TX - Fertilizer plant explodes in West, Texas

[eileenhawkeye]

Do you know what you are living next to?

When I ran squad, an abandoned factory caught on fire in our town. It had made boxes or something. We had to evacuate. It seems they found out there was a lot of paint stored in that factory and it seems burning paint lets off a lot of dangerous chemicals. We weren't aware of that until they located the owner during the fire.

At one point it was determined that our town's water supply was next door to a dumping area. And in that dumping area, was the debris from 5 mile island. Of Course they said the debris was in containers, spill proof. But investigation determined that some were leaking.

Visiting a nearby town, I heard on the radio there was a major fire at a grain dealer. Pregnant women and children were advised to remain indoors. I was pregnant.

A nearby area town had an early factory that did something with uranium. They were still working on that disaster a few years ago.

Point being we don't always know what is out there. And whether or not it is safe.

From my reading, it may not have been known just how much explosive material was in that plant. And locals trying to investigate probably wouldn't have known either. Because the amounts they were holding was being misrepresented to the government.

If it had been known how much they had, they would have had to install more safety procedures and equipment. Meaning it would have cost them.

Oh yeah, I don't live in an industrial area. I lived in small towns and rural areas.

A fertilizer plant is pretty much the equivalent of a giant bomb. So I don't agree that people did not know what they were living next to. My guess is that since the plant had never blown up before, people did not feel like they were in danger there. I bet when it exploded, there was a feeling of "It finally happened".

We have zoning laws in my state, and no one would be allowed to build that close to a fertilizer plant. I do not understand it. West has so much land surrounding it....Why was the plant built so close to town or why was the town built so close to the plant? I don't know which came first.

 

[Sonya610]

A terrorist attack can happen anywhere, and most people can relate to being at an event with a lot of people.

Well maybe it comes down to rural or city folks regarding what situations disturb us most.

Those that live in rural areas generally do NOT worry about terrorist attacks at all (unless you are near a high value target like a nuclear power plant) so going to crowded events and worrying about a bomb is low on our list of concerns.

 

[Sonya610]

Maybe it was posted and I missed it but have we herd WHY that plant had so much Ammonium nitrate?

One would think based on their production the amounts being used would be averaged.

It seems they had WAY MORE than what was typically needed for that size operation? Else presumably the gov officials would have flagged the facility? And if they did have way more then why? Did they get a good deal and stock up?

 

[Softail]

4 more 1st responders identified in West

One school obliterated, another may be razed

Updated: Monday, 22 Apr 2013, 8:02 AM CDT
Published : Monday, 22 Apr 2013, 8:00 AM CDT

WEST, Texas (AP) — Officials and family members have identified four more first responders who died in last week's deadly Texas fertilizer plant explosion.

At least 14 people died in Wednesday's explosion at the plant in the Texas town of West. West Mayor Tommy Muska has said that 10 of the 14 who died were first responders.

On Sunday, professional organizations and family and friends identified four more of the first responders who died: brothers Doug and Robert Snokhous, who were both firefighters with the West Volunteer Fire Department; Jerry Chapman, a firefighter with the Abbott Volunteer Fire Department; and Kevin Sanders, who worked with West EMS and another area volunteer fire department.


http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/texas/4-more-1st-responders-identified-in-west

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

President Obama will be in Dallas for Thursday's opening of the George Bush Library @ SMU.

There was some talk that he would venture down to West. Now, I'm hearing he might visit the injured in hospitals closer to Dallas. We'll see.


- - - -
eta: Well, that's already changing. It impacts those of us working down here, so I'd like him to decide, haha!

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

A fertilizer plant is pretty much the equivalent of a giant bomb. So I don't agree that people did not know what they were living next to. My guess is that since the plant had never blown up before, people did not feel like they were in danger there. I bet when it exploded, there was a feeling of "It finally happened".

We have zoning laws in my state, and no one would be allowed to build that close to a fertilizer plant. I do not understand it. West has so much land surrounding it....Why was the plant built so close to town or why was the town built so close to the plant? I don't know which came first.

BBM

I read an article yesterday maybe the WacoTrib? Not sure, I've slept since then! LOL

I believe the plant has been there the longest, and other things were built up close to it.

Someone else also made an interesting observation, not sure if I read it here or in the paper - that many locals thought of the plant as a fertilizer plant, NOT a "chemical" plant per se...although that's really what it was. Interesting that long timers didn't think of a fertilizer plants as bad as a chemical plant.

 

[PHB]

Arial photograph of West, TX, before and after the explosion.
You have to mouse over the picture to see "after".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...tures-before-and-after-the-blast.html#mm_hash

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Well maybe it comes down to rural or city folks regarding what situations disturb us most.

Those that live in rural areas generally do NOT worry about terrorist attacks at all (unless you are near a high value target like a nuclear power plant) so going to crowded events and worrying about a bomb is low on our list of concerns.

But just because you live in a rural area doesn't mean you don't go crowded events. What about sports games? College Football....People come from small towns to go tailgating with lots of people. I would think everyone has been in a situation where they have congregated with a lot of people. I don't think that being a victim of a terrorist attack is a big fear of most people, even city people. I am just saying that I think most Americans can relate to being in a crowd of people. Yeah, the chance of someone bombing a small-town parade is extremely miniscule...but "you" (in general) can relate to being with all the people, cheering on the floats, lining the streets, etc.

 

[mysteriew]

Maybe it was posted and I missed it but have we herd WHY that plant had so much Ammonium nitrate?

One would think based on their production the amounts being used would be averaged.

It seems they had WAY MORE than what was typically needed for that size operation? Else presumably the gov officials would have flagged the facility? And if they did have way more then why? Did they get a good deal and stock up?

From what I have read and the way I understand it it was up to the owner to let the gov know when he had excess amts of the ammonium nitrate and he didn't do so

I think they like fill out annual paperwork saying they have this much of what they have and maybe are told to keep it below a certain amount

If they keep more they are supposed to increase their safety and security equipment and hold public preparedness meetings

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/west...es-at-west-fertilizer-co.-blast-epicenter.ece

Investigators are beginning the investigation of what was actually stored there and how much

 

[corundogs]

A fertilizer plant is pretty much the equivalent of a giant bomb. So I don't agree that people did not know what they were living next to. My guess is that since the plant had never blown up before, people did not feel like they were in danger there. I bet when it exploded, there was a feeling of "It finally happened".

We have zoning laws in my state, and no one would be allowed to build that close to a fertilizer plant. I do not understand it. West has so much land surrounding it....Why was the plant built so close to town or why was the town built so close to the plant? I don't know which came first.

Actually...this isn't what happened. At least for one couple!

They posted a video of them driving into town immediately after the explosion happened. The man kept saying "I don't know" what happened.

The wife insisted it must be a PLANE that caused it!

The plant was never mentioned, even when they were at that apartment complex that was blown to pieces where a friend lived across the street from the damn plant!

I didn't understand that at all...my feeling was that if I lived in a town with a plant - of any kind really - that would be my FIRST and ONLY thought until I was told differently. But my aunt said that when you live near something like that, you have to go about your life thinking it will NEVER happen and put it out of your mind. Or you will never feel safe in your own home. She lived really close to an airport at one time...like their backyard backed up to it. They didn't think anything of it, because if they did, how do you go to sleep with your children inside each night?

That made sense to me...but I still would have assumed it was the plant if I lived in West. But at the very least, that couple sure didn't!

 

[mysteriew]

More details about oversight issues
Also the company had no fire sprinklers or fire barriers
I didn't know that there what the difference was between anhydrous ammonia and ammonium nitrate. It seems that ammonium nitrate is a solid.
http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/20...n-concerns-over-safety-regulation-and-zoning/

 

[mysteriew]

Texas church holds service after West fertilizer plant explosion

The explosion reportedly killed 10 first responders, many of them volunteer firefighters who came after initial reports of a fire at the plant. A memorial service for first responders is scheduled for Thursday on the campus of Baylor University in nearby Waco.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/04/texas_church_holds_service_aft.html

Services were held in a cornfield

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Plans in high gear for POTUS to go to Waco on Thursday.

 

[Softail]

Plans in high gear for POTUS to go to Waco on Thursday.

Waco? :waitasec:

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Waco? :waitasec:

Yes/Baylor

 

[Softail]

Yes/Baylor

For a memorial? I would think he could at least go to West, and see it for himself.

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

For a memorial? I would think he could at least go to West, and see it for himself.

He can fly over it

This will make the memorial a little more difficult for attendees, as they'll now have to go through heavy screening to attend. Parking will also be affected.

ETA: I need to vent a little. Now, due to this visit...resources are going to have to be pulled from West, to cover the visit. Seriously, it's already being coordinated. I was just in contact with someone that is working the Command Post today, that has to come down here to attend a meeting tomorrow. In addition, those agencies who were going to attend the memorial as colleagues of the fallen Fire/EMS, etc, will now have some employees pulled to be working the event. This visit involves: EMS, Fire, local/state/Fed LE, TX Parks/Wildlife. Off vent. Maybe having POTUS attend will make the victims feel better and it will make it all worth it. I dunno.

 

[Softail]

He can fly over it

This will make the memorial a little more difficult for attendees, as they'll now have to go through heavy screening to attend. Parking will also be affected.

ETA: I need to vent a little. Now, due to this visit...resources are going to have to be pulled from West, to cover the visit. Seriously, it's already being coordinated. I was just in contact with someone that is working the Command Post today, that has to come down here to attend a meeting tomorrow. In addition, those agencies who were going to attend the memorial as colleagues of the fallen Fire/EMS, etc, will now have some employees pulled to be working the event. This visit involves: EMS, Fire, local/state/Fed LE, TX Parks/Wildlife. Off vent. Maybe having POTUS attend will make the victims feel better and it will make it all worth it. I dunno.

:doh: That is just wrong. One would think that some other agency could come and fill the gap. Dallas, Austin, Waco.... Pulling people from West, baffles my mind. These people should not have to work the event.

I don't want to make this thread about politics, as I have my opinions of this POTUS. But I'll :shush: about that.

 

[faw720]

Plans in high gear for POTUS to go to Waco on Thursday.

Should be an interesting day. I saw on facebook that Westboro Baptist church is going to picket the memorial. Sure enough I googled their website & they have announced they are going. I'm not going to provide the link because of its very offensive name..........just can't even bring myself to type it.

No doubt the Secret Service will cause the church to reconsider their plans.