would wonder why they are on TV so soon after hearing that their child was found dead, if LE says it an isolated case, why are they talking to the public/media, etc. I think people don't expect the parents of a murdered child to constantly be giving interviews and there would be some eyebrow-raising if they were.

That and some people are simply "The police have it handled" type of people.

We have a case here locally and I have sincerely tried a couple of times to help them with some of the knowledge I have both from real life experience and what I have learned through research.

Each and every time they reply with "The police have it handled." (they are also a little bit arrogant in their replies). So I ended up thinking, FINE. Forget it.

Everyone handles this stuff differently.

I can also add here that the EGOS and instant self-defense mode some folks go into when you even suggest that LE look in a different place or think of something else is overwhelming.

You get an email back that says, "My grandfather was a police officer for 30 years and HOW DARE YOU suggest they aren't doing their jobs!" (Which of course I never did once suggest but these folks are interpreting in their own way).


Mostly I'm posting this to keep this thread active because it's nauseating to me that a little girl is murdered and then dumped in the street like trash and two weeks later it's just a non-news topic.

 

[IBsleuthin]

And you wouldn't ask for assistance in finding missing clothing if the clothing wasn't missing.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

This reminds me, earlier I was wondering about all the unsolved child disappearances/murders. Which column do those go in, in terms of family/non-family? Do they not get counted at all? Would the numbers look scarier if unsolved/no body cases were counted? If the family gets fully cleared (does LE ever fully rule out any family in absence of perp?), does the abduction go in the "stranger" column even without a suspect?

Ernie Allen, the president of NCMEC, said this about Kyron's case:

Although hundreds of thousands of children are reported missing every year, about 115 are cases in which a child is abducted by a stranger and killed, held for ransom or taken for another reason. Kyron's case, though still unsolved, falls in this category, said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.

I have absolutely no idea how Kyron is in that category. His case is unsolved, and the main theory seems to be that his stepmom is involved. LE has given no indication they are looking for some anonymous predator. Ever since I heard that quote, it really made me wonder how they are classifying these cases.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I have to ask, and this is in general

I would much rather see the killer be a family member , rather than some unknown whack job.

Why do people hope that it is an unknown whack job over a family member?

For me, because I can empathize with and, to a certain extent, identify with the family. I've read the Mom's journal and I have a few things in common with them on the nerd/geek/tech job spectrum, plus friends and relatives in the SCA. I've admitted since early on that this gives me a certain amount of bias towards hoping they are cleared, non-traditional family unit and all.

Another way to put it: many posters, after following a case, start speaking about the victim as though they know/knew them. I feel that way about the family. Again, mostly from skimming social media. They seem like good people, despite not fitting certain social norms. It'll break my heart if they prove me wrong.

On the flip side, why do people hope it was the family?

 

[cluciano63]

I think the witness who found her body meant he realized that "it"-what he first thought was a bag of garbage-was in fact a girl. I don't think he meant to call her "it".

 

[CatFancier]

I have to ask, and this is in general

I would much rather see the killer be a family member , rather than some unknown whack job.

Why do people hope that it is an unknown whack job over a family member?

I think there are plenty of whack jobs out there and I'd rather see it be one of those, then taken off the street than to imagine family could do something so horrific.

Family is valued in our society.

And, in my experience with my own family/friends, it was a whack job each and every time. One was solved, the female member still unsolved but suspected victim of a serial killer and the third that I mentioned upthread was passing a bar when he was stabbed. It is suspected he may have made a comment to somebody who was drunk and got killed.

 

[human]

The family has a relationship with a child. It is personal.

I forget the reasons given for the killing of a child by a family member, but it is because of the relationship. Not that it is OK, but it's about them, not my child.

If it's a whack job, -anyone is at risk and they can strike anywhere at anytime. I hope there are not a lot of them around.

It is tempting to identify with people based on some characteristics. I travel a lot in foreign countries and. one of the things to know is just because someone speaks English, that does not make them a good person. Not that they may not be a good person. It is so easy to assign goodness to people that you feel that you bond with over some things.

 

[CatFancier]

The family has a relationship with a child. It is personal.

I forget the reasons given for the killing of a child by a family member, but it is because of the relationship. Not that it is OK, but it's about them, not my child.

If it's a whack job, -anyone is at risk and they can strike anywhere at anytime. I hope there are not a lot of them around.

It is tempting to identify with people based on some characteristics. I travel a lot in foreign countries and. one of the things to know is just because someone speaks English, that does not make them a good person. Not that they may not be a good person. It is so easy to assign goodness to people that you feel that you bond with over some things.

It seems to me when there is family involved in a lot of these cases, the remains are buried or secreted away. Dumping in the middle of the street just doesn't work for me with family. Even if the family member was one of those whack jobs, there should have been some love for the victim at some time.

 

[carbuff]

I have three family/friends who have been murdered over the years. None of them were super close to me but of course I knew them. What I have seen with their direct family members doesn't match when you see the desperation of family with a missing person.

If my child was missing, I'd be everywhere where someone would listen to me to do whatever it took to get them home. When you have them home deceased, I don't know that it matters as much to the parent or adult child or whatever (comparatively) that justice is served. Many of my family members have stated they have to forgive or let it go because the negativity of it in an ongoing way taints their memories of their loved ones.

The closest family member to me who was murdered remains an open and unsolved case and it just is to the family. He's buried, they have a place to visit, they had a way to grieve. But finding his killer is not high on the list of things for them (of course, it has been 25 years). They still call LE twice a year to see if there has been anything new but honestly, he's gone and finding and punishing that person isn't going to bring him back.

I have a feeling this sounds like it doesn't matter and IT DOES. But compared to putting your faces out there to find a missing Alanna, I don't see it the same way.

Thank you for sharing that perspective.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

So at what point are people going to start thinking that LE doesn't have a suspect or doesn't have enough evidence to charge him? If this case is still unsolved in six months, are people then going to start thinking there's a predator on the loose in their community?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think there are plenty of whack jobs out there and I'd rather see it be one of those, then taken off the street than to imagine family could do something so horrific.

Family is valued in our society.

And, in my experience with my own family/friends, it was a whack job each and every time. One was solved, the female member still unsolved but suspected victim of a serial killer and the third that I mentioned upthread was passing a bar when he was stabbed. It is suspected he may have made a comment to somebody who was drunk and got killed.

Family is falsely valued a bit too much. IMO I don't like that the vast majority have a really hard time accepting mothers can and do often kill their own children or stand by and allow others to. Not speaking of this case, just in general.

 

[menmo]

I have to ask, and this is in general

I would much rather see the killer be a family member , rather than some unknown whack job.

Why do people hope that it is an unknown whack job over a family member?

As terrifying as it can be I'd rather it be some nut that has no personal relationship with a child than a family member that does.
There's something about family. I realize for everyone it's not so but they are supposed to be there for the child, supportive, nurturing and unconditional love. If this happened to my child or a child in my family I'd rather it be the unknown person. I think I could never deal well with it either way but far less if it were my family member.

MOO

 

[IBsleuthin]

Well, here I come...

I'm going to wade knee deep into this conversation.

Whenever I've had conversations with friends about stranger abductions, (and even on here) I've often been met with the reply, "Oh for Heaven's sake, your child has a greater chance of getting struck by lighting."


To that my answer is this:


If my child is going to die I would MUCH RATHER it be by lighting or an accident, or drowning, or an illness.

I HAPPEN TO KNOW that when the ODDS turn unfavorably to a stranger abduction of a child it is nearly 100% of the time for sexual and deviant gratification. (Please don't ask me for a link or a quote this is based on over 10 years of research).


This is what I simply could not live with.

This is what haunted me when my children were small. I am here to say with great conviction that if some weirdo took my child and killed them like this I would be insane. I'd be on the floor or on the lawn and incapacitated and inconsolable BECAUSE OF the knowledge I have in my head about these types of crimes and the horrific, deranged and terrified way these children die.


BUT...as I lay there in the grass gasping for oxygen if I thought for one nano second that I could get my hands on whoever did it, I would rise up from that grass and light every lawn on fire from here to the Mexican border until SOMEONE came forward and said, "Yeah you know my nephew who's been in and out of jail for sexual misconduct was alone at our house that day and he's left since then"...


I would become I'm sure the female John Walsh.

 

[IBsleuthin]

AND:

The days when families 'protect their own' need to be OVER. In my humble opinion MORE HARM has been committed by families AND WIVES IN PARTICULAR who know, KNOW that a family member is sick and due to shame or whatever misguided @#$$%^ they have, they decide to sweep it under the rug and not seek help. Tell no one.

I want to see laws that say if you know you have a family member capable of this and they commit a crime then you face the law as well.


Just last week I had a friend approach me because the in-laws were INSISTING on a sleep over with grandpa and grandma but this friend of mine KNEW that grandpa had been a molester in the past.

WHAT THE :stormingmad: WHHYYYYYYYYYY do families CATER to these sick individuals????? Why do the wives continue to look the other way?

 

[Dora the Explorer]

Some questions

So was someone driving down the road or sitting at home or visiting, and they see Alanna and say,"Gee. I have nothing to do today. Maybe I should grab that kid."

Or, did someone plan to get a kid and go driving around with supplies.

Or, did some watch her and know she was often unsupervised and plan to get her one day?

I just think someone would be prepared because they were thinking about this kind of actvity

I mentioned it before but I still think it was a kid (or two) inspired by the recent murder of 5 yr old Sida Osman by a 13 yr old boy not far from here. he was murdered just a few days before Alanna. A kid who loves crime shows and sampled from various episodes which is why nothing adds up as far as how/where she was found.