TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[kato]

Two days before the murders, her doctor told her to stop taking her medication. In my mind, that was the root cause, not gross negligence by Rusty. Though he is not without parental fault. It's a matter of: Who gets the biggest spotlight.

And Rusty did mention the doctors culpability in his press conference.

 

[Jules]

Two days before the murders, her doctor told her to stop taking her medication. In my mind, that was the root cause, not gross negligence by Rusty. Though he is not without parental fault. It's a matter of: Who gets the biggest spotlight.

I think Rusty's negligence began long before that. They were advised against having more kids after the birth of the 4th one. I also hold him responsible for not having adequate care for Andrea. How he could leave for work every day knowing that she hadn't showered, ate or talked in days is beyond me. If she was not capable of caring for herself, how on earth could she possibly care for 5 children? He worked (works) for NASA and surely could have afforded some help for Andrea.

 

[Wudge]

Don't tell me you fell for the twinkie defense?

I didn't see a twinkie defense here, but maybe you tossed one by me counselor.

In my mind, insanilty begets reasonable doubt, always. To me, Andrea was insane, thus reasonable doubt, thus not guilty.

(justice can be simple: where did I leave my twinkies?..chuckle)

 

[Jules]

And Rusty did mention the doctors culpability in his press conference.

Yes, I also agree the doctor (Dr. Saaed, I believe) needs to be held accountable as well. He, as someone dispensing powerful medications, should have known the discontinuation of Haldol was to be done gradually - not all at once.

 

[Texana]

She's his aunt. Fairy Caroland. (I like Carol Fairyland better!)

Get out. That's her name? She did look a little old to be his sister. The news reporter summarized it as "Rusty Yates' mother and family member."

 

[calus_3]

I think Rusty's negligence began long before that. They were advised against having more kids after the birth of the 4th one. I also hold him responsible for not having adequate care for Andrea. How he could leave for work every day knowing that she hadn't showered, ate or talked in days is beyond me. If she was not capable of caring for herself, how on earth could she possibly care for 5 children? He worked (works) for NASA and surely could have afforded some help for Andrea.

Let's face it, Rusty may work for NASA but he's no rocket scientist. He reminds me of Joey Buddafooko [sic?].

He knew what was going on and knew she was advised against having more kids. Whether it was done out of arrogance, ignorance, selfishness or just plain apathy....he should have put a stop to the kids. 15 minutes in some stirrups and old Rusty could have been a father still.

I personally couldn't go on without my kids....especially knowing that something so horrible happened to them and that they knew it.

Cal

 

[kato]

Parnham speaking. This case a watershed for justice system. Shows we need to get the mentally ill better. Gives her an opportunity to rebond with her children. ??? Court tomorrow morning. Says Andrea thanked them for helping her and her children.

 

[Wudge]

I think Rusty's negligence began long before that. They were advised against having more kids after the birth of the 4th one. I also hold him responsible for not having adequate care for Andrea. How he could leave for work every day knowing that she hadn't showered, ate or talked in days is beyond me. If she was not capable of caring for herself, how on earth could she possibly care for 5 children? He worked (works) for NASA and surely could have afforded some help for Andrea.

All valid arguments, but my biggest floodlight still highlights her doctor as the most proximate cause. But we all make mistakes, all.

 

[PaperDoll]

I was looking at the pics of the trial and during closing arguments, they had the childrens clothes hanging on a board.. Broke my heart.. I believe she is mentally ill, no one in their right mind would kill their own flesh and blood aka: children.. I do, however, believe she knew what she did was wrong.. she should have walked away or called for help when she had that feeling coming over her.. Then again, maybe she had before and no one paid any attention..

 

[kato]

NG will be covering this tonight.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Let's face it, Rusty may work for NASA but he's no rocket scientist. He reminds me of Joey Buddafooko [sic?].

He knew what was going on and knew she was advised against having more kids. Whether it was done out of arrogance, ignorance, selfishness or just plain apathy....he should have put a stop to the kids. 15 minutes in some stirrups and old Rusty could have been a father still.

I personally couldn't go on without my kids....especially knowing that something so horrible happened to them and that they knew it.

Cal

I'm married to an engineer and let me tell you, they may be brillant when it comes to their work, but sometimes you have to hit them over the head and hold a sign up to get them to notice some other things. That's not to say that that's any excuse for Rusty, but intelligence doesn't always equal knowing what's going on interpersonally.

 

[Jules]

:laugh:

Let's face it, Rusty may work for NASA but he's no rocket scientist. He reminds me of Joey Buddafooko [sic?].

He knew what was going on and knew she was advised against having more kids. Whether it was done out of arrogance, ignorance, selfishness or just plain apathy....he should have put a stop to the kids. 15 minutes in some stirrups and old Rusty could have been a father still.

I personally couldn't go on without my kids....especially knowing that something so horrible happened to them and that they knew it.

Cal

ABSOLUTELY no rocket scientist!! (that made me laugh out loud :innocent: )
But Joey??? :waitasec: :waitasec:

I believe he truly felt Andrea would get better. I don't think he fully understood just how sick she was until it was too late. I also wonder just how much time he actually spent 'with' Andrea. He has stated he put in long hours at work, would come home and play with the kids, and then go to bed. It doesn't sound like he spent much time talking and bonding with her (well, other than getting her pregnant).

I, too, would have a hard time without my kids. They truly are the light of my life.

 

[calus_3]

I was looking at the pics of the trial and during closing arguments, they had the childrens clothes hanging on a board.. Broke my heart.. I believe she is mentally ill, no one in their right mind would kill their own flesh and blood aka: children.. I do, however, believe she knew what she did was wrong.. she should have walked away or called for help when she had that feeling coming over her.. Then again, maybe she had before and no one paid any attention..

Name one person who was in their right mind when they flipped out and murdered another human being? Doesn't the mere fact that you took another life willingly and without provication sort of require one to be 'not in their right mind'? Not in your right mind because your child just broke a priceless vase or peed on the floor or threw spaghettios on the wall and you are pissed about it verses out of your mind insane....well, is that child no less dead?

Regardless of whether she was depressed, mad, outraged, insane, full of a demon, etc. she should never see the light of day again! The mere fact of what she did to her kids requires...IMHO....that she be kept somewhere until she dies. Period. If she was in her right mind...well, that's obvious. If not, what happens to the poor soul that she runs into with her car when she gets out...is she going to hack them up with a knife?

Insanity is a bleeding heart defense for the indefensible. I don't care about what was running through her mind when she did it, the justice system should only concern itself with the act itself.

If you look hard enough, you can find someone willing to justify raping a child and try their darndest to get that person out of jail.

Cal

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Regardless of whether she was depressed, mad, outraged, insane, full of a demon, etc. she should never see the light of day again! The mere fact of what she did to her kids requires...IMHO....that she be kept somewhere until she dies.
Cal

She will be.

 

[calus_3]

She will be.

I don't think so.....she will be reviewed periodically for suitability to be returned to society.

I dunno, call me a hardarse or old-fashioned, but I am really just not into people's excuses. I don't want to hear the excuse of the Katrina 'victim' that hasn't bettered herself one bit despite having free everything for over a year and now she wants to complain because the church is kicking her out of her free home. I don't want to hear the excuse as to why the drug dealer killed an innocent child during a drive by gone wrong. I don't want to hear the excuse why some guy beats his wife. AND I DON'T WANT TO HEAR ANDREA YATES EXCUSES OF HOW SHE DROWN EACH OF HER KIDS IN A BATHTUB. I don't care why. Why has no bearing on what she did. There is no excuse. There is no reason. There is no logic.

She needs to be kept away from society forever. She did something so horrible that, regardless of the circumstances, she needs to be locked up somewhere forever. If it were my wife, they would need to lock her up to protect her from ME.

Cal

 

[Wudge]

SNIP

Insanity is a bleeding heart defense for the indefensible. I don't care about what was running through her mind when she did it, the justice system should only concern itself with the act itself.

SNIP

It makes no sense, whatsoever, to convict an insane person.

Insanity is not representative of the famous "diminished capacity defense" (see Jeana's aforementioned twinkie defense), which was made famous when Dan White went on trial for murdering San Fancisco's Mayor, George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milke in the late 70's (my recollection).

Insane people are insane, not just "diminished" in capacity, which, by the way, is no longer even a viable defense.

 

[calus_3]

It makes no sense, whatsoever, to convict an insane person.

Insanity is not representative of the famous "diminished capacity defense" (see Jeana's aforementioned twinkie defense), which was made famous when Dan White went on trial for murdering San Fancisco's Mayor, George Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milke in the late 70's (my recollection).

Insane people are insane, not just "diminished" in capacity, which, by the way, is no longer even a viable defense.

Then let her be YOUR neighbor.

When will all these psychobabblers realize that regardless of what excuses they make for the person, they still did what they did. Society needs to be protected.

Cal

 

[Wudge]

Then let her be YOUR neighbor.

When will all these psychobabblers realize that regardless of what excuses they make for the person, they still did what they did. Society needs to be protected.

Cal

My Mother was declared legally insane more than once in her life. In that mental state, a person's actions simply cannot be rationally accounted for or explained. That's why we commit them to mental institutions until they get better, which might be never.

 

[Jules]

Then let her be YOUR neighbor.

When will all these psychobabblers realize that regardless of what excuses they make for the person, they still did what they did. Society needs to be protected.

Cal

I don't believe society needs to be protected from her. She has never shown any violence toward anyone other than (obviously) her kids and her self. I do believe she will be locked up for quite some time, however, I do believe there is a chance at some point that she will be well enough to live outside a treatment center.

:truce: :truce:

 

[Jules]

My Mother was declared legally insane more than once in her life. In that mental state, a person's actions simply cannot be rationally accounted for or explained. That's why we commit them to mental institutions until they get better, which might be never.

Fully agree Wudge. We don't often agree - especially on the Peterson case - but I do agree with you here.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom and hope she is doing better now.