TX - Cameron Redus, 23, UIW student, fatally shot by campus PD officer, 6 Dec 2013

[Paragirl]

Re questions about Carter pursuing Redus off-campus:

The University of the Incarnate Word employs 17 police officers who all are licensed and trained as state-certified peace officers, university spokeswoman Debra Del Toro said. None of the officers carries a Taser.

A state-licensed peace officer working for a private institution can enforce state and municipal laws outside the campus jurisdiction in a variety of instances, says the Texas Education Code, which governs the agencies.

That includes “whether the officer is on property under the control and jurisdiction of the institution, but provided these duties are consistent with the educational mission of the institution and are being performed within a county in which the institution has land,” the code states.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/UIW-police-officer-involved-in-fatal-shooting-5040968.php

 

[jadejazzkayla]

from paragirl's link==> ... Redus managed to take the baton away, pin the officer against a wall and hit him several times on the head and arm with the baton, Pruitt said.


=======

This article is written as if what Pruitt is saying are facts... her statements are not fact. she doesn't even say.... this is what Chris carter says happened... boo Pruitt for giving this biatently biased account and saying it in a manner that can't possibly be corroborated.

 

[Reader]

he was not out of his jurisdiction, it was a lawful stop that he is required to make or he would be derelict, so there was no reason to lie.

and he was not the person that gave the incorrect location anyway.

Where did you get the BBM information? Every article I've read says Carter gave the incorrect address. Here are a few:

He followed the car to the apartment complex and radioed headquarters for assistance from local police.
Alamo Heights is a incorporated town within the San Antonio city limits with it own police force, and because Carter mistakenly identified his location as being in San Antonio, the call went out to the wrong police department. It was several extra minutes before Alamo Heights police were called and could respond, the university said.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...hoots-kills-texas-college-student-after-chase

-----

Redus pulled into the apartment complex where he lived, and Carter followed, but he made a fateful slip.
He reported the wrong street location to police dispatchers, which caused his call to be routed to a police department farther away.

Alamo Heights police could have made it there to assist him sooner, but his call went to their San Antonio counterparts. This caused a delay of several minutes in response time.
He was left alone with Redus, and things went wrong. Had Pruitt's officers, who were closer, been called to respond, Redus might still be alive, the chief said.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/justice/texas-campus-officer-shooting/

------

"Alamo Heights is a incorporated town within the San Antonio city limits with it own police force, and because Carter mistakenly identified his location as being in San Antonio, the call went out to the wrong police department. It was several extra minutes before Alamo Heights police were called and could respond," NBC News reported.

Read more at http://www.lawyerherald.com/article...ollege-student-robert.htm#Ko1jxBQ9JMXwIhq9.99

I will add that this 'mistaken address' element is very suspicious to me also. He had worked the longest at the university, over 2 years. Did he not even know by now what town he was in?

*****

the officer's job record;

*he never received any disciplinary action but that doesnt rule out that he was "encouraged" to move on from positions or that there were issues, but we have no evidence of that yet. he was rehired by one place a second time for whatever that might be worth...

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/894553-christopher-j-carter-peace-officer-record.html

Thank you. All the enforcement courses listed shows he received over 4300 hours of classes; I saw at least 2 in Use of Force. IMO Carter should have been able to handle even a person resisting arrest without killing them. If this is the best he can do he should find another line of work. There is a reason he did not last long at previous LE depts. The fact that there are 6 where he was there for only 6 to 8 months, tells me he did not pass his probation period to become a permanent employee.

The personal information just posted by Paragirl is very interesting also. It seems he likes to get other people in trouble.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

There are two conflicting reports. One states he initially reported he was pulling Redus over which was probably in San Antonio at that time but where he ended up miles away was another location. One report said the officer who relayed the information gave the wrong location.

From the tape Carter appeared to have been engaged in trying to arrest the student. Warning him 56 times he was under arrest. Since there are bruises on Officer Carter's face and the tape indicates he was under attack with his own baton it appears he was within his rights to shoot the student when he started back after him. The tape reveals Carter warned him he would shoot and it appears the student did not believe him. Not sure how the average citizen would feel with someone who just hit them in the face with a weapon and then started to come at them again. When the officer pulled his gun Cameron Redus should have raised his hands and told the officer he would cooperate. He did not which is recorded by his flip response. The officer could only assume Redus was about to take his gun.

I think Officer Carter had difficulties with the different agencies he worked for because he wasn't tough enough as an officer, regardless of what his neighbors say. It's unheard of for an officer to warn a suspect 56 times. Some LE are just not cut out to be police. They are just not tough enough to pull off their authority when they engage a difficult suspect.

Some people are the nicest people until they drink too much at which point they become violent. jmo

 

[liljim]

*for reader;

from the chief of police' press conference statement;

"At that point, Carter turned on his emergency lights to make a traffic stop, Pruitt said. Both cars drove a mile and a half north on Broadway while Carter, via his radio, asked another university officer to call the Alamo Heights Police Department for backup, Pruitt said.

That officer inadvertently named an incorrect street in San Antonio, and there was a delay in response while officials determined that the call was coming from Alamo Heights, Pruitt said."

 

[liljim]

*if this isnt the right thread for this can a mod PM me and tell me where i can post something like this?*

im just putting it here because i found it while looking for info on this case and i dont know where else it would go

anyone know wth this person on twitter is doing?

https://twitter.com/AnnieGoodfrey

are they just a nutjob or is there some method to the madness?

i dont know anything really about twitter, wasnt sure if the person was trying to get their tweet count up and then... idk profit? lol

it is kind of pissing me off tho that they are using this poor mans name to spam their nonsense...

 

[wfgodot]

Carter refused medical treatment. But his injuries were consistent with being hit with a narrow object, Pruitt said.

“During the struggle, there were a lot of blows that he received,” the chief said.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/police...nt-cameron-redus-by-campus-police/#18821101=0

I am concerned and somewhat confused by this aspect of the case to date. Did he see a doctor then refused further treatment? Or were his alleged injuries only assessed by AHPD personnel.

 

[LambChop]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/police...nt-cameron-redus-by-campus-police/#18821101=0

I am concerned and somewhat confused by this aspect of the case to date. Did he see a doctor then refused further treatment? Or were his alleged injuries only assessed by AHPD personnel.

It sounds as if someone looked at him and he declined to go to the hospital. The term "injuries" indicates he had more than one mark on his face. As his supervisor I would have been concerned about head injuries impairing his abilities and the possibility Officer Carter may have been in a dazed state when he shot Redus. That could have accounted for the number of shots fired. jmo

 

[Reader]

*for reader;

from the chief of police' press conference statement;

"At that point, Carter turned on his emergency lights to make a traffic stop, Pruitt said. Both cars drove a mile and a half north on Broadway while Carter, via his radio, asked another university officer to call the Alamo Heights Police Department for backup, Pruitt said.

That officer inadvertently named an incorrect street in San Antonio, and there was a delay in response while officials determined that the call was coming from Alamo Heights, Pruitt said."

I didn't see the press conference. Do you have a link for that, please?

 

[wfgodot]

It sounds as if someone looked at him and he declined to go to the hospital. The term "injuries" indicates he had more than one mark on his face. As his supervisor I would have been concerned about head injuries impairing his abilities and the possibility Officer Carter may have been in a dazed state when he shot Redus. That could have accounted for the number of shots fired. jmo

Yes but I'd like to know specifically who did look at him. Not suggesting anything necessarily hinky about AHPD personnel making that assessment, but any injuries incurred on duty I would think ought to be looked at by an objective third party qualified to make the call. Job-related injuries almost always leave a paper trail. Will be point of contention in the future perhaps if charges are filed or a civil case ensues.

 

[LambChop]

Here you go.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/police...nt-cameron-redus-by-campus-police/#18821101=0

 

[wfgodot]

Here you go.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/police...nt-cameron-redus-by-campus-police/#18821101=0

Thanks. That's where I pulled the quote from. I need to check other MSM and see if there's more - or better-explained - detail about that. It may be just poor writing on the part of the Ex-News guy perhaps. Going to check it again in case paper has updated it.

 

[LambChop]

Yes but I'd like to know specifically who did look at him. Not suggesting anything necessarily hinky about AHPD personnel making that assessment, but any injuries incurred on duty I would think ought to be looked at by an objective third party qualified to make the call. Job-related injuries almost always leave a paper trail. Will be point of contention in the future perhaps if charges are filed or a civil case ensues.

Not sure why it would be an issue. It's on the tape with both the officer and the student and the whole confrontation. You do not resist arrest. If anything the student should have asked for his commanding officer to be called and Carter would have had to do it. If the officer pulled his gun he felt threatened even if he hadn't been beaten. Once the officer aimed his gun that should have ended it but according to what LE hears on the tape it sounds as if the student had no plans to surrender and was a threat to the officer. Officers have a duty to keep people from taking their guns. Plus this man's wounds sound as if he were moving towards the officer.

Also not sure about lawsuits. The student was driving under the influence, resisted arrest even though the officer warned him 56 times and then apparently attacked the officer. Anyone can file a lawsuit but it does not mean they will get it into court. jmo

 

[wfgodot]

Not sure why it would be an issue. It's on the tape with both the officer and the student and the whole confrontation. You do not resist arrest. If anything the student should have asked for his commanding officer to be called and Carter would have had to do it. If the officer pulled his gun he felt threatened even if he hadn't been beaten. Once the officer aimed his gun that should have ended it but according to what LE hears on the tape it sounds as if the student had no plans to surrender and was a threat to the officer. Officers have a duty to keep people from taking their guns. Plus this man's wounds sound as if he were moving towards the officer.

Also not sure about lawsuits. The student was driving under the influence, resisted arrest even though the officer warned him 56 times and then apparently attacked the officer. Anyone can file a lawsuit but it does not mean they will get it into court. jmo

Unless I'm missing something and autopsy details are already published, all we have on the "drunk" angle is something published in a newspaper based on the opinion of a campus security officer.

My question up above was specifically about the injury-treatment issue.

 

[al66pine]

Echoing the thoughts of another poster:
Before a driver complies w. LE requests or orders, how many times should LE have to tell him ---
---to put hands behind his back? more than 14 times?
---he's under arrest? more than 3 times?
---to stop resisting? more than 56 times?
---all the above? more than this combined count from the audio recording?

IMO some would agree above driver is not model citizen,
but also agree driver's inaction to that point did not seem - from recording- to merit LE use of force.

But what about when the driver wrested LE baton away from officer?
And struck him multiple times with it?

IMO, a driver grabbing LE's baton could also be anticipated by a reasonable person (or reasonable LEO)
to be capable of grabbing and likely to grab LE's service weapon.

Not saying this LEO gets officer of the year award, but dang....
As LambChop said, some ppl should not be in LE.

"Carter was wearing a body microphone, and police have reviewed an audio recordingof what happened next.
"The recording captured Carter asking Redus to stop and put his hands on the truck, Pruitt said. Redus did so, but began to struggle when Carter started to handcuff him, Pruitt said.
During the six-minute confrontation, Carter told Redus 14 times to put his hands behind his back and told him three times that he was under arrest, Pruitt said. Carter told Redus to stop resisting 56 times, Pruitt said.
“There was a lot of communication,” he said.
At some point, Carter took out his collapsible baton to protect himself, Pruitt said.
Although there was “a very stark difference” between Carter’s size and the smaller student, Redus managed to take the baton away, pin the officer against a wall and hit him several times on the head and arm with the baton, Pruitt said. The rain and rocky landscaping might have made it hard for the officer to keep his footing, Pruitt said." BBM UBM
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/police...nt-cameron-redus-by-campus-police/#18821101=0

 

[tezi]

Unless I'm missing something and autopsy details are already published, all we have on the "drunk" angle is something published in a newspaper based on the opinion of a campus security officer.

My question up above was specifically about the injury-treatment issue.

RBBM: I must have missed the same things you did woofie.

JMO

 

[LambChop]

I think the answer for student's alleged behavior is explained here.

"One witness told police she and Redus had gone drinking and bar-hopping that night, Pruitt told the media."

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...shot-five-times-by-campus-officer-5049897.php

Although the link is here you have to be a subscriber to read the article. But I think if you, jjenny, read the article yourself than we can believe it was reported. I would say from his behavior and his erratic driving (swerving and hitting the curb) this would indicate he had been drinking. A very good reason why he did not want to be handcuffed and taken into custody since DUI is a serious offense. Might even be worth fighting for in his altered state. There seems to be more and more of incidents where people are resisting arrest. Many of them we see on video appear to be under the influence of either drugs or alcohol. jmo

 

[LambChop]

RBBM: I must have missed the same things you did woofie.

JMO

I don't think you missed it I think you just were not able to read it since the link requires you sign up for the paper. jmo

 

[wfgodot]

It may be true one apparent participant in the evening's earlier activities apparently has said bar-hopping was involved, and that this was published in MSM. I'd like first to hear autopsy details to judge the extent of the young man's drinking that evening, if any. I'd not be shocked at all if the dead IW student had drinks. As I recall, there were several nightspots on that portion of Broadway in S.A., and certainly Broadway would be the chosen route to take back from the RiverWalk bars and clubs to IW and the late Mr. Redus's apartment in Alamo Heights. But none of this carries much weight - only an objective instrument like an autopsy can truly say. We'll know for sure I think soon though. This is a big case in S.A. as Redus's family is proactive and also the section of town in which the incident occurred itself carries much weight.

 

[LambChop]

My question up above was specifically about the injury-treatment issue.

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. Anytime, anytime there is a shooting or discharging of a weapon other than the shooting range during LE authorized practice, there is a police investigation into that shooting. All the information that posters are discussing have already been investigated. Pictures should have been taken of his injuries, statements taken, video and auto tapes reviewed, witness statements taken, etc. They have it all. It's normal to be placed on administrative leave and it should not be interpreted as the officer is guilty of any wrongdoing. It's just their procedure. The public does not get to decide when, where and how this information will be released until their investigation is over. We just don't have that option.

A statement was released that Officer Carter had visible injuries consistent with a flat object such as the baton. Those batons can hurt you and if he pulled it out he should have used it because that is what it is for. Most people in their right mind would have backed off or put up their hands the minute they saw the baton. jmo