TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

[mickey2942]

Funny that I've lived there all my life and don't know about it. Course that was a very very long time ago! Maybe that's when they changed issued ammo to low caliber that was good for nothing.
I'm still interested in what her motive would be. I've heard speculated lovers quarrel, but I'm not seeing that. Lol. Loud music, I don't think so even though it can be annoying. So what could it be?
Maybe they had a previous run in at some of his protests. I hope there are more valid details revealed in the trial because there certainly aren't any now.

Now, that is interesting. And honestly, I don't think that BJ would have found AG attractive. She seems sort like a "Jodi Arias" type.

Not that I am any judge, and BJ would probably not tell his Mama everything about his life. But really, he seems like he was quite classy, and knew what he wanted. A side action with a crazy cop girl was probably not in his plan.

Did AG try to possibly intrest him? And he wasn't interested? I don't see her as really being interested in Mr. Jean as a partner.

A more likely scenario is that he probably played music too loud, or watched tv too loudly. She went up to complain, and just went crazy. Or, she was confused about what apartment she was at, and as "Security" for the complex, had a passkey, used it, and saw him in "her" apartment and shot him.

This is all speculation only.

 

[sloane7777]

Funny that I've lived there all my life and don't know about it. Course that was a very very long time ago! Maybe that's when they changed issued ammo to low caliber that was good for nothing.
I'm still interested in what her motive would be. I've heard speculated lovers quarrel, but I'm not seeing that. Lol. Loud music, I don't think so even though it can be annoying. So what could it be?
Maybe they had a previous run in at some of his protests. I hope there are more valid details revealed in the trial because there certainly aren't any now.

I think its a possibility that was her weed not his , and I think she was beyond reckless, either she did walk into the wrong apt or she was angry , either way , shes culpable in my book he was a good guy by all accounts and was on his own couch/ and even though she was off work , I consider it a police shooting as she was in uniform and it was an issued gun .....oh and that SM just shows how reckless/hostile she is.

 

[BeachSky]

Now, that is interesting. And honestly, I don't think that BJ would have found AG attractive. She seems sort like a "Jodi Arias" type.

Not that I am any judge, and BJ would probably not tell his Mama everything about his life. But really, he seems like he was quite classy, and knew what he wanted. A side action with a crazy cop girl was probably not in his plan.

Did AG try to possibly intrest him? And he wasn't interested? I don't see her as really being interested in Mr. Jean as a partner.

A more likely scenario is that he probably played music too loud, or watched tv too loudly. She went up to complain, and just went crazy. Or, she was confused about what apartment she was at, and as "Security" for the complex, had a passkey, used it, and saw him in "her" apartment and shot him.

This is all speculation only.

A witness heard her saying “let me in , let me in “
https://www.ebony.com/news/witness-...shouted-let-me-in-before-botham-jean-slaying/

What’s that all about?!

 

[sloane7777]

Yell me everyone has watched bunny's video up thread I think she s very credible and now she is very scared

 

[Lillymac]

I think its a possibility that was her weed not his , and I think she was beyond reckless, either she did walk into the wrong apt or she was angry , either way , shes culpable in my book he was a good guy by all accounts and was on his own couch/ and even though she was off work , I consider it a police shooting as she was in uniform and it was an issued gun .....oh and that SM just shows how reckless/hostile she is.

Being as I don't know either of them personally, I will reserve my opinions until they are opinions based on facts.

 

[Lillymac]

Now, that is interesting. And honestly, I don't think that BJ would have found AG attractive. She seems sort like a "Jodi Arias" type.

Not that I am any judge, and BJ would probably not tell his Mama everything about his life. But really, he seems like he was quite classy, and knew what he wanted. A side action with a crazy cop girl was probably not in his plan.

Did AG try to possibly intrest him? And he wasn't interested? I don't see her as really being interested in Mr. Jean as a partner.

A more likely scenario is that he probably played music too loud, or watched tv too loudly. She went up to complain, and just went crazy. Or, she was confused about what apartment she was at, and as "Security" for the complex, had a passkey, used it, and saw him in "her" apartment and shot him.

This is all speculation only.

I'm glad you qualified your opinion as 'speculation' only. ty

 

[sloane7777]

Being as I don't know either of them personally, I will reserve my opinions until they are opinions based on facts.

I said "possible " the other items in inventory were in her bag so.....

 

[Via Marple]

Here's hoping this thread won't get closed down, while the trial is finally happening!

 

[TristanP]

This case has shown me that there are some very deeply held beliefs that some people hold, that they may not even be aware of.

I’m not specifically referencing anyone here but having read various sites, I have seen many comments about how she was a “small white woman” and he was a “large black man” and she had every reason to be scared of him and afraid for her life. Obviously that’s a very charged accusation, but I’ve also seen she was a “small woman” and he was a “large man”, leaving the race out of it, but neither of those arguments is valid.

He was not threatening her in any way whatsoever so it didn’t matter how big or black or small or white either of them were. SHE entered HIS apartment unlawfully, and then proceeded to end his life.

There are many people who, even if armed, wouldn’t resort to shooting an intruder as their first reaction if they encountered someone in their home.

There are many people who, even if armed, have not shot intruders who have actually entered their home, whether they entered accidentally or for nefarious purposes.

It is my personal opinion that if HE had shot and killed HER upon her “accidental” entry into his apartment, many people would be outraged and vocal about how she didn’t present any thread to him and he should he convicted of murder and jailed for life or receive a death sentence.

 

[mickey2942]

This case has shown me that there are some very deeply held beliefs that some people hold, that they may not even be aware of.

I’m not specifically referencing anyone here but having read various sites, I have seen many comments about how she was a “small white woman” and he was a “large black man” and she had every reason to be scared of him and afraid for her life. Obviously that’s a very charged accusation, but I’ve also seen she was a “small woman” and he was a “large man”, leaving the race out of it, but neither of those arguments is valid.

He was not threatening her in any way whatsoever so it didn’t matter how big or black or small or white either of them were. SHE entered HIS apartment unlawfully, and then proceeded to end his life.

There are many people who, even if armed, wouldn’t resort to shooting an intruder as their first reaction if they encountered someone in their home.

There are many people who, even if armed, have not shot intruders who have actually entered their home, whether they entered accidentally or for nefarious purposes.

It is my personal opinion that if HE had shot and killed HER upon her “accidental” entry into his apartment, many people would be outraged and vocal about how she didn’t present any thread to him and he should he convicted of murder and jailed for life or receive a death sentence.

I wonder if that unconscious bias and projection is based on media presentation?

I am fortunate that I see this case as a crazy woman who walks into a man's house and starts shooting. That should scare every single person in the United States, if Amber Guyger is acquitted. It is basically a "license to kill" for every single LEO, regardless of the circumstances.

I definitely don't see this as a "Stand Your Ground" issue at all. If the jury instructions are to take the word of AG that she believed she was in her home, there is still the issue of what is a reasonable and prudent response, there were a lot of options AG had, including leaving and calling for backup.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I wonder if that unconscious bias and projection is based on media presentation?

I am fortunate that I see this case as a crazy woman who walks into a man's house and starts shooting. That should scare every single person in the United States, if Amber Guyger is acquitted. It is basically a "license to kill" for every single LEO, regardless of the circumstances.

I definitely don't see this as a "Stand Your Ground" issue at all. If the jury instructions are to take the word of AG that she believed she was in her home, there is still the issue of what is a reasonable and prudent response, there were a lot of options AG had, including leaving and calling for backup.

However, in Texas, you have NO duty to retreat. So if the defense can show she believed she was in her apartment, then they can show she had a reasonable belief she was in danger and therefore justified in shooting.

Yes of course this would be complete and total BS but these are the cards the defense is likely to play. IMO

 

[sloane7777]

I wonder if that unconscious bias and projection is based on media presentation?

I am fortunate that I see this case as a crazy woman who walks into a man's house and starts shooting. That should scare every single person in the United States, if Amber Guyger is acquitted. It is basically a "license to kill" for every single LEO, regardless of the circumstances.

I definitely don't see this as a "Stand Your Ground" issue at all. If the jury instructions are to take the word of AG that she believed she was in her home, there is still the issue of what is a reasonable and prudent response, there were a lot of options AG had, including leaving and calling for backup.

BBM No I think its based on reactions of real people , my co worker knowing nothing about the case basically said look at him and look at her I would have shot him too.....UGH! you just assumed didn't cha , but I'm with you after seeing her SM and hearing the 911 call I think she is crazy, and very insensitive/aggressive

 

[CrimeDawg123]

What to Know Before the Amber Guyger Murder Trial
Good recap

 

[Rocco]

I wonder if that unconscious bias and projection is based on media presentation?

I am fortunate that I see this case as a crazy woman who walks into a man's house and starts shooting. That should scare every single person in the United States, if Amber Guyger is acquitted. It is basically a "license to kill" for every single LEO, regardless of the circumstances.

I definitely don't see this as a "Stand Your Ground" issue at all. If the jury instructions are to take the word of AG that she believed she was in her home, there is still the issue of what is a reasonable and prudent response, there were a lot of options AG had, including leaving and calling for backup.

Texas' existing “Stand Your Ground” provision allows a person to use lethal force in self-defense with no duty to retreat when the person has the “right to be present at the location where the force is used.”

The key words are 'self defense'. She didn't have to defend herself against him because there's nothing to suggest he had a weapon or came at her in an aggressive manner. The evidence shows he was trying to get AWAY from her.

Plus, she had no right to be in the location where the force was used---even if she thought she did because she thought it was her apartment. Whose fault is it that she went into the wrong apt. by mistake? It's HER fault.

She, alone, is 100% responsible for killing an innocent man in his home. She murdered him and it was totally unnecessary. JMO

 

[sloane7777]

if they are granted a change of venue in either of those towns, we all know she is very likely to get off and if that happens I bet my left pinky toe that the rioting will be close to the OJ trial

 

[sloane7777]

Texas' existing “Stand Your Ground” provision allows a person to use lethal force in self-defense with no duty to retreat when the person has the “right to be present at the location where the force is used.”

She had no right to be present , no matter what she thought or where she thought she was !!! its pretty cut and dry, but we will see , I suspect she will be convicted but will do little time , if any .

 

[Via Marple]

BBM No I think its based on reactions of real people , my co worker knowing nothing about the case basically said look at him and look at her I would have shot him too.....UGH! you just assumed didn't cha , but I'm with you after seeing her SM and hearing the 911 call I think she is crazy, and very insensitive/aggressive

MOO I find that big/small argument laughable, maybe it plays into some people's long-time biases.

The small woman was a trained cop and she was supposed to deal with all sizes of people every day in her line of work. She was not an ordinary citizen. If she was scared of bigger guys, she should not have been a cop. IMO

 

[Rocco]

This case has shown me that there are some very deeply held beliefs that some people hold, that they may not even be aware of.

I’m not specifically referencing anyone here but having read various sites, I have seen many comments about how she was a “small white woman” and he was a “large black man” and she had every reason to be scared of him and afraid for her life. Obviously that’s a very charged accusation, but I’ve also seen she was a “small woman” and he was a “large man”, leaving the race out of it, but neither of those arguments is valid.

He was not threatening her in any way whatsoever so it didn’t matter how big or black or small or white either of them were. SHE entered HIS apartment unlawfully, and then proceeded to end his life.

There are many people who, even if armed, wouldn’t resort to shooting an intruder as their first reaction if they encountered someone in their home.

There are many people who, even if armed, have not shot intruders who have actually entered their home, whether they entered accidentally or for nefarious purposes.

It is my personal opinion that if HE had shot and killed HER upon her “accidental” entry into his apartment, many people would be outraged and vocal about how she didn’t present any thread to him and he should he convicted of murder and jailed for life or receive a death sentence.

When one of two people in a confrontation has a loaded and drawn gun, size, gender, race and age don't matter.

 

[SandyQLS]

( ...RSBM for focus...)

...The evidence shows he was trying to get AWAY from her. ...

I don't remember this^. iirc I thought the entrance wound was to his upper left torso indicating he was facing AG. Can you briefly recap what evidence shows that BSJ was trying to get away? TIA

 

[Rocco]

I don't remember this^. iirc I thought the entrance wound was to his upper left torso indicating he was facing AG. Can you briefly recap what evidence shows that BSJ was trying to get away? TIA

She shot at him twice---once from the entryway area and once from the kitchenette area which is located right after the entryway. That shows she was advancing on him.