TX - Atatiana Jefferson, 28, fatally shot at home, Fort Worth, Oct 2019 *officer charged*

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  • #581
V BG gun
There may have been information that could have shown many things about him, his character and history and bias to name a few. Not just that he was panicky, fast acting, and assumed too much too fast or how much he slept. That he was given the opportunity that others in the same position aren't given speaks for itself.

You know, each time you see the videos of unwarranted shooting, it is like a deja vu. We had one here, too, when a Native American street artist, an old guy, deaf, drunk and carrying a carving knife (he was carving NA figurines and totems) was walking down the street, and was shot by the police officer.

The footage exists. And you can sit in a dark room and watch footages of all these unwarranted shootings, cases that are called "police brutality", and if you are not told what situation relates to what case, you will not be able to tell. There is always the same scenario - almost no time between the yelling "hands up" and the shot. It is as if the policemen are possessed at this moment. (If there is a second policeman there (like in Castile's case), his reaction is telling, too. It is obvious that the shot comes totally unexpected for him/her).

I am not a cursing type, but when I read about Atatiana being shot, my first thought was, WT.. the policemen are doing? And the second one, are they stoned out of their minds?

So I wonder what happens to guys and women who do it. Are they of the kind that should not be allowed to have the guns, ever? Are they candidates for mental treatment, not police academy? Obviously, by brutality they are not improving own lives at all, as now they have to go through court, and even if they are deemed not guilty, they probably need to be in a certain protection program. So it is not the conscious decision, even if they have bias. After these shots, their lives are changed forever, too, and not in a good way.

I did have a situation when a very calm, nice person suddenly drew a loaded gun out of his pocket to show it to me. He did not threaten me, but the situation was unwarranted. My thinking was, two of us in the room, this gun, what does he want? I remember being concerned, but also... when this happens, my time slows down and I can think about de-escalating the situation. (It is not always good - during earthquakes, such a reaction is bad, and maybe if one is attacked, or stalked, it is bad, too).

Maybe some people react the opposite way, their time is compressed during perceived danger? It is good during catastrophes, but with people, they might act to escalate the situation. Both groups are needed, but maybe the ones who think that fast should not be handing high-crime cases or areas? They can better deal with the traffic.

About the age. It seems that young policemen are more prone to such responses, but older policemen have own biases. For example, they are way more misogynous. They expect "yes, sir" answers. And I know at least one situation when a police guy in my neighborhood acted clearly not by the books.
 
  • #582
Even still, that is an extreme reaction to seeing someone in the house. He fired first, didn't identify himself or anything. They should have went through the front first
Perhaps the police believed that there was a possible burglary in progress?
 
  • #583
She may have picked up her gun, but she didn't immediately shoot like the trained professional that killed her. Plus, she was in her "castle" being stalked.


That’s nonsense.
 
  • #584
I'm curious about the caliber of police officers out on the streets. Are the police departments no longer getting high quality police officers due to the mean streets they have to patrol?
That's always been a concern of mine with so many gangs and drugs.
Maybe a lot of good men and women say no thanks to becoming a police officer.
Something to think about!

Bingo. I have a lot of friends who are LEO, and many of them are bailing for TSA jobs, FBI, Federal Law Enforcement positions. These are highly motivated folks, taking advantage of tuition reimbursement, going to college, and sending out resumes.

The fact that it is easier to pass POST training, than get on at TSA says a lot. They have changed the requirements for POST certification.
 
  • #585
According to the arrest affidavit, Jefferson was inside a bedroom playing video games with her 8-year-old nephew moments before the shooting. The 8-year-old boy told police Jefferson heard noises coming from outside and that she grabbed her handgun.

The boy said she had the handgun raised and pointed toward the window. This is when Jefferson was shot.

According to the affidavit, Dean declined to give an interview to police about his account and has not given a written statement, either.
Affidavit: Former Officer, Aaron Dean, Charged With Murder Hasn't Talked To Police About Shooting Atatiana Jefferson
additional comment:
Interim Police Chief Ed Kraus said at a news conference Tuesday that it “makes sense that she would have a gun if she felt that she was being threatened or there was someone in the backyard.”
 
  • #586
In a rational world- and in most other civilized countries- the concerned neighbor would have had no need to fear checking on a neighbor he knew himself, rather than calling LE.

In most other civilized countries in the world, LE, if called, would have no reason to fear being confronted with deadly force when responding to a call involving a hinky at a house. Nor would LE have reason to believe they have carte blanche rights to shoot to kill, based on their own threat assessment, however faulty.

In most other civilized countries in the world, a private citizen in their own house wouldn't feel a need to arm themselves to protect their "castle." Nor would they be given the legal right to shoot to kill, based on their own determination, however faulty, of the threat being posed.

When private citizens are allowed to own & use the means of deadly force to "protect" themselves & their homes, and when cops carry & are allowed to use deadly force at their own discretion against private citizens, what really is the surprise when either private citizens or cops, out of fear & knowing the other may well be armed, misread the situation and shoot?
 
  • #587


@KRLDAndrewG


@MayorBetsyPrice
is meeting with relatives of #AtatianaJefferson inside a private home in Fort Worth. Councilwoman
@KellyAllenGray is also present.
EG8FaiTXkAAfWnu.jpg

EG8FaiUW4AEXBG4.jpg
 
  • #588
@NicholeManna


Jim Lane, who has been retained as an attorney for AaronDean, said that neither he nor his client had any comment regarding the arrest or the case.
 
  • #589
V BG gun


You know, each time you see the videos of unwarranted shooting, it is like a deja vu. We had one here, too, when a Native American street artist, an old guy, deaf, drunk and carrying a carving knife (he was carving NA figurines and totems) was walking down the street, and was shot by the police officer.

The footage exists. And you can sit in a dark room and watch footages of all these unwarranted shootings, cases that are called "police brutality", and if you are not told what situation relates to what case, you will not be able to tell. There is always the same scenario - almost no time between the yelling "hands up" and the shot. It is as if the policemen are possessed at this moment. (If there is a second policeman there (like in Castile's case), his reaction is telling, too. It is obvious that the shot comes totally unexpected for him/her).

I am not a cursing type, but when I read about Atatiana being shot, my first thought was, WT.. the policemen are doing? And the second one, are they stoned out of their minds?

So I wonder what happens to guys and women who do it. Are they of the kind that should not be allowed to have the guns, ever? Are they candidates for mental treatment, not police academy? Obviously, by brutality they are not improving own lives at all, as now they have to go through court, and even if they are deemed not guilty, they probably need to be in a certain protection program. So it is not the conscious decision, even if they have bias. After these shots, their lives are changed forever, too, and not in a good way.

I did have a situation when a very calm, nice person suddenly drew a loaded gun out of his pocket to show it to me. He did not threaten me, but the situation was unwarranted. My thinking was, two of us in the room, this gun, what does he want? I remember being concerned, but also... when this happens, my time slows down and I can think about de-escalating the situation. (It is not always good - during earthquakes, such a reaction is bad, and maybe if one is attacked, or stalked, it is bad, too).

Maybe some people react the opposite way, their time is compressed during perceived danger? It is good during catastrophes, but with people, they might act to escalate the situation. Both groups are needed, but maybe the ones who think that fast should not be handing high-crime cases or areas? They can better deal with the traffic.

About the age. It seems that young policemen are more prone to such responses, but older policemen have own biases. For example, they are way more misogynous. They expect "yes, sir" answers. And I know at least one situation when a police guy in my neighborhood acted clearly not by the books.
I don’t think the shooting-immediately-after-giving-command is a new thing, I think we just know that it happens now due to video technology. When there’s no video it probably still happens, but the shooter always controls the narrative when the victim is dead.
 
  • #590
I don’t think the shooting-immediately-after-giving-command is a new thing, I think we just know that it happens now due to video technology. When there’s no video it probably still happens, but the shooter always controls the narrative when the victim is dead.

You know, I am thinking, the community needs to be "trained" how to deal with the police during traffic stops, or welfare checks, or what not. Obviously, when the police comes unannounced and shoots the house owner, it is very different, unbelievably different, but how many times, the stupidest s@@t, sorry, happens during traffic stops? Or regular face-to-face interactions? Or when a Good Samaritan calls the police for a possible rape?

We all are profiled, in a way. All of us. And yet, we do need to call them for welfare checks. Someone is suicidal, for example. I once had to call welfare check on a person who lived in another state, was a FB friend and posted something suicidal at night. What do you do in such cases? You find out where he lives (somewhere around the Great Lakes) and you call their police. So how do we take care of our fellow friends and don't put them in the line of fire? This is on the community side...

That something needs to be changed in their training is obvious. This is on the police side.

I think the video and the article about the Swedish cops breaking up the subway fight in NY became viral. The most surprising part was them checking the fighters for wounds and helping them after they broke the fight.

So what is different in their training?

https://nypost.com/2015/04/22/swedish-cops-on-vacation-break-up-subway-fight/
 
  • #591
I don’t think the shooting-immediately-after-giving-command is a new thing, I think we just know that it happens now due to video technology. When there’s no video it probably still happens, but the shooter always controls the narrative when the victim is dead.

You know, I am thinking, the community needs to be taught how to deal with the police during traffic stops, or welfare checks, or what not. Obviously, when the police comes unannounced and shoots the house owner, it is very different, but how many times stupidest s@@t, sorry, happens during traffic stops? Or regular face-to-face interactions? Or when a Good Samaritan calls the police for a possible rape?

We all are profiled, in a way. All of us. And yet, we do need to call them for welfare checks. Someone is suicidal, for example. I once had to call welfare check on a person who lived in another state, was a FB friend and posted something suicidal at night. What do you do in such cases? You find out where he lives (somewhere around the Great Lakes) and you call their police. So how do we take care of our fellow friends and don't put them in the line of fire? This is on the community side...

That something needs to be changed in their training is obvious. This is on the police side.

I think the video and the article about the Swedish cops breaking up the subway fight in NY became viral. The most surprising part was them checking the fighters for wounds and helping them when they dragged the two men apart.

So what is different in their training?

https://nypost.com/2015/04/22/swedish-cops-on-vacation-break-up-subway-fight/
 
  • #592
That’s nonsense.

I'm curious why you say this. 99% of the time I'm on the side of the police and rarely think a shooting is unjustified, but this one looks like it fits in the 1%.
 
  • #593
That’s nonsense.

Interim Police Chief Ed Kraus said at a news conference Tuesday that it “makes sense that she would have a gun if she felt that she was being threatened or there was someone in the backyard.”
 
  • #594
  • #595
As she should have, if she heard an individual walking around her property that late at night. Let's look at it based on what the nephew said; she pointed her gun at the window , in the direction she heard the noise, had restraint obviously b/c she didn't just fire off at the first noise she heard. How come the police didn't follow the same logic? She probably saw that it was law enforcement and didn't fire. He saw a body, "assuming" it was...who knows and fired off. I would be surprised if that was text book protocol.

The boy told a forensic interviewer that he and his aunt were playing video games together about 2:30 a.m. Saturday when she heard noises outside. She took her handgun from her purse and pointed it “toward the window” before she was shot, the nephew said, according to the arrest-warrant affidavit.
Atatiana Jefferson pointed gun at window before Fort Worth officer killed her, nephew told authorities
 
  • #596
  • #597
That’s nonsense.

She may have picked up her gun, but she didn't immediately shoot like the trained professional that killed her. Plus, she was in her "castle" being stalked.

"Stalked" might be interpreted as an overly inflammatory term. Let's say instead that LE Dean parked his squad car out of sight around the corner, didn't announce himself, and concealed himself as he walked around outside surveilling doors & windows & any movement in the house.

Single word choice aside, the original post is entirely factual, not "nonsense."

Ms. Jefferson wasn't a trained professional LE, Dean (on paper) was; if she did grab a gun she didn't shoot it immediately; Dean saw her & most definitely shot her immediately.

She was in her own home, her "castle," playing video games with an 8 year nephew; not a conceivable threat to anyone.

Where's the nonsense part of what was said?
 
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  • #598
As she should have, if she heard an individual walking around her property that late at night. Let's look at it based on what the nephew said; she pointed her gun at the window , in the direction she heard the noise, had restraint obviously b/c she didn't just fire off at the first noise she heard. How come the police didn't follow the same logic? She probably saw that it was law enforcement and didn't fire. He saw a body, "assuming" it was...who knows and fired off. I would be surprised if that was text book protocol.

BBM

At night, with the lights on in her bedroom, and a flashlight aimed at her, I doubt she could see who was outside. She didn't fire her gun for that reason most likely, because that is the rational thing to do.

I wish the police officer had displayed the same kind of logic in his behavior.
 
  • #599
Kraus got choked up as he likened the aftermath of the shooting to ants working to build an anthill, when “somebody comes with a hose and washes it away and they just have to start from scratch.”

“We have a great many officers who work extremely hard every day,” Kraus said. “I ask you please do not let the actions of one officer reflect on the other 1,700. There’s absolutely no excuse for this incident.”
Atatiana Jefferson pointed gun at window before Fort Worth officer killed her, nephew told authorities
 
  • #600
Nothing good ever happens after 10 pm!
 
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