TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

[kato]

She comes on after Scarborough Country here Kato. I think they switched timeslots. She on 10 est. now, or was last time I checked.

That's what I thought. That would be 9 my time (CST). I knew they had changed time slots. Maybe they just don't show her in our area anymore for some reason. Weird.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jilly...I watched it tonight too. Like you , I dont ever think she'll be well again. And, if by Doctors standards they think she is, I feel she'll try to kill herself. The guilt will be too much. To bad Rusty doesn't feel any guilt but I don't think he's ever felt anything at all. Egotistical . But, I have a funny feeling we'll be hearing that this new marrage is on the rocks before too long. Andrea stayed only because she was so ill. This new wife will want out pretty soon IMO.

I watched it too and agree with you!

 

[kato]

Just read an article in our local Houston paper. Parnham represented a guy in 1992 who had quit taking his anti-psychotic meds. He opened fire on an elementary school firing 14 shots and injuring 2 HPD officers. The guy was hospitalized and let out 2 yrs. later. Granted he didn't murder anyone but it goes to show you that some people who are guilty by reason of insanity can be let out one day.

 

[jilly]

Jilly...I watched it tonight too. Like you , I dont ever think she'll be well again. And, if by Doctors standards they think she is, I feel she'll try to kill herself. The guilt will be too much. To bad Rusty doesn't feel any guilt but I don't think he's ever felt anything at all. Egotistical . But, I have a funny feeling we'll be hearing that this new marrage is on the rocks before too long. Andrea stayed only because she was so ill. This new wife will want out pretty soon IMO.

I agree...and I believe there's a lot more to this story as far as Rusty is concerned. I've always felt that he was the root of it all. I could have smacked his fat face seeing him in the courtroom the other day. I think Andrea would do better to never have to see him again.

What did you think of Weller during his interview of Andrea? I wasn't impressed at all. Sounded more like an interrogation.

Gosh, hearing Andrea's voice when she was with the children and again when she was with Weller - even that's distorted.

 

[jilly]

She comes on after Scarborough Country here Kato. I think they switched timeslots. She on 10 est. now, or was last time I checked.

I'm confused here - was this maybe a special? She used to be on regularly after Scarborough but I watched the nite she signed off for the last time saying she would be more involved with MSNBC investigates and specials.

 

[Texana]

We heard Rusty on radio interview clip last night--KPRC AM--He said something to the effect of "Moving on now" and "I've got a new family."

My husband commented immediately afterward on how "matter of fact" Rusty sounded. I can't presume to judge people's feelings based on voice tone, but from Day One--or maybe it was Day Two Rusty gave a press interview on his front lawn--he has always just had that tone in his voice. He has the same affect you would use to discuss the weather or anything else. I don't know if he just has a natural gift for saying that things that make you go ouch! or if he really is just so completely insensitive...I suspect both.

Like when he said, "I wish Andrea all the best, and she wishes me all the best." Now, is that a stupid thing to say or what, about someone who may be confined to a mental institute forever? Or when the shared history you have is that of five dead children?

There is a really good photo/timeline of the events in the marriage and trials on the Houston Chronicle website. I tried to link to it but failed. Maybe some other sharper mind can find it.

 

[kato]

I'm confused here - was this maybe a special? She used to be on regularly after Scarborough but I watched the nite she signed off for the last time saying she would be more involved with MSNBC investigates and specials.

That seems like a logical answer. I must've missed cuz I didn't watch her every night.

 

[kato]

We heard Rusty on radio interview clip last night--KPRC AM--He said something to the effect of "Moving on now" and "I've got a new family."

My husband commented immediately afterward on how "matter of fact" Rusty sounded. I can't presume to judge people's feelings based on voice tone, but from Day One--or maybe it was Day Two Rusty gave a press interview on his front lawn--he has always just had that tone in his voice. He has the same affect you would use to discuss the weather or anything else. I don't know if he just has a natural gift for saying that things that make you go ouch! or if he really is just so completely insensitive...I suspect both.

Like when he said, "I wish Andrea all the best, and she wishes me all the best." Now, is that a stupid thing to say or what, about someone who may be confined to a mental institute forever? Or when the shared history you have is that of five dead children?

There is a really good photo/timeline of the events in the marriage and trials on the Houston Chronicle website. I tried to link to it but failed. Maybe some other sharper mind can find it.

Yeah, he's a strange attitude since day 1. I think he's just like that.

 

[calus_3]

Just how he he!! do you move on when your five kids were drown by someone you helped create and foster?

My daughter fell and gashed her nose open two nights ago. She took seven stitches and I am still tore up about it.

I can understand moving on from the wife....I would personally want to roll over her with my vehicle.

But the mere fact that crusty decided it was time to move on and not think about his kids deaths....that just incenerates my soul.

The death of one or both of my kids in a violent fashion would be the end of me....I probably couldn't go on.

This guy is a hoesbag and deserves to be right there with his wife.

Cal

 

[kato]

Just how he he!! do you move on when your five kids were drown by someone you helped create and foster?

My daughter fell and gashed her nose open two nights ago. She took seven stitches and I am still tore up about it.

I can understand moving on from the wife....I would personally want to roll over her with my vehicle.

But the mere fact that crusty decided it was time to move on and not think about his kids deaths....that just incenerates my soul.

The death of one or both of my kids in a violent fashion would be the end of me....I probably couldn't go on.

This guy is a hoesbag and deserves to be right there with his wife.

Cal

Sorry, not a funny subject we have here but I just had to laugh at "crusty".

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Just how he he!! do you move on when your five kids were drown by someone you helped create and foster?

My daughter fell and gashed her nose open two nights ago. She took seven stitches and I am still tore up about it.

I can understand moving on from the wife....I would personally want to roll over her with my vehicle.

But the mere fact that crusty decided it was time to move on and not think about his kids deaths....that just incenerates my soul.

The death of one or both of my kids in a violent fashion would be the end of me....I probably couldn't go on.

This guy is a hoesbag and deserves to be right there with his wife.

Cal

I'm sorry about your baby girl Cal!!! I know you wish it had been you instead. We always want to take the hurt way from our kids!

I honestly have nothing to say about Rusty. I think Karma and God will deal with him and he's just not worth it.

 

[mysteriew]

When people are having problems it isn't always a case of wanting to take pills to feel better or not wanting to cope with everyday life. Mental illness, depression, etc is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. It isn't something that you can wish away or just deal with. Most pills don't make a person numb...they help you feel normal and help bring joy back into your life.
It really doesn't have anything to do with really living life and dealing with life and all of its highs and lows.

I have been on an antidepressant for a number of years...since the murder of my daughter. I have tried to stop taking them and I really become suicidal. Not because I want to be suicidal but because the chemicals in my brain go whacky. I go back on them and I'm better. We just changed my antidepressant at my insistance and I feel like I used to. I feel like I have my life back and I'm the old me again. I feel excited about things, I visit my friends, I'm not isolating, it is a world of difference. My old antidepressant wasn't working for quite a while but I couldn't get my doctor to listen to me until I flat told him that if we didn't try something else I wouldn't be here much longer. It wasn't a threat....I meant it.

There is nothing wrong with taking meds if a person needs them. I need an antidepressant and I don't really care what anyone else thinks about it. I know what I need to feel normal and like my old self. My kids are thrilled to death to have their old mother back. I feel like I have lived life and also lived its highs and lows....I raised 4 kids by myself from ages 9,8,7,4 1/2...lived through the murder of my daughter...my baby...have raised grandchildren off and on and one since she was 4 1/2...I've fought the hardest battle in my life for 3 1/2 in court for custody of my granddaughter...I'm 63 yrs old and this granddaughter will be 18 yrs in January and then I'm going to do some living for myself. I think I've done my share of handling lifes highs and lows, upside downs and sideways. Me and my Paxil RC are going to enjoy whatever time I have left in this old world

Excellent post, Bobbisangel. It is so hard for people to understand about depression. How deep seated it is. Did you ever leave the house then start wondering if you left the iron or something on? You go about your day, you think you turned it off, but it pops into your mind all day? Being suicidal is like that, only worse.
I liken it to existing in a world surrounded by a fog. You can see through the fog, you can see all the pretty things, the loving gestures, the nice things. But you can't touch them because of that fog. And the fog is full of negative things about yourself, your life, the injustices of the world even. The negative things in the fog are so strong that it won't let the positive things in to you.

 

[calus_3]

When people are having problems it isn't always a case of wanting to take pills to feel better or not wanting to cope with everyday life. Mental illness, depression, etc is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. It isn't something that you can wish away or just deal with. Most pills don't make a person numb...they help you feel normal and help bring joy back into your life.
It really doesn't have anything to do with really living life and dealing with life and all of its highs and lows.

I have been on an antidepressant for a number of years...since the murder of my daughter. I have tried to stop taking them and I really become suicidal. Not because I want to be suicidal but because the chemicals in my brain go whacky. I go back on them and I'm better. We just changed my antidepressant at my insistance and I feel like I used to. I feel like I have my life back and I'm the old me again. I feel excited about things, I visit my friends, I'm not isolating, it is a world of difference. My old antidepressant wasn't working for quite a while but I couldn't get my doctor to listen to me until I flat told him that if we didn't try something else I wouldn't be here much longer. It wasn't a threat....I meant it.

There is nothing wrong with taking meds if a person needs them. I need an antidepressant and I don't really care what anyone else thinks about it. I know what I need to feel normal and like my old self. My kids are thrilled to death to have their old mother back. I feel like I have lived life and also lived its highs and lows....I raised 4 kids by myself from ages 9,8,7,4 1/2...lived through the murder of my daughter...my baby...have raised grandchildren off and on and one since she was 4 1/2...I've fought the hardest battle in my life for 3 1/2 in court for custody of my granddaughter...I'm 63 yrs old and this granddaughter will be 18 yrs in January and then I'm going to do some living for myself. I think I've done my share of handling lifes highs and lows, upside downs and sideways. Me and my Paxil RC are going to enjoy whatever time I have left in this old world

Great post.

You might be interested in some recent research if I can find the article. We know that stress (long term or acute) causes the body to create a stress hormone as part of the fight or flight instint. That's fact. What is also fact is that this hormone, if in great enough quantity or over time, kills brain cells.

Until a while back, researchers weren't exactly sure how antidepressants work and why it takes 3-4 weeks for them to begin working. Until a scientist injected rats with stress hormone and killed brain cells. Then these rats were given AD's. The researcher found that the AD's flooded the brain with Seatonin or the other brain chemicals. Then the amazing part. The chemicals resulted in new cell growth....whether that was because of the chemicles or the absence of the stress hormone is a mystery. However, it took something like 3-4 weeks for these brain cells to mature, become active, start taking on the increased seratonin and alter the mood.

Never kick yourself for taking meds. Most of the happy pill people never took them and have no idea what they are talking about. You are doing what you have to do to survive. I applaud you and I am very sorry about your daughter. Bless you.

Cal

 

[jilly]

There is a really good photo/timeline of the events in the marriage and trials on the Houston Chronicle website. I tried to link to it but failed. Maybe some other sharper mind can find it.

I'm certainly not one of those "sharper minds" Texana but here's the link to today's Chronicle. There are links there, not sure if what you're talking about is in there.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4077995.html

ETA - I was reading some of the links - I didn't really follow the last trial. I was wondering what Andrea's family thought of Rusty. Reading the link "Andrea faces sentence alone" I see that Rusty never changed a diaper in his life. He also believes women are subservient to men.

Gosh, that poor woman having to live with him. She was just there for his "needs". Terrible.

 

[OneLostGrl]

The homeschooling bookstore employee testified that Andrea and the children always seemed perfectly normal when they came in. Nothing out of the ordinary whatsoever. (that testimony was intended to emphasize the point that on meds and stable, Andrea was a completely different person.)

Meds cause weight gain because they affect the metabolism and hormones. Prescribing the right medications for mental health is particularly difficult because moods affect hormones, which alter physical chemistry. This is why therapy in addition to medication is so important, because the patient learns to handle emotions differently so that their moods don't contribute to worsening their condition. It can take anywhere from two weeks to two months for the human body to become regulated. All medications come with side effects but usually after about 2-3 months the effects lessen. Unfortunately, you will find doctors who "tweak" meds like they are aspirin and patients/families who don't fully understand the differences between the medications or even the chemical inbalances themselves.

Mental health care has come a long way since the days of electro-shock therapy and lobotomies. But if you think that doctors know all they need to know about how the brain functions...you have only to read recent news. We don't know why some people awaken from comas and others don't. Gene therapy for mental illness may be a better thing that medication. There's just a lot left to learn still.

There is a huge difference between severe depression and psychosis. Clinically depressed people do not hallucinate or hear voices. Psychotic people do.

Equating severe psychotic post-partum depression as something that can just be overcome with positive thoughts and moral character means more children will die. "She would never hurt the children" needs to be taken out of the equation.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Your post is so right on that it gave me chills as I was reading it!

When my illness worsened after the birth of my son, I tried to FORCE myself to get better- keep busy, play groups for the baby, "dates" with just hubby and I, etc... I tried everything I could think of and I didn't get better, I got WORSE! SO much worse that I had to be committed involuntarily to a hospital.

Mental illness is a progressive illness and if you do nothing, you WILL get worse!!

 

[cappuccina]

....she killed her kids because she was angry at her husband, and no longer wanted to be responsible for anything...


The reason I disagree with the new verdict hinges on a very important piece of evidence...

This was premeditated, and she happened to choose the ONLY block of time in the ENTIRE DAY where she would be alone to do this....her husband left for work, and then there was an hour or hour and one-half or so before her MIL came to help (which she did every weekday at least, anyway)...Andrea CHOSE to kill her children in this very short period of time....the ONLY point in the day where she would be alone, as MIL usually stayed until hubby got home...

I'm also not saying she wasn't depressed; however, she does not meet the legal definition of insanity....She clearly knew right from wrong, since she chose that particular time to commit her crime...I'm not saying, BTW, that Rusty was a saint...he was/is an a$$hole....However, this woman does NOT meet the legal definition of insanity even though she clearly does have a history of mental illness...

She killed her kids because she was fed up and wanted "out"...

I'm not thrilled at the verdict, and I think it opens up a door to irresponsible parents who do not want to take the very adult responsibility of caring for their kids, IMO...

 

[MagicRose99]

....she killed her kids because she was angry at her husband, and no longer wanted to be responsible for anything...


The reason I disagree with the new verdict hinges on a very important piece of evidence...

This was premeditated, and she happened to choose the ONLY block of time in the ENTIRE DAY where she would be alone to do this....her husband left for work, and then there was an hour or hour and one-half or so before her MIL came to help (which she did every weekday at least, anyway)...Andrea CHOSE to kill her children in this very short period of time....the ONLY point in the day where she would be alone, as MIL usually stayed until hubby got home...

I'm also not saying she wasn't depressed; however, she does not meet the legal definition of insanity....She clearly knew right from wrong, since she chose that particular time to commit her crime...I'm not saying, BTW, that Rusty was a saint...he was/is an a$$hole....However, this woman does NOT meet the legal definition of insanity even though she clearly does have a history of mental illness...

She killed her kids because she was fed up and wanted "out"...

I'm not thrilled at the verdict, and I think it opens up a door to irresponsible parents who do not want to take the very adult responsibility of caring for their kids, IMO...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[Texana]

Thank you Jilly! :blowkiss:

I'm not sure if you can even link to the photo time line, but it's on the website if anyone wants to check it out. If you go to the news section on the website and then Yates Trial it is in the sidebar on the lefthand side, "History and timeline."

Rusty is not simple minded but I think he sees the world in very simple terms. That is perhaps why he had such a hard time dealing with Andrea's illness--mental illness is anything but simple or easily cured. His take on things just always seems so simplistic and so totally unaware or maybe uncaring of how people perceive him. Like when he reportedly said, "Andrea got two hours a week all to herself, but she usually chose to go grocery shopping then and take Mary with her."

Two hours a week pushing a cart through the supermarket and he thinks she's getting a break and having her needs met.

There is something not right with him and I don't know if he's, as a coworker of mine used to say so well, "Broken and cain't be fixed."

 

[PaperDoll]

....she killed her kids because she was angry at her husband, and no longer wanted to be responsible for anything...


The reason I disagree with the new verdict hinges on a very important piece of evidence...

This was premeditated, and she happened to choose the ONLY block of time in the ENTIRE DAY where she would be alone to do this....her husband left for work, and then there was an hour or hour and one-half or so before her MIL came to help (which she did every weekday at least, anyway)...Andrea CHOSE to kill her children in this very short period of time....the ONLY point in the day where she would be alone, as MIL usually stayed until hubby got home...

I'm also not saying she wasn't depressed; however, she does not meet the legal definition of insanity....She clearly knew right from wrong, since she chose that particular time to commit her crime...I'm not saying, BTW, that Rusty was a saint...he was/is an a$$hole....However, this woman does NOT meet the legal definition of insanity even though she clearly does have a history of mental illness...

She killed her kids because she was fed up and wanted "out"...

I'm not thrilled at the verdict, and I think it opens up a door to irresponsible parents who do not want to take the very adult responsibility of caring for their kids, IMO...

Thanks Capp for your input :blowkiss:

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank you Jilly! :blowkiss:

I'm not sure if you can even link to the photo time line, but it's on the website if anyone wants to check it out. If you go to the news section on the website and then Yates Trial it is in the sidebar on the lefthand side, "History and timeline."

Rusty is not simple minded but I think he sees the world in very simple terms. That is perhaps why he had such a hard time dealing with Andrea's illness--mental illness is anything but simple or easily cured. His take on things just always seems so simplistic and so totally unaware or maybe uncaring of how people perceive him. Like when he reportedly said, "Andrea got two hours a week all to herself, but she usually chose to go grocery shopping then and take Mary with her."

Two hours a week pushing a cart through the supermarket and he thinks she's getting a break and having her needs met.

There is something not right with him and I don't know if he's, as a coworker of mine used to say so well, "Broken and cain't be fixed."

People with high intellect (and I don't know if Rusty qualifies or not) are sometimes socially retarded. They don't see things that are quite obvious to the rest of us. My husband is sometimes guilty of this and I have to remind him of things that most people just automatically know.